Would you find this a bit hurtful? Autistic friend

[amibeingharsh]

Mentioning my mate's autism because I can't bring up this niggle I have with her, because she'll get very distressed and upset and say she is still learning because of the autism. I know it would open a whole draining can of worms and I have zero energy for drama right now.

Mate reached out after a few months asking how i was. I'm alright but my mum was diagnosed with stage 4 ovarian cancer, which is obviously hard. My friend just says ah sorry to hear that and then starts banging on about her IBS and the fact she can't find a new cleaner.

I can't quite put my finger on why I find this hurtful, because she did after all acknowledge what I told her so maybe I'm being daft, but I just really feel like distancing myself from her. I have felt that in the past she's never very interested in anything with me - I'm genuinely interested in what she's up to, but it can start to feel one sided? But I could never broach it because she'll get very upset.

She is a lovely person, an old friend and I'm fond of her, but I'm just tired I think. So perhaps am not being fair. AIBU?

@Iwouldlikesomecake

One autistic person is one autistic person though. My friend who is autistic is kind and empathetic, she can express empathy. Whereas OP’s friend clearly can’t.

Also I don’t think that it actually 100% matters why the OP’s friend upset her, it still happened, OP’s feelings are still relevant. You can say it was her being autistic that is a mitigation but actually the OP doesn’t have to continue to put herself in a position where she’s going to get even more upset because her friend’s feelings trump hers. They don’t. She is within her rights to withdraw for a bit until the friendship can continue on a level that both parties can engage with.

I don't disagree. I'm just sick of seeing 'maybe it's not the autism' posts about autistic people displaying autistic behaviour.

It's like saying someone with one leg who keeps falling over isn't falling because of their missing leg.

@rainbowthoughts

However, if OP sent a text to her friend saying "Hey, I'm upset today about my mum, so I'd like to talk about that with you when you come over if that's ok?" nobody is accusing anyone of anything, they are just clearly spelling out what they need from the interaction today. If friend can't provide that, fair enough, but that's not necessarily because of autism. It could be, but it doesn't have to be. Assuming that friend is unable to provide what OP needs by just saying "well, they're autistic", is to me no better than expecting friend to behave like a neurotypical person.

Please stop being so dismissive of the difficulties people with autism can face in these situations.

I'm not trying to be dismissive. I'm just saying that not everyone has the same needs or difficulties and assuming they do without checking with them can be problematic. It could be that they are unable to provide the emotional support OP needs right now, or it could be that they are confused and have no idea what OP wants, in which case being clear about that could be helpful.

If OP suddenly cools on the friendship without explanation, that could be equally upsetting for the friend. It might be a no-win scenario.

[quote Rumtumtummy]@Moulesvinrouge1

I kind of disagree. If OP went back to friend and said, "oh, what you did last time didn't work for me and you need to do x if you want to do it correctly" I would get how that's upsetting.

However, if OP sent a text to her friend saying "Hey, I'm upset today about my mum, so I'd like to talk about that with you when you come over if that's ok?" nobody is accusing anyone of anything, they are just clearly spelling out what they need from the interaction today. If friend can't provide that, fair enough, but that's not necessarily because of autism. It could be, but it doesn't have to be. Assuming that friend is unable to provide what OP needs by just saying "well, they're autistic", is to me no better than expecting friend to behave like a neurotypical person.[/quote]
I absolutely agree with you! I just meant to point out that saying ‘it’s all about her’ was unkind, and trying to speculate on some context as to why the friend might be upset, as it no matter how it is phrased it might very come come across as ‘You are not getting friendship right. Again.’

Personally, I am an excellent masker and always take pride in being the best autistic person I can be!

If someone wants a specific conversation, for example, I always ask that they provide a script in advance so I can respond on cue and correctly to all their prompts and questions.

I practice my eye-contact skills for at least an hour every day with my dog. I have trained myself to only meltdown on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Also looking into surgery to have my hands removed so I don't trigger any poor neurotypicals with my unattractive stimming.

Please try to remember that those of us with autism don’t consciously mean to talk about ourselves all the time or bring the conversations back around to ourselves.
Many with autism struggle with having conversations and it’s easier to talk about things we know, I hardly ever ask someone how they are or how is “insert name” I then feel really guilty when I realise I forgot.
I I just don’t realise that other people want to be asked these things and forget to take their feelings into consideration.
I find going back and fourth in conversations really hard and it’s so easy to forget all the “social rules” but I will say it’s easier to speak to someone over messages.
I’m sure she would be happy to be there for you, you just need to express it clearly to her so she will understand.

