Parents of adult DC's - can you help me please? Or even adult DC's who might recognise this dilemma?

[usernamesusedup]

I've namechanged and I will change some minor details here as I think former daugher in law may be on the site.

DS is 37 and is very, very unhappily SE in the construction industry (skilled trade). He and former DIL have young DS who they have 50/50 care of. DIL lives with her parents. DS has a flat he rents from a mate although this is not a permanent, long term thing it is working very well, it suits both of them (it is informal set up). DS and DIL (when they were together) spent long periods living either with her parents or with me.
There is long backstory but the essential dilemma for me is this:

DS has asked whether (in theory) I would let him move in with me if he gives up his job and his Plan B fails (his Plan B is something we go around and around in circles with; he wants to be Police Officer but has been turned down because he needs another A level so is in the process of applying for PCSO post. Recruitment is suspended currently so he is in limbo and still might not get in).

I have had a growing sense that this is where our many talks have been leading.
I responded honestly; that I would find that hard. My house is tiny and open plan, I use my spare room for working from home which is likely to be permanent arrangement after the pandemic has passed. So it all kind of went tits up at that point; DS saying he was just asking 'what if' but in my mind it wasn't like that because every time we get to a point whereby it looks like DS might help himself improve and expand his skill set (courses, etc) it goes back into "I just can't carry on in this job". He said that if the situation were reversed and I turned up at his door he would not hesitate to take me in. Although that scenario has not, and would never, happen, so I feel pretty defeated tbh.

I am 62 and I am tired, really tired. I have alot of responsibility at work, I am a carer for my DF and most of the time when I'm not working or doing something for DF or on his behalf I'm pretty much spent.

But - the upshot is (after he left with us both upset) I feel shitty.
I feel on the horns of a dilemma. He hasn't actually asked to move back in so there isn't an issue. But at the same time, there is.

So, I'm not sure what I'm asking for but anyone who has perhaps been in a similar situation, what did you do? What ideas do you have as to how I might position myself here? He's an adult, yes, but also my DS and I think I feel far too responsible for his life.

@HoldontoOneMoreDay yes. It feels like we have not moved on from adolescence. But my life is marching on, not least because of my age, which I am very aware of.

@CookieMonsterMunch good well balanced advice.

@PegasusReturns

Whilst I’m not asking for the back story it is clearly influencing your decision so it’s very difficult to say.

I would let my DC live with me without a second thought but that is dependent on good relationships. It seems you don’t have one?

That’s really unfair. oP has given a full account of why it would simply not work for her. My DS has hinted at moving home with his girlfriend to save for a deposit and I cannot express how that makes my heart sink though we love him dearly.

@usernamesusedup your idea about your DF might work but honestly your DS does need to find these solutions for himself. He can learn how to study and learn how to gain new skills. Maybe offer to help him find his way with that?

I heard a great expression on here the other day: don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. I think this applies here.

NB also don’t absolutely rule out care homes in the future, same reason!

Being a police officer and taking care of children 50% of the time is really unrealistic. The demands of training, and shift patterns, are very high and not compatible with school and childcare routines.

Yes we talked (when I say we I mean me) to the local college who told us about their full time course into the police which DS can't afford to attend as it's full time. He'd have to pay for an A level (which he's entirely willing and able to do).

The information he needs has all been looked up (a good portion of it by him as well). It's his fear of failing that seems to get in the way of doing anything with it, that leads to the disaster scenario he presented me with yesterday.
What I probably meant but didn't articulate was that yes, of course, i'd never see any of my DC's homeless but that in his case there are many steps and possibilities before that which he just has not fully explored. And I don't want him to leap frog over them .

I wouldn't.
Your home is set up exactly as you need it. Throw in a grown man and a child for 50% of the week and it will eventually get you down. Really down.
You simply don't have the space to accommodate them.
It sounds like you have been very supportive in the past letting him and his wife live with you for periods of time so you shouldn't feel guilty.
It does sound like he is laying a guilt trip on you and instead of sorting his life out himself he is again expecting his mother to bend over backwards to help him.

we have explored the A level routes and yes, he "knows the options, feels very anxious about studying, using IT, etc. He knows it but I think he gets so anxious and negative that he can't hang on to making the next step for himself so we go around in circles."

