American man can’t go on honeymoon due to unpaid child maintenance

[SinkGirl]

Stumbled across this in a group on Facebook - newlyweds can’t go on honeymoon as he has $2500 of unpaid child support which in his state means he can’t get a passport.

I think this is bloody brilliant. And wonder why we don’t do it here. AIBU?

YABU - unpaid child support shouldn’t prevent you getting a passport
YANBU - if you owe lots of child maintenance, you shouldn’t be able to get a passport / driving license etc

Slightly concerned that his new bride is so unconcerned by the fact she’s marrying a deadbeat - good luck to her in the future, I think she will need it.
(apparently this person’s profile showed a very expensive wedding too!)

@Thepennyhasdroppedq

This sounds like a typical bitter woman post.

Expecting men to pay for the babies they help create is bitter? Yea OK then.

I 100% agree with this policy! I'm happily married to the father of my children so I have no axe to grind. I think it's disgraceful how men have children and then walk away from the financial responsibility. For every 'but what about women who get pregnant deliberately?' If the man used a condom every time i.e. took responsibility for his own contraception it would be a very rare 'but she tricked me' scenario. And the majority of cases 'men dodging their responsibilities' would be dealt with effectively.

Women bloody should be "bitter" (aka fucking angry) with men who piss off and couldn't give a shit if their kids starve. Only a deadbeat dad or a woman who's with one would disagree.

CMS should be directly linked to HMRC and everything should be joined up so accounts as well as PAYE can be used.

There should be severe consequences for those that won’t pay - I believe I said on a similar thread that it should be as severe as non payment of council tax, where items can be seized and CCJs can be given.

It’s a travesty how non-payment is treated in this country.

@Thepennyhasdroppedq

This sounds like a typical bitter woman post.

Ah, classic misogyny.

I’m not bitter in the least. I have no reason to be bitter. I have two children with DH, we’ve been married over ten years, neither of us had been married previously, neither of us had any previous children. I’ve never had to worry about child maintenance, or how I’m going to provide for my children - we aren’t wealthy by any means but we are okay for money and don’t have any money worries. What would I have to be bitter about?

What I have is empathy, for all the single mothers I know and speak to. Two of the single mothers I know well are currently each bringing up two disabled children alone and with no support at all from their exes, who’ve left them entirely in the shit and are now running around without a care in the world. It’s a fucking disgrace.

Conversely, both DH and I were brought up by single mothers, until they each remarried, had another child and both got divorced again. Both of our mothers slogged their guts out to ensure we were housed, clothed and fed, working full time, while our useless fathers did all they could to get out of supporting us, financially or otherwise. Both of our fathers were also abusive, to their children and to their wives / partners. Not a coincidence that neither of us have any contact with our fathers, who’ve never met our children and never will. I’ve never met DH’s father, he’s never met mine.

The amount of additional stress both of our mothers endured, trying to get maintenance from men who didn’t give a shit about their kids unless it suited them, was awful. And if women going through this now feel “bitter” about it, that would be the right reaction wouldn’t it? I would be furious.

As for “you need a passport or DL to get a job”, bullshit. There’s no legal requirement to have these things (I don’t have a driving license and I went quite a few years without a passport when one expired and I didn’t need another for a while). You can prove your identity in other ways - I provided a birth certificate and proof of address for a job at that time, same for when I rented a flat. You can’t be required to produce a document that you may not have and that costs money to procure.

Hahahaha love it. He's a moron and his new wife is no better. They deserve it.

Wait, it looks like the screenshots didn’t upload - that’s a bummer, they are quite incredible. Shame I can’t edit the original post!

I think its awesome. I got child support here and I know from experience they take no excuses. My exh was told to get another job when he took me back to court for a reduction after he retired. Judge told him 52 was too young to retire, his kids were going off to college and he was going to support them.
I used to talk to an old dude in the smoke shed at work who was late 70s and was still working full time and being paid cash because he had worked cash in hand when he was younger to dodge child support so when he reached state pension age, they took his past due amount from that. His "kids" were in their 40s at this point and he was still paying off his debt. If he wasnt being paid cash they would have taken his salary too.
It shocks me to the core when I read how crap the system over there is and how easily people can dodge paying.

@JackieTheFart

CMS should be directly linked to HMRC and everything should be joined up so accounts as well as PAYE can be used.

There should be severe consequences for those that won’t pay - I believe I said on a similar thread that it should be as severe as non payment of council tax, where items can be seized and CCJs can be given.

It’s a travesty how non-payment is treated in this country.

The travesty is that CMS have a large swathe of powers. They just don’t use them.

How many non payers do you know had a sum of money just taken from their bank account? CMS can do that without even going to court!

What about a charge on their house? They can get a liability order for that.

The powers are there. They’re just not bothered to use them

@JustLyra fucking hell really?! I didn’t know that. Outrageous.

Excellent public policy. Here in Australia they don’t deny you a passport but the Department of Human Services can impose a travel ban on you if you have unpaid child support.
www.divorcehub.com.au/child-support/

And no, I am not a bitter woman. I am not a single parent and do not collect child support but I have a whole lot of empathy for all the women who do but are continually messed around by deadbeat dads!

