A professor dating an ex student, many years after

[forinborin]

Do you think a professor dating his ex-student is inappropriate? The situation is as follows.

There has been a couple of years between the student's graduation and the relationship starting, both parties have been married to other people in between (now both divorced) and weren't in regular contact. The student was directly supervised / advised by the professor during the studies.

If you learned this about someone - would it make you question the credentials / award the student got from the university (e.g. a first/ a merit / a distinction)?

Asking for a friend (no, genuinely).

I think it's fine. I played in an orchestra with one of my lecturers, so actually knew them quite well before they lectured me. A flatmate's dissertation supervisor lived in the same block of flats — he read her first draft then put it through our letterbox.

The age gap is quite big, but I wouldn't judge the fact he'd taught her, or her marks, especially not with a gap and marriages in between. Academics live in a town just like everybody else does! And if you're in the same vague industry you're more likely to bump into each other at things.

I think if she was late 20s early 30s that is very different to an 18 year old just left home.i wouldn't give it any more headspace, presumably when they got involved they knew there would be comments.

Her classmate was being sleazy with that comment. A hard stare should have sufficed in return.

It is subtle and not so subtle misogyny to seek to 'explain' young women's selection for competitive courses, their good marks and their career successes, by implying they were given these marks or opportunities because they were pretty, or slept their way up.

As if female success is aberrant and requires explanation.

The only reply, other then the aforementioned hard stare, is to say that if the interlocuter had wanted to do as well as the woman they are trying to put down (their accusation barely hidden beneath their 'humour and bantz'), they should have been born cleverer and worked harder.

Non-issue. Happens in academia. Someone I know (prof) left his wife and several children for his PhD student, no-one from the Uni batted an eyelid and they're now living and working together...

There's a well known academic in my husband's field who is renowned for marrying his former phd students. At the time he did it the first time, it was fairly standard thing to do in the states though I think would be frowned upon a bit now- late twenties academic marries early twenties graduate student shortly after she graduates. Then, in his early forties, he divorced her and married his recent PhD student. The, in his early fifties, he divorced HER and married his recent PhD student. Then, in his early sixties....

You get the picture. I'd be more concerned about the 20 year age gap and any kind of power imbalance - obviously in her 30s she's a grown up but sometimes where you meet people who you see as being v clever/knowledgable it can lead to a weird dynamic. But no, I don't think the scenario you outline would be of concern to anyone.

Though there was an academic in my uni who apparently married a former student - thirty years previously, when they were v much peers - and people still occasionally muttered about that, so you never know. People are weird. But I wouldn't be worried, and I wouldn't be classing her classmate as a friend.

I wouldn’t question her grades but I would think it was inappropriate and suspect it had been going on longer than they admitted.
I was at Uni in the early 90s and it was rife

Would it still feel slightly inappropriate? - yes

How infantilising and patronising is this thinking though.

If I was in my late 20s/early 30s and was at uni and started dating my tutor/lecturer, that’s my business. I’m not some naive 18 year old just out of school. It’s not the same.

It still means the relationship has started with a power imbalance though.

It’s obviously just a meaningless joke. Not very funny, but then - neither are many off the cuff jokes, under scrutiny.

This one person would not have been solely responsible for the grade awarded anyway. Even if they were, she would know that it would stand up to a post hoc re-mark if needed. So it’s actually a bit of a weird thing to get het up about.

Yep, total non issue.

I don't think that's an issue. I do remember when I was at uni though that one of my coursemates (undergrad degree) was having an affair with one of the young exceedingly fanciable professors. I'm sure there was a general feeling it wasn't acceptable but no-one reported him.

Not the Universities myself or DH have worked at but from another Institution.

The professional responsibilities of staff towards students may be academic (including assessment), administrative or advisory. If a member of staff has a romantic/sexual relationship with a student to whom they have, or are scheduled to have, any such responsibility, then the member of staff must inform their Head of School/Director who will be responsible for ensuring that the member of staff will have no involvement in the student’s assessment and, as far as practical, will separate the member of staff from other responsibilities in respect of the student. Failure to do so may leave the member of staff open to charges of bias and may lead to disciplinary action.

"now we know how you got your marks haha"

Tbh this is a joke I might make. I'd have made a similar joke in response. She's nothing to worry about.

Most uni exams are graded blind to prevent any sort of favouritism or animus from affecting the score.

If the student/professor relationship is firmly in the past I don't see any problem at all.

Wouldn’t make me question her academic results, but it would make me question his professionalism. I work for a US institution, so maybe the culture is different, but on aggregate there is so much abuse of students by faculty that the normal people avoid it entirely. As a colleague of mine describes it - ‘there are billions of people in the world, you can set the initial spark aside and move on.’

Remember, advisors often still write references years after graduation. There is a power imbalance. As someone who experienced pressure from male faculty during my undergrad and PhD, there really is nowhere to turn to that won’t wreck the career you pour so much into. It’s common and kept quiet at almost all universities. Tenure track faculty can’t report or they’d lose their jobs, and tenured faculty don’t care/perpetrate. The rumours last too. I was asked about my relationship with a particular professor from undergrad, despite nothing happening, when I interviewed for a service position last year.

Wouldnt think anything of it providing they are both happy with it.

Back in my uni days, it was not unusual for students and professors to forge friendships and even have relationships. There were several who had married former students.

I think it might cross the minds of a few people, if they know he was her professor, but he was only one professor out of many she must have had during her education, so no-one should seriously question her credentials. I'd assume this was an awkward joke.

Agree that it's normal. We don't bat an eyelid when people marry bosses, especially not former bosses from 5-6 years ago, and a supervisor has way less power over you than a boss. People meet at work, and men tend to date younger women.

Agree that there is a problem in academia with sleazy professors and PhD students abusing power though.

Don’t see a problem with this at all.

I would only be concerned that your friend is feeling undermined by the joke comment. There is nothing untoward about the relationship between the couple.

Obviously it wasn't how she got her marks, he wasn't solely responsible for marking it. There are checks and balances in place. I'd be hugely pissed off if I was her and someone was insinuating that my marks weren't legit. . And they are both consenting adults so their relationship now is nothing to do with anyone else.

A year later and I'd be 👀
But it's been ages and they've long departed this teacher relationship,plus as an ex uni lecturer, we double Mark anyway to ensure there's no discrepancies of any sort so no
The only thing I'd think was the student may look up to the professor but that would come out in the wash anyway
Not an issue IMO

As an academic I think that romantic relationships between academics and their current students are 100% inappropriate. I don't care if the student is in their 20s, 30s or 40s, there is a power imbalance there and it shouldn't happen.

Dating an ex-student is a completely different matter. If the ex-student was 21 and graduated last year I might raise an eyebrow, but in your case I don't see why it would be deemed inappropriate.

@TeeBee

I wouldn't question the marks at all. The faculty don't mark the final papers, they're sent to an exam board. Any contentious marks usually result in a viva.

The faculty absolutely does mark final papers. The faculty itself makes up the exam board.