Parents of adult DC's - can you help me please? Or even adult DC's who might recognise this dilemma?

[usernamesusedup]

I've namechanged and I will change some minor details here as I think former daugher in law may be on the site.

DS is 37 and is very, very unhappily SE in the construction industry (skilled trade). He and former DIL have young DS who they have 50/50 care of. DIL lives with her parents. DS has a flat he rents from a mate although this is not a permanent, long term thing it is working very well, it suits both of them (it is informal set up). DS and DIL (when they were together) spent long periods living either with her parents or with me.
There is long backstory but the essential dilemma for me is this:

DS has asked whether (in theory) I would let him move in with me if he gives up his job and his Plan B fails (his Plan B is something we go around and around in circles with; he wants to be Police Officer but has been turned down because he needs another A level so is in the process of applying for PCSO post. Recruitment is suspended currently so he is in limbo and still might not get in).

I have had a growing sense that this is where our many talks have been leading.
I responded honestly; that I would find that hard. My house is tiny and open plan, I use my spare room for working from home which is likely to be permanent arrangement after the pandemic has passed. So it all kind of went tits up at that point; DS saying he was just asking 'what if' but in my mind it wasn't like that because every time we get to a point whereby it looks like DS might help himself improve and expand his skill set (courses, etc) it goes back into "I just can't carry on in this job". He said that if the situation were reversed and I turned up at his door he would not hesitate to take me in. Although that scenario has not, and would never, happen, so I feel pretty defeated tbh.

I am 62 and I am tired, really tired. I have alot of responsibility at work, I am a carer for my DF and most of the time when I'm not working or doing something for DF or on his behalf I'm pretty much spent.

But - the upshot is (after he left with us both upset) I feel shitty.
I feel on the horns of a dilemma. He hasn't actually asked to move back in so there isn't an issue. But at the same time, there is.

So, I'm not sure what I'm asking for but anyone who has perhaps been in a similar situation, what did you do? What ideas do you have as to how I might position myself here? He's an adult, yes, but also my DS and I think I feel far too responsible for his life.

With your second latest update, there is absolutely no way I'd let him move in. It's clear that - consciously or unconsciously- you're being lined up to provide back up care for DGD whilst he lives rent free in your office.
I'd actually start being quite angry about this. You're still working and caring for your DF. Surely at the age of 37 he can come up with some job plan that allows him to fulfil his parental duties without dragging you into it.

If he’s not enjoying the part of the construction industry he’s working in - which sounds like he’s on big sites run by big companies - is there any chance of pivoting to a more customer focused kind of role? There’s loads of demand for skilled tradespeople to work in people’s homes and businesses. I’d have thought he could do quite well setting up on his own. He might need to do some more training depending what skills he’s got at the moment but he could do that part time and take part time site work to pay the bills?

Just a thought, but if he moved in with DGF might he be eligible for carers allowance?

Why can't he move into a rental property?

If he loses his job and gas to go into universal credit, he will receive the housing element of this, to cover his rent until he gets a new job.

I am 26 and my mum wouldnt ever be able to take me in. she has 3 other children who all live there so there is literally no space.

my opinion is hes an adult, and whilst it's nice to help if you can, if you dont feel able to then that is nothing to feel guilty about. I have been expected to stand on my own two feet since 16 and I like to think it has taught me to be resilient.

If he is so nervous of studying for the A level and learning to use IT I really don’t think the police is a good move for him. I think especially at 37 and with hearing issues.

Would he see a careers coach of some kind? And find an area that plays to his strengths. As @Budapestdreams suggested maybe train as a martial arts instructor. Or a personal trainer? He could maybe incorporate his mindfulness and meditation practices.

He should definitely explore a different career but not necessarily the police.

And I definitely don’t think you are unreasonable to not want him to live with you. Obviously you’d take him in in an emergency but this isn’t one.

I think it's worth exploring the idea of him living with DGF. Especially if he needs care, that way DS can be a useful adult and offer something in return for his free accommodation.

I wouldn't suggest it to him though I wouldn't necessarily be against it if he brought it up. He is 37 years old and presumably he has a relationship with his grandfather already - or doesn't he? My concern would be that immature as he seems, he might not be a suitable housemate/carer for someone vulnerable. But if he thought of it himself and his grandfather has capacity then that would be between the two of them, with the OP just keeping an eye on her father to make sure he's OK.

