Would you find this a bit hurtful? Autistic friend

[amibeingharsh]

Mentioning my mate's autism because I can't bring up this niggle I have with her, because she'll get very distressed and upset and say she is still learning because of the autism. I know it would open a whole draining can of worms and I have zero energy for drama right now.

Mate reached out after a few months asking how i was. I'm alright but my mum was diagnosed with stage 4 ovarian cancer, which is obviously hard. My friend just says ah sorry to hear that and then starts banging on about her IBS and the fact she can't find a new cleaner.

I can't quite put my finger on why I find this hurtful, because she did after all acknowledge what I told her so maybe I'm being daft, but I just really feel like distancing myself from her. I have felt that in the past she's never very interested in anything with me - I'm genuinely interested in what she's up to, but it can start to feel one sided? But I could never broach it because she'll get very upset.

She is a lovely person, an old friend and I'm fond of her, but I'm just tired I think. So perhaps am not being fair. AIBU?

YANBU. DP is autistic. We put in a lot of effort to communicate well and it works. But it took effort from both of us.
It’s not that autistic people cannot be caring. It’s that they don’t do it instinctively - unlike ‘neurotypicals’. I’ve also seen non autistic people ‘appear’ equally uncaring.
Try telling her how she comes across - if she gets pissy then it’s going to be very hard to improve.

You’re under no obligation to be proper friends with people who are draining. There are some people whose company I enjoy but whom I wouldn’t want around me when I’m in need because they’d be useless. If she’s like this you’re better of keeping her in the ‘fair weather’friend category and limiting your interactions with her. Life’s too short to babysit adults.

@faw2009 my newly diagnosed autistic teen asked me if the Mothers Day after my mum died was my best Mother's Day ever. She was about 7. At the time I thought it was sweet and innocent but now diagnosed so much makes sense.

I don't think she was being dismissive or insensitive either. One of my immediate relatives is autistic and when I've been seriously ill in the past I've had a "sorry to hear that" and then a move into conversation they can handle. It doesn't at all mean a lack of empathy - they are probably the most empathetic person I know, but their autism makes it very difficult for them to communicate in a way others might expect in social situations. The fact she acknowledged it means she cares, she then tried to find other conversation she was more comfortable with in order to continue the conversation. Perhaps you could try talking to her and saying that you had hoped to be able to talk about your mum and her diagnosis because you need the support and that youd like to talk about it? She's your friend and cares about you, I am sure she would be mortified to know you were feeling like this.
I can see why you would be upset and I do hope you have others around you to give you the support you need, and I am so sorry you're dealing with such devastating news.

"You would not expect a deaf person to hear you or a blind person to lip read, so don't eexpect someone with a communication disability to communicate like a NT person. if she is genuinely nice otherwise then it is likely to be a disbaility thing." This exactly. However, you too can have needs and feelings - other friends might fill in where this friend struggles.

What I cannot cope with is the OP is being put in a catch 22 situation: if she explains how she’s feeling and what she wants, this is ableism and awful, but if she doesn’t explain and doesn’t engage with the friend this is ALSO ableism and awful.

So previous posters are just expecting the OP to have her feelings trampled on whatever. I don’t think this is ok. You shouldn’t ever have to be in a position where you have to be continually upset to appease someone else.

@Iwouldlikesomecake

I said in my very first post in here that OP should draw back if she isn't getting what she needs from the friendship.

Adjust your expectations. You know she's not good at that sort of thing with her asd, so see her when you are strong and appreciate her for her good points. Accept her limitations. Depend on other friends who you know are capable of giving you support, when you need to.

@BlackeyedSusan

Its not insensitive either. it is a disability. Can you stop with the disablist/ablist comments.

It can be both. The disability may be the cause of the insensitivity but it doesn't stop it being insensitive. In the same way my mother in law is a very slow walker - the fact it is due to her disability doesn't stop her being slow.

@Iwouldlikesomecake quite a few posters have said that OP should only engage as much as she wants to.

It can be both. The disability may be the cause of the insensitivity but it doesn't stop it being insensitive. In the same way my mother in law is a very slow walker - the fact it is due to her disability doesn't stop her being slow.

You don't expect her to walk faster to suit you though, do you?

The whole concept of what is considered “insensitive” here is based on highly neurotypical ideas. Neurodivergent people have a different way of communicating and different ideas about what is insensitive and not. Therein lies the problem with ND/NT friendships. Of course these can work, but those differences need to be understood and acknowledged - both ways. As an ADHDer, I can be guilty of wandering conversations, going off topic, attention lapses, particularly after an intense week at work when I’ve been dealing with the problems of others (mental health). Sometimes I don’t have the spoons to deal with friends’ stuff on top. I used to force myself and get burnt out and resentful (although if it really is an emergency I do still hit that override button if needed). Now I say no - it’s a limitation of mine, and might well make me not a great friend if one of my “brain is fried” days coincides with a day that a friend needs to talk about something. My friends sometimes have feelings about that - which is fine, I can take that. Two way means two way. My friends can feel however they want about the limitations of my neurodiversity when it impacts on them, however what they aren’t allowed to do is override my boundary or try to force me into acting NT to suit their needs at that time - because that’s also insensitive to me. Whose needs take priority? Who decides?

If I want to know whether my bum really does look big in this, I’m 100% going to ask an autistic friend for an honest and unfiltered answer. Sometimes you just don’t need NT “sensitivity” bullshit, you need it said as it is. But then sometimes you do need that - which is when you have to decide which friends are best for what you need at the time. Presumably OP has reasons why she has this friend in her life and reasons why the friendship is of value to her. The question is, does that meet enough of OP’s needs? Is OP ok with the idea of having different friends to meet different needs?