First he needs to see a counsellor or therapist maybe cbt for few sessions to address anxiety and learn strategies to deal with life and IT

I think getting the extra A level is a must otherwise he is going to be stuck again wanting a job he can’t have.
Might be a silly question but why would getting an A level involve a lot of technology? A lot of things are available on YouTube to work through any problems.

Although I would think there was a lot of computer work if he did join the police.

Even if I lived in a studio flat I would house any child of mine that needed a roof over their heads as it is family.

Not familiar with the training for a police officer or how long it would take to get an A level but if he puts his mind to it would be a finite amount of time.
Does he have to do a particular A level or could he choose the easiest one for him and he can do it in 6 months.
Doesn’t his qualifications as a builder/plumber/etc not give him A level equivalents

It sounds like you have been discussing this for longer than it would take for him to have done it.

Has he thought about becoming a martial arts instructor?

You sound over involved in his life decisions. You both go back and forth about the police? Only he can go back and forth. You can listen and, if asked, offer suggestions but you both can't go back in forth. He probably needs a push to get out if teenager mode. I would tell him to go off and come up with a comprehensive plan and you will see if you can help. It's his plan though as it's his life.

I can see it’s difficult OP, and on the basis of your last update it isn’t that you wouldn’t help him in an emergency, just that you don’t want to end up with this as his primary choice-I can see how that could happen if he doesn’t want to continue in his current trade but for whatever reason he doesn’t want to/ can’t pursue the police angle successfully.

I can easily see him bouncing “home” as a safe option, saying it had to happen but you end up stuck very unhappy and no way out. I also agree it wouldn’t be best form him either as if he is anxious and stuck he’ll just end up hanging around at yours and never moving forward- this is clearly, and very reasonably, not what you want for your life.

To be honest I think you’ve done all you can, just hold the line that you love and support him, help him try to take the A level step, but that your home isn’t set up for 2 adults and a toddler and so moving in isn’t a practical option so he needs to work out a plan C if he is unhappy.

I’m an adult child over a mum a similar age to you. I have a stressful job that I am increasingly seeing I don’t want to do for the next 25 years and throwing my hands up and running away sometimes seems like an attractive option, but isn’t real and would be very hard to reverse out of? Good luck.

Is it the self employment part of his current sector or the construction field itself (or both or something else) that are making him so unhappy?

Was the police dream because of something specific about policing (e.g. Being part of a structured organisation) or more a case of trying to find any alternative to hang onto for a taste of hope?

The things he's already doing to manage his depression take a lot of effort and commitment - and are things MH services would suggest - so he hardly sounds lazy or like he's "not taking responsibility" . Meds are not a magic fix, don't work for everyone, and have limited usefulness for situational depression even where they do have an effect for that individual.

I can see it is difficult to say no if your son and grandson have previously lived with you in your current house. The working from home might make a difference. As your grandson gets older it is important that your son has a proper home for him and is in employment that fits round childcare. How will the shift and weekend work that policing involves tie in with 50/50 care ? Is it correct that he wants to move in with you if he becomes unemployed due to chucking in his present employment and failing to get into the police? That sounds really worrying. He can't have a plan that involves this. It isn't a plan. It's just giving up. Could he move in with your father to act as his carer?

His qualification is equivalent to 1 A level and he needs another.
Yes, you're quite right, the time we've gone over this he could've got an A level!!

Yep, have suggested he needs therapy, I hadn't thought of saying I would help pay for it; he can afford to pay for it and therapy is something that the person should take complete responsibility for in my view. He had some CBT a while ago, which I think he still uses.

Maybe he could develop his martial arts a bit more yes. He's extremely fit and has a healthy lifestyle, no alcohol, drugs junk food etc.

So if you have a small 2 bed and your spare room is your wfh office, where would he be expecting to sleep?

On the sofa?

And now temporary would it be? How much rent would he be proposing to pay you?

He's a grown up. You can't always just quit your job because you don't like it. You find a new job and only then leave your previous job.

I don't understand why he needs an A level to get in - if he had done that at 18 it would have been 19 years ago and not much use now.

If he did come back and worked full time, you'd be left to look after his child, wouldn't you? While I'm sure the odd bit of babysitting is fine, you are 62, working full time and caring for your dad. You could easily find yourself having to take your GC to school and back and look after them before and afterwards, on top of your job.

