to not beleive that a women not breast feed is selfish and using 'i couldnt' as an excuse?

[aleciawalton]

im a mum of 1 who bf till 15 months, and now pregnant with second and will bf. i also am a breast friend and took training to support mums who are bfeeding. ( learned how milk is produced, history, attachment...)

i just think that too many women use 'i couldnt bf' as an excuse. its only been in the last 50 to 60 years bottles and formula have been around. what happened back then??? did more then 50% of the babys die? no cuase back then 99% women breast fed! why could they do it then and not now???
i just feel it a cop out and the mums are just being selfish.
yes its hard, but so was labour, so raising a kid. however they choise to have the baby. i know it takes time and comittment and not having that all important wine drink. but i personaly think that its for how long??? if i can give my child the best start and yes it can take a year or 2 but is my child not worth it??
if some one said to you while prego you have a choise to either have your baby and make your child as healthy as it can be or just have the baby, what would you want? why do we give the baby vitamine K, if not to help the baby be healthy. would you not get your baby vaccinated?

sorry just makes me mad. when i hear my nipples hurt and thats cant be normal so i stopped. or babys 3 weeks old and wanted feeding all the time so it ment i didnt have enough milk so i stopped. or there's a xmas party i want to go to so im not going to bf. the exuces go one. i really love the one 'bf is not natural, its disusting'. WTF were breast made for then and why does milk come out of them???

Only read the original post but it's women like this who made me feel like a failure.

I refuse to go into the reasons I only breast fed for a short time for you as you clearly think I'm a selfish bitch for stopping, but if you are interested in finding out about legitimate reasons, it'll be somewhere on MN.

In my honest opinion you should not be a breast-friend - you are not supportive at all. Grrr - this is the closest I have ever come to telling someone to go forth and multiply on MN!

ANd actually artificial feeding has been around for waaay longer than 50-60 years there is a whole website that someone with an interest has made about it and shoes bottles and things through the ages.

Ah! Looks like ms walton has left the building.

Oh, dear God...

Have only read OP.

Will read rest of thread later.

But AW, you're a peer supporter, I take it? What support do you feel you offer, with the smug, blinkered views you hold?

alecia, I have said time and again my dream would be for every woman out there to try to breastfeed, just try, and if they can't do it then they can't do it, and should be incredibly proud of themselves in this day and age, with a society in which breastfeeding is not the norm, to have given it a go.

The women that say it is disgusting sadden me, because it shows what has happened to our society as a whole that breasts are seen as a sexual part of a womans body rather than what they are actually meant to do.

I was unable to bf my DD as she was born eight weeks prem and fed through a tube for the first three weeks, my milk never really came in at all, and the little bit that did I wasn't able to establish well enough to express properly and then feed my daughter when I was finally allowed to take her out of her incubator.

I'm sure if enough of us on here questioned the way you bring up your DC's we could find something which we believed was 'selfish' and not the best way to do it.

There are so many choices for us to make when we have a baby, breastfeeding is just one of them, do we use reusable nappies or disposable?breast or bottle? co-sleep or own cot? our room or own room? demand feeding or timed? continuum concept?spock?truby king??
Every decision we make has to be based on our knowledge, and what support is available to us. Judging people who are probably kicking themselves through misplaced guilt is not the way to encourage people.

I personally think you should stop being a 'breastfriend' until your attitude has changed and you have done more research, if you were to have told me that I was selfish when I was desperate to feed my tiny baby that I wasn't even sure would live I probably would have punched you in the face, so for your own safety, stay away from breastfeeding mothers.

I am not even going to explain why I "couldn't" breastfeed - though just let me say that 5 months on I can still be in tears thinking about it and the original post on this thread was enough to set me off again -thanks a bunch!

But after reading all the responses and stories from other Mums who "couldn't" it has given me comfort.

I don't agree with aleciawalton but I think we should have some sympathy for her as she may be having a few probs at the moment. We all say stupid things sometimes - at least I know I do.

Before formula was invented I believe they fed non-breastfed babies carnation milk. That's what happened to my spritely, healthy 90 year old Great Aunt who it clearly didn't really do any harm to. But then, she's also smoked 60 a day most of her life so I suspect she's a medical miracle !

(Disclaimer: I am by no means suggesting you feed babies carnation milk, was just setting the OP straight on this point !)

I just deeply hope that she didn't make the same ' mistake' as say the same patronising smug things to a woman who was struggling to BF.

Had she said the same things to me when I was struggling to bf I would have wanted to smother her with a breast pad and shove the nipple cream to a place where the sun seldom shines

I am surprised the OP thinks the fact that women have more choices about their lives now than they did 50-60 years ago is a bad thing.

I also think that the 'training to support mums who are breastfeeding' ought to have covered a little more about the reality of life with a newborn.

I think there is a great danger when narrow minded, barely-trained, evangelical 'volunteers' put pressure on mothers.

I am hoping that this thread will encourage the OP to consider whether she has the required personal skills to carry out the role she has chosen.

Because she may cause a great deal of damage without understanding the many issues surrounding the feeding of a young baby.

And someone may very well punch her roundly on the nose just for using the word "prego", or discussing "that all important wine drink".

A bit shocked you are a "breast friend". More like breast fiend.