Personally, I am an excellent masker and always take pride in being the best autistic person I can be!

The suggestion that people who don't mask are not the best they can be is actually sickening.

Great if your strategy worlds for you, but please don't suggest others are not good enough because they can't do this.

For me, being the best autistic person I can be isn't an option. I try to be the best person I can be, and part of that of course involves some masking. I do this for me, not for others.

@rainbowthoughts

Did you actually read that post?

There might be ways to raise it with the friend without setting her off onto a rejection sensitivity spiral, but the thing is, OP doesnt have the spoons herself for that at the moment.
Sometimes people cant avoid hurting each other and it doesnt mean anyone is a bad friend, but there are always going to be times when you cant handle certain people

I'm sorry about your mum op

She might just not be the right friend to support you just now. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, it doesn't mean you can't stay friends.
Do you have some other support?

I hear the whole thing about if I bring this up with her she’ll be upset. But also - if you don’t bring it up, or state your needs in the friendship and instead withdraw, she’ll also realise that and probably be upset anyways. Us neurodivergents might get social cues wrong a lot, but we’re also not thick. This is also such a NT thing to do the withdrawal/ghosting thing rather than confront the problem. Give me autistic bluntness in a friend any day. Yeah, I might get upset, but actually that’s ok, life is actually not about being happy all the time. And friendships are the same, sometimes you’re going to (unintentionally) upset or trigger each other, miss each other’s feelings or needs, etc. That’s being human.

@rainbowthoughts

Personally, I am an excellent masker and always take pride in being the best autistic person I can be!

The suggestion that people who don't mask are not the best they can be is actually sickening.

Great if your strategy worlds for you, but please don't suggest others are not good enough because they can't do this.

For me, being the best autistic person I can be isn't an option. I try to be the best person I can be, and part of that of course involves some masking. I do this for me, not for others.

@rainbowthoughts

I think you need to read the WHOLE of that post. The poster was using sarcasm to show the ridiculous extremes an autistic person would have to go to in order to appear NT so as not to offend NTs.

The poster does not believe they should have to do these things just to make NTs better - as shown by her final example of considering removing her hands surgically so NTs are offended by her stunning.

Hope that helps.

I would guess from my own experience that she's hung up on this too.
It's hard for anyone to know what to say, even more so for autistics and even autistics that are aware and are tackling that side of themselves sometimes forget, she had something on her mind and forgot to pay attention.
I wouldn't bring it up, but in future, saying something like "thanks, I'm really struggling with it, I'm feeling alone." Is a good way to remind people to encourage people to support you in the right way.

I think you need to read the WHOLE of that post. The poster was using sarcasm to show the ridiculous extremes an autistic person would have to go to in order to appear NT so as not to offend NTs.

I did read the whole posts. I honestly missed the sarcastic element there

The poster does not believe they should have to do these things just to make NTs better - as shown by her final example of considering removing her hands surgically so NTs are offended by her stunning.

I saw that as a bit of a joke but I honestly didn't realise the whole thing was sarcasm.

Hope that helps.

This bit just rude though

[quote Merryoldgoat]@rainbowthoughts

Did you actually read that post?[/quote]

Yes, I did. I had to have it pointed out as sarcasm because I genuinely didn't pick it up.

@rainbowthoughts

My ‘hope that helps’ was genuinely meant.

My son is autistic and would have failed to understand the post also, which is why I took the time to break it down and explain it and explain the sarcasm, in the hope you would find that helpful.

@Rinoachicken

Sorry, that phrase is used as an insult so often on here. I realise you meant no harm.

I'm embarrassed I missed it tbh, looking at it now it's obvious. Sometimes I get myself into defensive mode and can't see what I'm looking at properly!

@rainbowthoughts

No problem

It’s really hard to get the right ‘tone’ in words on a screen - the same few words could be said in many different ways which would change how they were meant, but you don’t get that on a screen.

I am ND myself, though not autistic, and I frequently get completely the wrong end of the stick when reading texts etc!

It’s a minefield and it’s exhausting!!

