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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

American man can’t go on honeymoon due to unpaid child maintenance

199 replies

SinkGirl · 22/04/2021 15:45

Stumbled across this in a group on Facebook - newlyweds can’t go on honeymoon as he has $2500 of unpaid child support which in his state means he can’t get a passport.

I think this is bloody brilliant. And wonder why we don’t do it here. AIBU?

YABU - unpaid child support shouldn’t prevent you getting a passport
YANBU - if you owe lots of child maintenance, you shouldn’t be able to get a passport / driving license etc

Slightly concerned that his new bride is so unconcerned by the fact she’s marrying a deadbeat - good luck to her in the future, I think she will need it.
(apparently this person’s profile showed a very expensive wedding too!)

OP posts:
ForThePurposeOfTheTape · 23/04/2021 11:01

@Loveacoseynightin

You could argue if mothers are receiving benefits for child related issues why is the man being penalised twice.

He is paying his taxes and then having to pay maintenance to the mother. No wonder mothers are raking it in lol

It later as low as £0 if NRP becomes a student or SAHP to his children with new partner and £7pw if they are in benefits. Hardly raking it in
ForThePurposeOfTheTape · 23/04/2021 11:08

CMS should be directly linked to HMRC and everything should be joined up so accounts as well as PAYE can be used.

Yes If you tell CMS you earn £150pw then you shouldn't be able to get a loan, mortgage or rental agreement based on an income that's much higher.

ForThePurposeOfTheTape · 23/04/2021 11:09

This sounds like a typical bitter woman post.

What about the kids or don't they matter?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 23/04/2021 11:32

CMS should be directly linked to HMRC and everything should be joined up so accounts as well as PAYE can be used.

Yes If you tell CMS you earn £150pw then you shouldn't be able to get a loan, mortgage or rental agreement based on an income that's much higher.

Joined up thinking! Get a grip!!

In reality that wouldn't be too hard to do. A note on your credit file would be a start!

But that would be deemed far too Draconian, too nasty to the poor old NRP, male or female.

TurquoiseLemur · 23/04/2021 11:50

@Devlesko

Yes, we should have the same system here. Fewer men would be sewing their seeds with the next, and the next etc. Fewer women would fall for the useless disney dads, or "My ex wife was a psycho", type. Boris would be skint though. having to pay for half of London.
Exactly.

Scary that half of London was even interested in the first place, though. Eugh.

Original poster
SinkGirl · 23/04/2021 13:20

@Loveacoseynightin

You could argue if mothers are receiving benefits for child related issues why is the man being penalised twice.

He is paying his taxes and then having to pay maintenance to the mother. No wonder mothers are raking it in lol

Could you argue that? You’d have to be a bit of a twat to argue that wouldn’t you?

If I were out of work and on benefits, my DH would have to pay towards the care of his children. Why should that be different if we divorced? He fathered them. He is financially responsible for them, as am I. We pay taxes and pay to support our kids and it’s never once occurred to me to think this is somehow unfair.

I find it so weird when people think funding your own children is some sort of burden to be avoided. It’s not a game or an ideological argument - it’s your childrens’ wellbeing. What kind of scumbag doesn’t think it’s worth paying to support the children they created?

And raking it in? Don’t be ridiculous. I don’t know a single person who receives even close to half the cost of raising their children in maintenance.

OP posts:
UhtredRagnarson · 23/04/2021 13:21

Good. How can he afford a honeymoon if he can’t afford to feed his child?

Loveacoseynightin · 23/04/2021 13:24

@UhtredRagnarson

Good. How can he afford a honeymoon if he can’t afford to feed his child?
What if the Wife had paid for the honeymoon though?
UhtredRagnarson · 23/04/2021 13:25

That’s what I’m asking, how did afford the honeymoon. Wife paying for it would be an answer. Did she?

Loveacoseynightin · 23/04/2021 13:29

@SinkGirl Surely child maintenance should be included when applying for benefits then?

Why should the RP gain benefits relating to children, child maintenance etc if they have a father etc

But ultimately there is no fair system when it comes to Child Maintenance. Surely the debt owed should go to the child and not the mother but I bet it doesn't

Rummikub · 23/04/2021 13:35

It should f be included in benefits system
It’ll lead to increased poverty

UhtredRagnarson · 23/04/2021 13:36

Surely child maintenance should be included when applying for benefits then?

Why should the RP gain benefits relating to children, child maintenance etc if they have a father etc

Currently child maintenance is not counted when applying for benefits because CM is not a reliable form of income as the government refuse to enforce payment. This means a parent can be receiving it one week and not the next, then getting it again, then half of it the week after. If their benefits had to be adjusted to account for that every time it changed they would be forever waiting on a new assessment. People, and children would starve. Literally.