I am like you, easily bf my first (and now 2nd) baby for 17 months. In dd's case, she was a SCBU baby.

But I will be the first to admit that I am the worst person to give bf-ing advice - as I did not encounter problems myself. Have a little humility and empathy.

You sound completely unsuitable for the role you purport to do.

YABU, you don't know the Circumstances of every woman and her decision.
your body/child, your choice.

Is this a real post or part of Channel 4 commissioned reality show?

I BF exclusively for 3 weeks but it wasn't the sore nipples or the pain when dd fed that was a problem, that I could have coped with. It was the 24hr pain.

I couldn't sleep, I couldn't touch my own breasts and and if I accidently brushed against something it was agony, even getting dressed was painful. I had treatment for thrush and mastitis but it still hurt. I managed to mix feed for a further 5 weeks and then stopped and I am very happy with how far I got.

I would just like to also add in reference to you statement on what happened 50 or 60 years ago, well women couldn't always BF then. My grandmother who is 94 could not BF my father who is 63 but he is OK so she must have fed him on something - I will have to find out.

is this the breastfeeding nazi everyone keeps talking about?

i do support all the women i know to do what they feel they have to do. what is beast for them. i have more non breast feeding friends then breast feeding ones. i have ones that mix feed. i know bf can be very hard and not every one FEELS they can do it. i know woem who have with premies even 16 weeks early. ones who had cesections and didnt see baby for 24 hours, ones that had to have surgury later, ones whose nipples went black, bleed, got sores, mastitis (more then once), had no support or even had some one give baby bottle with out them knowing. i personaly had nipples went black, bleed, got sores, mastitis (more then once), had no support and cried in pain and wanted to stop and had my MIL telling me how gross i was for doing it. i know it can be very hard.

however this is how i feel. being a good peer supporter means i dont put my veiws on the situation when suporting others. does not mean that i can not have a personal feeling about the subject.

do you think a councilor or doctor or social work may have a feeling about a situation but keep it to themselves at the time knowing it will not help the situation. does not mean they dont personal feelings about it.

im just getting annoyed with how few women where i live are even thinking about it as an option. i go into the hospitals to talk to women who have just had their babys and are trying it or pregnant ones who are thingk about it. maybe 1 to 3 a week, then most quit. and even the pregnant ones are saying they will only do it for the first day or so as they want to make sure they can have a good night out for xmas.

yes i did it for 15 months... im not saying thats right for evey mum or baby. some babys stop themselves at 9 months or sooner.

My eldest dd was born with a cleft lip and palate, I could not breast feed her despite trying. No matter how much coaching or support the fact remained she was physically unable to suckle. (no suction)
It was out of my hands so I did what I could and she had formula milk fed through a bottle with a large teat with a cross cut into the teat, therefore, it just poured down her. I made an informed decision and did what I could in the circumstances.
My other two children I bf completely and successfully.

Mums make decisions that work for them!
(they can its their choice, their life and it is a free world)

Women shouldn't have to make excuses for not breast feeding. It's their choice and nothing to do with you. I bottle fed both of my dd's because I wanted to, I don't need to give excuses as to why I didn't breast feed.

i know this is a subject like gay marriages or abotions. its hard. there is personal beleives but then there is also whats happening.
i have a personal beleife on some thing. i know many who share it and dont. im not saying any one is wrong with what they are doing just that this is how im feeling about it.

I culdn't BF ds1, he lost weight so fast that he could have easily died- he was around 4 lbs when he went on to formula. DS2 fed for longer, ds3 for 16 months- which in itself disproves the myth of the i couldn't argument, imo.

Baby4 is on its way and I really want to Bf BUT there is a possible ink between certain conditions in the Mum and ASD (I ahve one with AD, another awaiting diagnosis)- I am booked to speak to a specialist nutritionist in the field in january and desperately want to BF and will modify my dioet in any way, but if the risk of the ASD 8IS* heightened by BF, then 'I couldn't' is a far bett thing than 'well, Ci ould ahve but it may have put my baby at risk'.

Isn't it?

OK will go back and read thread now- but having done the unicef course / helped out at bf classes ,y feelings on this are well formed- ie

you gives the info, they makes the choice, you respect that.

'and not everyone FEELS they can do it'...

haven't you been listening at all, alecia?

I couldn't breastfeed. I was just being selfish (oh yes, and it being a physical impossibility).

Do you think that you might convert more women if your posts were more empathetic?

'which in itself disproves the myth of the i couldn't argument, imo'

that doesn't amke sense- sorry! Also claim preggie brain.
I meant- shows that the argument that I couldn't is purely is an excuse is codswallop.

there

Alecia, I'm finding it quite hard to read your posts tbh, but after muddling through, and making as much sense as I could the only line I see a\s being fair or making any real sense was
"im just getting annoyed with how few women where i live are even thinking about it as an option."

Ok, that is a problem, we know this, so the task at hand is to get as much information out there as possible and hopefully change the opinion of some of the parenst that won't try it, but slagging off the ones that did is certainly not going to help, not only will they be not quite convinced about breastfeeding anyway, they'll be worried that if they can't do it they'll be selfish!

The way I see it, most peopel would rather be selfish without the horror stories you have mentioned than be selfish with the same problems.