OP, I'm sorry you're going through this. A few days ago I was told my dad was at end of life. Both kids briefed by my husband. DS2 kept asking if I was ok, lots of hugs and concerns. DS1 (ASD) at the dinner table, breezing asked "so, How's everyone's day been?" It actually made me laugh and I think his total obliviousness makes him good company for me at the moment (otherwise I'm constantly welling up).

But you need different support, so probably need to look elsewhere. If you need total distraction, you know where to go.
Wishing you well.

Very interesting thread as I pulled my autistic child up for a more minor but similar thing just this morning. I like @EmpressSuiko 's post very much, it makes so much sense to me as NT parent to an autistic child. But I do worry about how my child is going to manage all this stuff by himself as an adult.

Chucking words like "ableism" around don't address the reality for OP of having her feelings hurt over and over again. That is a real challenge to maintaining the friendship. Sadly it is often easier for people to give up on the friendship and walk away. Absolutely no criticism from me, OP, for stating the problem and trying to do something about it. That's you valuing the friendship and yourself.

It is so very easy to take it personally. I think there's a good chance that your friend cares deeply about you but to and fro chatting on the fly just isn't the right medium for her to express that. Do tell her you were hurt. Do say "can we talk a bit more about my mum, I'm really sad and scared and it would help me to talk about it". Tell her what you would like her to do - just to listen, or to find practical ways to help, or to say things to try to make you less sad (hint: not that last one, that is where all the platitudes come out).

Also when you chat, maybe let her get all her stuff out first. Her brain may be brimming with all the things she needs to say. I get that your stuff is "bigger" and more important but I know my son can't concentrate on a real 2 way conversation sometimes until he has discharged all his special interest stuff. It's not that he doesn't care, it's just like letting the fizz out when you open a bottle before you can unscrew the lid fully.

Finally, if she is not the right friend to share your worries about your mum with, that is ok too... all friendships have their strengths and weaknesses. As long as you basically like each other and can find a way to enjoy each other's company, then it's worth hanging onto.

I'm sorry to hear about your mum I went through this last year with my mum, unfortunately people often don't know what to say, and I did struggle with dealing with people. Some ignored it completely and others mentioning it sometimes upset me, try and look after yourself as it can be quite draining dealing with it all. If she is a good friend please tell her how you are feeling

You've got so much going on right now, of course a situation or conversation that needs you to be more switched on to being understanding and patient is going to affect you a lot more.

She's perhaps used to unloading on you? Failed to recognise that it wasn't the time? I think asking her to back off and give you space, explain you can't give right now. Be kind to yourself.

Hmmm. I'm autistic and it's taken a very long while to learn lots of subtle communication skills. I do find I can't resist telling friends about my stuff in a rambling way.

But, I'd be horrified to hear your news about your mum if you were my friend. If anything I'd probably be asking too many questions.

My advice would be to prioritise your own well being during this difficult time. You have to look after your own needs and if spending time with your friend is too hard at the moment that's okay. I have a friend who is more obviously autistic than me and sometimes I put off seeing her as she exhausts me. Although she can be kind, everything is basically on her terms. Sometimes I feel like telling her to stop obsessing about herself.

I found in the past when very difficult things were happening in my life and I was struggling to cope, I didn’t talk about it with many people as it was SO massive to me I couldn’t cope with it being treated as something small and the conversation moving on. So I protected it. I don’t know if that’s a good or bad idea but it worked for me and I stopped feeling cross with people for saying the wrong thing or acting insensitively inadvertently.

My ex is autistic and she’s exactly like this. I did find it hard to deal with at times. Not just the seeming not to care, but the immediate switching to going on and on about herself. I think it was because she kind of struggled to appreciate the gravity of what was being said to her straight away, or she didn’t know how to respond or something. the reason she went on about herself seemingly oblivious to the fact that she was doing so is because talking about herself feels easier than talking about someone else. It’s not an unfeeling or dismissive thing, it’s just a lack of ability to gage a situation and not knowing how to respond appropriately.

We did discuss it lots of times, in a non-judgemental way. To be fair to her she did try to learn to respond in a more appropriate way and she did try to wind in the constant talking about herself. She would revert back to it if she was upset or stressed or whatever though, and when our relationship was suffering and/or one or other or both of us were feeling out of sorts it created friction, so in its way I suppose it did contribute to the end of our relationship.

It wasn’t her fault though and she couldn’t help it, and she did make progress in learning to communicate more reciprocally, but yeah, it can be upsetting when you just need someone to be caring.