UhtredRagnarson · 23/04/2021 13:38

Surely the debt owed should go to the child and not the mother but I bet it doesn't

The debt should go to whoever made up the shortfall when the NRP failed to pay. In most cases the child is not paying for their own upkeep when their NRP fails. It’s usually the RP who makes up the difference so any debt is to to them.

Longdistance · 23/04/2021 13:39

I think we should do it here, but with debt collectors. It should be a debt that is owed like when you haven’t paid your mortgage or gas bill.

IbrahimaRedTwo · 23/04/2021 13:40

Surely the debt owed should go to the child and not the mother but I bet it doesn't

Don't be stupid. Who do you think supported the child alone while the dad couldn't be fucked?

UhtredRagnarson · 23/04/2021 13:43

I think CM should be assessed as a minimum amount for every child- the way child benefit is calculated and that’s the minimum NRP owes, even if on benefits, adjusted for overnights, and on a sliding scale according to income and if it isn’t paid, the government pay it and the NRP owes the government. That way the RP would be guaranteed £X amount as a minimum every month in child support and then it could be counted in benefit applications.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 23/04/2021 13:44

It used to be included in benefits to reduce the costs to tax payers, if paid direct it was upto the parent to disclose it.

I do think it should be recouped though to ensure parents do the supporting not others. Less would likely opt out of they knew if had to be paid back. There must be lots of ways to go with it rather than the current system.

JustLyra · 23/04/2021 13:46

[quote Loveacoseynightin]@SinkGirl Surely child maintenance should be included when applying for benefits then?

Why should the RP gain benefits relating to children, child maintenance etc if they have a father etc

But ultimately there is no fair system when it comes to Child Maintenance. Surely the debt owed should go to the child and not the mother but I bet it doesn't [/quote]
You do realise that used to be the system, right?

First it counted as income so was deducted from benefits.

Then it was decided that RP’s on benefits should keep £20 a week of maintenance and everything else was owed to the Sec of State to go toward the welfare bill.

Then when the money owed to the SoS built to an unacceptable level they decided something had to be done... so they said RP’s on benefits could just keep it

Rummikub · 23/04/2021 13:47

@Rummikub

It should f be included in benefits system It’ll lead to increased poverty
Typos It should not be included for benefits

As pp said it’s far too unreliable

Resulting in Increased poverty.

Loveacoseynightin · 23/04/2021 13:51

@UhtredRagnarson

I think CM should be assessed as a minimum amount for every child- the way child benefit is calculated and that’s the minimum NRP owes, even if on benefits, adjusted for overnights, and on a sliding scale according to income and if it isn’t paid, the government pay it and the NRP owes the government. That way the RP would be guaranteed £X amount as a minimum every month in child support and then it could be counted in benefit applications.
Maybe the CMS should calculate the child maintenance like child benefit so for two children would be like 130 a month.

Then maybe more of the "feckless fathers" would pay and this would then also sharpen the minds in terms of contact instead of the current system

JustLyra · 23/04/2021 13:51

Surely the debt owed should go to the child and not the mother but I bet it doesn't

Well, if the child fed, clothed, shod, housed and covered their own bills then yes, absolutely it should go to them.

However, since most children don’t then it’s owed to the person who covered the non-payers share

Londonmummy66 · 23/04/2021 14:05

The travesty is that CMS have a large swathe of powers. They just don’t use them.

Perhaps its time for someone to take them to judicial review to force them to use their powers instead of writing the debt off.

Jackparlabane · 23/04/2021 14:47

From @nickymanchester's post it sounds like the CMS might finally be using some of its powers, though it's disturbing how.many cases needed its powers to be used. It's also worrying how much of a backlog there is in the courts atm and how little appetite there seems to be to speed up legal cases of all sorts - having to wait years for a case to come to court is not justice!

There's so much more that could be done to change perceptions of feckless non-paying parents. Refusing to let them remarry would be an option - I suppose the actual legalities would be deemed a human right, but registry offices and pretty churches could refuse to let their large attractive rooms be used by anyone who isn't up to date with child support.

What if the National Lottery added a clause that anyone with an outstanding CMS claim couldn't claim a win? The Lottery is supposed to be in the public interest, after all.

If all mortgage and loan companies contacted the CMS for confirmation of someone's alleged income and outgoings, that would be a good start.tt.

Rummikub · 23/04/2021 15:05

Not all child maintenance goes through cms though

cheerfulpanda · 23/04/2021 15:23

A friend of mine went to get her marriage license in the US.
The clerk pointed out her groom had $$$ of unpaid child support in another state. She didn’t even know he had a child! He’d just fled for a new life.

The man was a CEO of a mid-sized tech company. He could easily afford it! She cancelled the wedding and left him.

I actually agree with the US on this. If you can afford a passport and a holiday, you can provide for your child.