Your son is not realistic about his career prospects. I understand he doesn't like his job but can't he switch to a different employer? You said he was SE - do you mean self-employed and working on contracts? What was his training?

He's 37 and he should be taking responsibility for his own life now.

@usernamesusedup

Yes we talked (when I say we I mean me) to the local college who told us about their full time course into the police which DS can't afford to attend as it's full time. He'd have to pay for an A level (which he's entirely willing and able to do).

The information he needs has all been looked up (a good portion of it by him as well). It's his fear of failing that seems to get in the way of doing anything with it, that leads to the disaster scenario he presented me with yesterday.
What I probably meant but didn't articulate was that yes, of course, i'd never see any of my DC's homeless but that in his case there are many steps and possibilities before that which he just has not fully explored. And I don't want him to leap frog over them .

You questioned in an earlier post why it's always you he turns to. Maybe things like this are a factor:

Yes we talked (when I say we I mean me)

Is he the kind of person where if he feels like he's got a decent plan for what to do in the disaster scenario he will feel secure enough to take the "risk" of going ahead with Plan A to try and change things? It is a natural human reaction to search for safety when taking a risk. Is that what he's trying to do here rather than your assumption that he is about to give up and leap straight to the disaster plan?

I know a few people that have changed career
All of them have been 1000% determined to get to their end goal & have been successful

I don't understand why he & his child need to live with you to achieve the change in career

If you are in UK look at info
Nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/police-officer

I think it's worth exploring the idea of him living with DGF. Especially if he needs care, that way DS can be a useful adult and offer something in return for his free accommodation.
Don't let him move in as it sounds like it would be very negative for you. He's 37, there are other jobs than the one he is currently doing and one that requires a qualification. He perhaps needs to be told that whilst ideally a job is something you want to do, as an adult your primary responsibility is to support yourself and your dependants.

Why would he give up his job? He hasn’t even been accepted as a PCSO never mind for police training.

It's the construction industry itself that's hard, it's tough, there's alot of really dreadful discrimination, drugs, corruption you name it (is what he tells me). His hearing is damaged and very sensitive now to the noise. He is waiting for auditory assessment.

DD is a Police Officer. I'm wary of giving more details as I wish to remain as anonymous as possible.
I have pointed out how much work the training is, as has DD. She/we suggested he try the voluntary policing route whereby you stack up hours that way but DS thought he couldn't manage that. So I'm not sure what his thinking is about how he'd manage DGS care in the training; but he and DIL have very good relationship and there are often times she asks DS to have DGS on the odd extra evening or whatever.

You can self refer for NHS CBT through IAPT more than once.

I do agree with you that decisions about whether they are able and it being the right time to undertake therapeutic work have to be made by the individual.

@user113424742258631134 YES quite possibly he is. And I missed it.

Your DS is an adult. Sure, you would take him in if he was destitute and had no other options. What parent wouldn't? But now he is responsible for his own future and it is high time he made his own decisions and his own way, relying on his own resources and not yours.

I can't tell you how painful it is to keep on trying to listen, respond, make suggestions so that he's got a starting point to change his life and his job - only to feel like it bounces off him.

If he is still doing this at 37, then he will keep on doing it as long as you let him. You are trying to be a good Mum but you are actually enabling his problems. He is old enough to see his own GP about his own anxiety issues. He is old enough to contact colleges himself. It is time for you as a good Mum to stop solving his problems for him.

When he says that "he would do it for you" he is in effect accusing you of not loving him enough to do it, and that is a very manpulative thing to say. Loving someone doesn't mean solving all their problems for them! You have more than enough on your plate already.

If his mental health problems are so serious that he can't do very basic things for himself (like contact a college, use IT) then you need to let him experience for himself how bad it is so he can start to see that his mindfulness isn't working and he needs to stir himself to get proper help. And find his own direction. You can't live his life for him.

If I'd already been left with a permanent disability by my job I can imagine I would feel pretty hopeless and overwhelmed, and may well struggle to find a path into a less damaging but completely unfamiliar role as a result.

Even before factoring in the other toxic aspects you've mentioned.

Hearing damage is not an insignificant loss to be grieving and trying to accept at 37.