@phoenixrosehere

I’m even more extreme, I think we should lock them up

Then how would they pay for child support?

My relative was locked up. (Georgia) They were made redundant and a couple of months behind with child support. It had always been paid on time for years. It's always been paid since. Genuinely lost job and had no income and was sofa surfing. OTOH, my ex got away with 14 years of not paying over here. Pulled all kinds of stunts to get out of paying. Went on to have another family, bought a house etc whilst his other dc with me went without.

[quote JackieTheFart]@JustLyra fucking hell really?! I didn’t know that. Outrageous.[/quote]
Yep. They have a whole host of powers.

However, without going to court they can take money from a bank account (either a one off or regular thing) or issue a DEO to employers.

Then if they went for a liability order they can - and this is just off the top of my head so I may have missed some and it’s a couple of years since my very brief stint working there - put a charge on a house, go after possessions fo sell and up to applying to have their driving license revoked or a prison sentence (which still doesn’t wipe the debt)

Instead they send letters and more letters. And more letters still.

Bloody brilliant. One area I wish we would copy America on.

The UK child support CSS or CSA or CMS or whatever they are calling themselves with a new improved version are useless. I tried to get them to "track down" my ex in the UK, through the official channels here in the USA. The USA agency did its part and then the UK agency claimed they couldn't locate him. I had given them: his name, his national insurance number, his address, the title deed to the apartment where he lives, the reg #'s of his van and car, a copy of his driver license and passport, his mobile number and his effing website where all the above is listed. And I confirmed that they had all these documents. Not a penny did I get, while every 3 months he's gallivanting around Mauritius with his new wife and posting pictures on social media of all the jewelry he's bought and the drugs he's done with the money that's supposed to feed and clothe and house his children. Not one of his children still talk to him.....

Oh yes, I even gave them his bank account details.

Where I live (Middle East) as you go through passport control to leave the country at the airport, any outstanding fines you owe are flagged. You go to the police counter to pay them, or you don't get on your flight. It seems like a good system.

@JustLyra
How many non payers do you know had a sum of money just taken from their bank account? CMS can do that without even going to court!

You asked this very same question on Wednesday and I gave you the full answer then. Or have you forgotten?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/stepparenting/a4212995-Does-anyone-here-believe-CMS-should-take-into-account-a-step-parents-earnings-and-if-so-why?msgid=106292072#106292072

But, in 2018 there were 2,200 Lump Sum Deduction Orders which collected a total of £4.1 million (an average of £1,860 each). The same figures for 2019 were 2,800 orders and a total of £6 million collected (an average of £2,140 each). That's straight out of the bank accounts of NRPs.

Then, when it comes to DEOs, at the end of 2019 there were 50,200 people subject to DEOs of whom 41,100 (82%) were compliant and paying £110 million per year.

Going further, when it comes to liability orders, over 10,000 were granted in 2019 and 8,800 cases were referred to enforcement agents. Between these two they brought in £7.8 million of payments.

Then when it comes to going to court they only have the figures for the last 6 months of 2019.

During that time - just six months - there were 197 suspended prison sentences made (where the NRP was told that if they did not pay then they would go to prison).

There were also 6 cases of people actually going to prison for not paying.

@nickymanchester I was asking a poster a question...

You made your disagreement with my views clear in the other thread. No need to follow round and jump on my posts.

CMS are, in my experience of having worked for them, shite and the number of times the measures have been used is a drop in the ocean

You’re entitled to your opinion that they’re doing a great job, have a bit of respect for my right to disagree.

Thepennyhasdroppedq
This sounds like a typical bitter woman post

Oh look, a misogynist! Why do you think men shouldn’t have to pay for the children they create? Is it ok for women to stop too, and let their kids starve?

You could argue if mothers are receiving benefits for child related issues why is the man being penalised twice.

He is paying his taxes and then having to pay maintenance to the mother. No wonder mothers are raking it in lol

I do like the dutch system for this. Paying parent has the opportunity to pay the other parent. If it is late the receiving parent can lodge a query with the government. I think if it is paid late 3 or more times the government pays the child support, the government then pursues the paying parent for that money. This makes it very clear for the family court too

@Loveacoseynightin

You could argue if mothers are receiving benefits for child related issues why is the man being penalised twice.

He is paying his taxes and then having to pay maintenance to the mother. No wonder mothers are raking it in lol

Paying tax is not remotely the same as paying for your kids. Nor is paying for your kids being penalised

that's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time.

@Angrypregnantlady

If you can't afford to pay for your kids then you can't afford a holiday 👍

This^

@Justkeepleft

I do like the dutch system for this. Paying parent has the opportunity to pay the other parent. If it is late the receiving parent can lodge a query with the government. I think if it is paid late 3 or more times the government pays the child support, the government then pursues the paying parent for that money. This makes it very clear for the family court too

This is a better system. My concern With the US system would be that without a safety net it could leave gaps in household income. NRP could just stop paying and if a claim for benefits needs to be made then there’ll be a delay of weeks causing potential hardship. At least the govt benefits are reliable once set up. I think the CMS rates are a joke. A minimum.