If he said he wanted to move in with you to raise some magic beans which would allow him to become an astronaut, would you feel guilty about saying no? Because that's what his plan to join the police force is, currently. You can best support him by making him understand that.

Has DS had his hearing problems medically investigated ? & diagnosed & improved ?

Surely that should be first on the to do list

I have adult dc and would say the same as you. It might be different (probably) if they lost a job, could afford rent, etc. But this isn’t the case here. He wants you to enable him to walk away from a job he doesn’t like and support him at detriment to you. Again it might be different if you had a bigger house , etc but you don’t.

He’s 37, not 21. If he wants to better himself he needs to do qualifications, etc at night college or part time distant learning while he works. Tough if he doesn’t like his job, plenty of people don’t but you can’t walk away and expect someone else to take responsibility for sorting it all out.

He’s not been fair to you.

@usernamesusedup

It's the construction industry itself that's hard, it's tough, there's alot of really dreadful discrimination, drugs, corruption you name it (is what he tells me). His hearing is damaged and very sensitive now to the noise. He is waiting for auditory assessment.

DD is a Police Officer. I'm wary of giving more details as I wish to remain as anonymous as possible.
I have pointed out how much work the training is, as has DD. She/we suggested he try the voluntary policing route whereby you stack up hours that way but DS thought he couldn't manage that. So I'm not sure what his thinking is about how he'd manage DGS care in the training; but he and DIL have very good relationship and there are often times she asks DS to have DGS on the odd extra evening or whatever.

Oof, this is really standing out to me. His sister is in the police, she's been completely open and honest with him about what it takes to join, he's not prepared to do any of that and yet he still persists in talking about the police? I'm more and more convinced he's stuck with a schoolboy dream. Counselling could resolve this and help him find a new goal to move forward with. But again, this has to come from him.

He might not even pass the police medical, I failed due to being badly short sighted. They may have similar hearing requirements.

I really do understand OP am too busy today but will reply tomorrow.💐

If he was in dire straits, I'm sure you'd take him in, but he's not, so it's fine to say no. He's 37 with a child!

You don’t have to have him at your home if you don’t want to, even if you had more room. I had to ask one of my adult children to leave my house (had agreed to take them back temporarily as a result of an emergency) but then they wanted to stay. I will never have them back to live with me and their dad. Yes there is a backstory, yes we still see them and yes we help financially but me and my DH are in agreement that we couldn’t have them living with us. I don’t think that makes us bad parents

A level aside (not to mention the policing access course that you had to discuss with the college because he couldn't be arsed) if your son suffers from anxiety and does not want to engage with IT, what makes him think that policing is the ideal career?
what does he do for childcare now - and would that continue to be viable when working shifts? - Assuming that he achieves a role in the police force.

Given everything you have described, I really think you have made the right decision and you should, hard though it is, banish all guilt from your own mind. You helping him may even stand in the way of him being independent, so it could have a negative impact on him. Without wishing to sound rude, if he really wanted to be in the police, he would be doing everything he needed off his own bat to get in to the police without your help. And if he "feels very anxious about studying, using IT, etc" I doubt police work is the right thing for him as the admin load is enormous. Yes to people retraining and making a different start in life but they have to do it themselves and at 37 dare I say he should be starting to look after you and his dgf , not the other way around!

Do you think it is possible your son might be depressed? A relationship ending, working in a job he hates as well as the stress of the pandemic may be taking its toll on his mental health. At difficult times many adults turn to their first secure base (often their mum) for emotional support but you can support him without him living with you again. That would be better for both of you and if you remember how you were at his age it might help you keep in mind that it is perfectly ok to do that. In terms of his working life, if he is looking to join the Police because he hates his current job rather than because it is something he really wants to do he may not get into a force so that could make things more difficult if he was in your home without any income and not going out each day. Could you suggest he volunteers to be a Special Constable (Volunteer police officer) in the first instance and that might help make things clearer? You will see how serious he is about it if he is willing to try that.
You have enough on working and looking after your dad and as your son hasn't asked to move back in you do not need to comment on this to him . You do not need to feel guilty as by encouraging his independence you are helping him more in the long term and you can spend time together, talk on the phone, help him make a plan, enjoy your grandchild.
Don't lose sight of how you have done your best and none of us will be around forever so it is kinder to him that you have some self-preservation. Take some time to do something other than looking after all and if you still struggle counselling is great for helping understand and manage those feelings. Good Luck!