You don't expect her to walk faster to suit you though, do you?

No, but nor would I expect to take her with me if I wanted to go for a hike - or be criticised for not doing so.

@Tibtom

You don't expect her to walk faster to suit you though, do you?

No, but nor would I expect to take her with me if I wanted to go for a hike - or be criticised for not doing so.

Well this is what the majority are saying. This is not the right friend for the situation.

I’m sorry to hear about your mum.

Does your friend know how serious ovarian cancer is and what stage 4 means?

Maybe she doesn’t know how to react appropriately or what to say.

Has she ever met your mum? If not I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect her to be upset as it’s a lady she doesn’t know. Unless you spell out how much your mum means to you she might not realise you need support. Or how to support to you?

I think you need to draw on the support of other friends in this tragic situation, maybe friends who have been through similar grief. Or speak to a bereavement counsellor?

@BlackeyedSusan

yep, social and communication disabilities can be like that. she is going to communicate as a disabled person. it is different to NT people.

she did acknowledge that your mum is ill. what else did you want her to say? tell her something clearly such as I like it when people ask about mum and listen to how her treatment is going. make it bloody obvious that this is what you want her to do.

you would not expect a deaf person to hear you or a blind person to lip read, so don't eexpect someone with a communication disability to communicate like a NT person. if she is genuinely nice otherwise then it is likely to be a disbaility thing.

This is good advice. Tell her what you need. If she's been a good friend for years it's more likely her communication here is a result of being Autistic and nothing else. My middle DC whose very much what you'd think is typically Autistic, has a very blunt communication style and can't infer anything. He is lovely and kind but very much needs it spelled out to him. He thinks in a very different way to NT people.

I'm sorry about your mum OP. If you're up to it you could tell her what you need. If that's understandably too much, you could take a step back for now. Maybe reach out to a different friend or an online support group.

When you are going through something tough in life ,I think you see things differently and take things in different ways you wouldn't normally, and with your friend having autism can make things quite difficult as they don't see situations the way the other person does . it's no one's fault ,just what's happening in your life at the moment has brought up alot of different emotions you wouldn't normally feel.
My brother was in intensive care and passed in January and we knew that he wasn't going to pull through ,was so unexpected and so sudden we were devastated. We got told the same night, mil had covid and was in hospital but she was fine luckily and wouldn't be in hospital very long ,when we rang to see how she was we told her about my DB, mil said she was so sorry and that she passes her love on etc', then she told me all about how she is having a laugh with the nurses, and the nice food she has ate, she feels better than she has for ages as she is getting treatment, and that she will be home soon.
At the time I felt hurt as my DB wouldn't ever get to do those things again, eat nice food, have a laugh. But it was no one's fault it was the situation we were both in. I'm sure I didn't appear sympathetic to her having covid ,other than telling her that we hope she is home soon and that she gets better.But with the stress of everything else I just couldn't get past it. I am so glad she is well again and didn't have covid too bad, even though she put herself in that situation,but that's another story.
Maybe try to distance a little from your friend till you are in the right frame of mind.

@Immunetypegoblin

It's sometimes hard to gauge with people on the autistic spectrum how much of a particular behaviour is autism and how much is them personally. My son is being assessed and we constantly have the fun 'deliberately being an arsehole' or 'can't help it due to his brain' challenge. Your friend may well have autism, but she could also be a bit self-absorbed and have responded the way she did as a result.

In either case, you are allowed to take a step back and say that you need to look after yourself more than usual right now, so won't be in touch as frequently. If anyone else does anything nice for you, do tell your friend about it and how happy it made you that they did that. That's not quite asking her for support but it does demonstrate what you consider support to be.

I'm sorry about your mum

There aren't 'autistic parts of a person'. Everything is their autism. They are autistic. They are neurodiverse. It is not separate to them.

I'm sorry proopher, I phrased that very poorly. I guess I'm trying to say that people with autism have personalities as well, and that they can be self-absorbed or not according to that personality.

@CornishLover

I take issue with the deaf comment because autism is on a spectrum. Heck, even hearing impairment is on a spectrum and varies. So your analogy is kind of offensive actually. Setting the bar blankly low for autism actually does people with autism a disservice because not all of them are incapable of showing care and consideration.

Autism is not a get out of jail card, though. Many people with autism once over 30s can 'mask', particularly women with autism they develop the skills to 'act' like they care even if they don't fully feel like they care because they grow to understand this is what caring people in a society do.

But one of the diagnostic criteria of autism is social and communication impairment, you quite literally can’t be autistic if you don’t have some sort of impairment communicating. In the same way you can’t be deaf if you don’t have some form of hearing loss. It’s a perfectly sound analogy. It’s not about setting the bar low, it’s about understanding that autistics struggle with communication and working with that knowledge in mind.

@proopher autism doesn’t mean that all of your negative or otherwise traits are due to it. They have personalities to abs to suggest otherwise is ableist and insulting

I'm so sorry about your Mum OP. It sounds like you need to step back from this friendship at least for now, as your friend isn't going to be able to support you as you need.

I had a similar situation with a friend who had anxiety - the dynamic worked only for so long as I was able to be the strong friend, listening to her and meeting her needs. When I had my own problems she couldn't reciprocate and we never really got over the imbalance.

[quote TheLastLotus]@proopher autism doesn’t mean that all of your negative or otherwise traits are due to it. They have personalities to abs to suggest otherwise is ableist and insulting[/quote]
I am autistic.

You've missed my point. My point is that there are no 'non-autistic' parts of an autistic person. We don't have a 'neurotypical part'. So everything that I do is influenced by my autism; good, bad, friendly, mean, whether I'm thinking or chatting or arguing or relaxing. Everything.