Wow, at 37 he is definitely in charge of his own life.

I'm not suggesting you'd leave him out on the streets, but he is responsible for ensuring he doesn't make life choices that leave him homeless.

You clearly don't have space for him. You arent being unreasonable.

I think there's a difference between (temporarily) taking in a DC in an emergency situation and opening up your home for an indefinite period of time (including to DGC 50% of the time) because the DC has decided he doesn't want to be an adult anymore.

I'm your DS's age, and I'm unhappy with my job too. I'm retraining in my spare time, whilst holding down the job I don't enjoy because that's how I can afford to pay my bills whilst creating an exit route for myself. I think this is pretty normal for adults.

Working and studying at the same time is hard, but it reinforces a work ethic that is attractive to employers.

Saying you'll take him in is just giving him permission to fail. He needs to know that he's responsible for his own life and he needs to come up with his own Plan A, B, C and so on. It should give him more drive to actually see things through. Be there for him emotionally, but don't enable him to give up on hard work before he succeeds at it.

I think this is very much a situation where tough love applies.

I agree with you and PP that there is a massive difference between helping your adult children out of a ham, and them expecting to just live with you indefinitely.

I know my parents would never turn me away, but I also would never impose myself unless it was my only option and even then for as short a time as possible.

FWIW my DH joined the police 4 years ago. It was almost a year from him sending in the application to getting a start date, and the starting salary is very low, especially while completing the basic training, and if you don't pass the training, they don't keep you on.

YANBU
My dd is only 12. But by 37, your ds should be in charge of his life. I also wouldn’t suggest moving in with his GF. Your ds has an uncontrolled mental health condition, 50/50 care of his dc and your dad is vulnerable.

I’m 36 and I would say hold firm and say no. This is the business end of being an adult and making a career change is difficult (I’ve done it, with paying for a post grad education also without moving back in with mum and dad) and he needs to think and plan and take ownership of his life. He wants you to save the day and be the catch all. He’s in a dangerous position where he’s like ‘ THIS amazing new thing will be the thing that changes things for me!’ But in reality it’s his mindset that’s standing in his way.

I'm quite struck by his stubbornness in maintaining that his ambition is to be a policeman, alongside his stubbornness in insisting he cannot take any steps to move towards fulfilling his stated ambition.

Essentially, he wants it to be impossible. He knows he's never going to be a police officer. So why is he making you jump through hoops about it? He seems to prefer the fantasy of being in the police to making it reality. Why would someone want to set themselves up to fail? Purely a rhetorical question, I really have no idea - but it seems to me that that is what he is doing.

To be blunt, I think it's well past time for your son to stop fucking about, and to stop fucking you about. It's time to deal with what he has, not yearn for some heroic fantasy where he as police officer is Mr. Perfect and all his woes are no more. He's 37, with a son and a skilled trade. If he doesn't like where he's working he can take his skills elsewhere - to a smaller employer for example. He is not stuck (except in a rut, where mummy waves her magic wand and all is well in The Kingdom). Sorry to be so sarcastic, but FFS - he's 37!

"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got." In your case, you have always been supportive. You have always got a son who will not take responsibility for his own life. I think it's time you stopped being so supportive because it may be infantilising him. A 37 years-old father should not be asking mummy if he can chuck his job and move back in with her.

Something here needs to change, and I think you're the only one who can get that particular ball rolling by choosing a different response to your son.

Thank you all. I'm reading and nodding and thinking that actually I have been saying and doing all the things that are reasonable - I'm struck that all of your suggestions have been turned over and over with DS already and yet here I am turning to strangers in case I've missed something.

conversations about changing anything that could make his current trade more do-able or bearable
referral to auditory team made and suggestion of private assessment to get it done quickly. specific ear plugs for tinnitus bought.
conversations and internet searches about learning to learn in a fun, non challenging subject that's already an interest.
conversations about Specialling, PCSO's use of IT and other skills in Policing in 21st Century
Psychological help - private, NHS, range, goals, the whys and wherefore's of why and why not.

I don't really believe he has the temperament for policing. And a PP has suggested with his hearing issue and anxiety he might not pass a medical anyway and I really hadn't thought of that.

He is a really good tradesperson, meticulous in his work. That doesn't suit a construction site mentality or the big builders who want their houses built quickly. And dealing directly with customers as a private trader didn't work either . so he has to make a leap of faith and just take a first step out of his situation.