Derek Chauvin

[x2boys]

Derek Chauvin found guilty of all charges ,this is the right verdict imo,having watched the trial

@FOJN. Thank you. I’ll look at that.
I see your point.

@Pleasure. No one is making George Floyd out to be a Saint. Even his family have said that he absolutely was not.

Accidents are tragic. Murder is not.

George Floyd has gone down in history as a victim, not a Saint.

Yes @MrsMackesy, I can accept the argument that a new officer would defer to his senior colleague to a certain extent, and that may be regarded as a mitigating factor, but surely, there would come a point during that 9-minute period when your natural human instinct would kick in, you would see that a man was being killed and that it was wrong. Each one of those officers had a responsibility in my view, and each one failed to fulfill that responsibility.

Totally agree paralysedbyinertia. To me it says they were no better than Chauvin.
They could have bent down and spoke quietly to Chauvin that Floyd was becoming unresponsive and to stop now.
As it was, even the medics had to pull Chauvin off of Floyd.

Not wishing to pre-empt what a jury will decide, after hearing all the evidence for the prosecution and defence, I can only give my opinion on what I have read and seen. However, that is that if you kneel on someone's back or legs, while second-degree murder, third-degree murder and manslaughter is simultaneously being committed on that someone, then you are aiding and abetting those crimes; equally if you stand and watch, holding back members of the public who are desperately trying to stop that crime.

No man, woman or child deserves to die on a street begging for their mum.

We treat animals with more dignity than humans at times.

Police should never ever be allowed to play judge, jury and executioner. If the police in the USA need guns, why not rubber bullets? Surely the chance of killing someone is significantly reduced? Doesn’t solve the problem of abhorrent systemic racism, but kills less people.

[quote EvilOnion]@Pleasure. No one is making George Floyd out to be a Saint. Even his family have said that he absolutely was not.

Accidents are tragic. Murder is not.

George Floyd has gone down in history as a victim, not a Saint.[/quote]
I think it's more complicated than that. Social media is full of artwork with flowers, rainbows, and sunrises like halos round his head, and lots of sanctifying language. He was undoubtedly a victim and the jury did the right thing, but lots of people feel uneasy about his past actions being glossed over.

One example of many.

I suspect @MorrisZapp that at least some of those people objecting also have to say 'all lives matter', in the face of BLM. Their focus at this moment in time is all wrong.

He was undoubtedly a victim and the jury did the right thing, but lots of people feel uneasy about his past actions being glossed over

That really takes the biscuit for whataboutery, minimising and deflecting.

So the dead victim is now responsible for social media content from the grave.

If Floyd hadn't been murdered by a policeman he would have remained unknown on social media. But gods forbid we hold a white policeman fully accountable for his own chosen actions.

@Pleasure

George Floyd's murder was a tragedy, I'm sure no one disputes that. However, it seems that he's being made out to be a saint when he wasn't, he was a habitual criminal. I hope that his family can find peace.

Can you point to one instance of him being made out to be a saint?

Mr Floyd was not a saint, but he was not a murderer. He was a murder victim and a human being with a family.

Regardless of resisting, or Floyd’s character or whatever - police over the world have a duty of care. Even if you are in the wrong. The police have a duty of care for you or a criminal to not die in their custody. By all means protect themselves. But i agree with a pp
If several police officers cannot use non lethal force on a man then they must be help accountable for their actions.

This is accountability. Not justice. If there was justice then Floyd would not have died in custody.

@C8H10N4O2

He was undoubtedly a victim and the jury did the right thing, but lots of people feel uneasy about his past actions being glossed over

That really takes the biscuit for whataboutery, minimising and deflecting.

So the dead victim is now responsible for social media content from the grave.

If Floyd hadn't been murdered by a policeman he would have remained unknown on social media. But gods forbid we hold a white policeman fully accountable for his own chosen actions.

I'm not blaming the victim for the actions of social media users, I'm blaming the content creators. The white perp has been convicted of murder so that is fully accountable, surely.

Posted before seeing @MorrisZapp's response.

Regardless - in my view, the things he did in the past are irrelevant. Not unimportant, but irrelevant. When someone is publicly tortured to death, nobody should be saying "Yes, but... he once did something nasty." I think the people who zero in on this aspect need to have a serious think about why it makes them uncomfortable.

I'm not blaming the victim for the actions of social media users, I'm blaming the content creators

You are "uncomfortable" with images praising George Floyd. Take it up with the content creators, start another thread. Here it is whataboutery to diminish a victim.

Of course he shouldn't be sanctified, but the way I look at it is... it's not him but the countless other victims that he stands for.

What is wrong with murder is that it is murder, even if it is of a non perfect flawed person or even a bad man. It's still murder.

The law should not, and doesn't (hopefully) take any notice of what sort of man was murdered and any other attitude would justify murder which of course is wrong.

@LolaButt

No man, woman or child deserves to die on a street begging for their mum.

We treat animals with more dignity than humans at times.

Police should never ever be allowed to play judge, jury and executioner. If the police in the USA need guns, why not rubber bullets? Surely the chance of killing someone is significantly reduced? Doesn’t solve the problem of abhorrent systemic racism, but kills less people.

This

He was undoubtedly a victim and the jury did the right thing, but lots of people feel uneasy about his past actions being glossed over.

But why do people feel uncomfortable about this? Why does it matter?

As far as I'm concerned, his past actions are completely irrelevant. They did not cause his death. Derek Chauvin caused his death by putting his knee on Floyd's neck for nine minutes and squeezing the breath out of him. What difference does his character make, unless people are trying to suggest that he somehow deserved to be murdered?

Would you expect to see a balanced analysis on social media of the character flaws of a woman who had been raped and murdered? What about someone who had been the victim of a terrorist attack? We don't see their past lives being picked apart or any past misdemeanours being used to excuse or justify what happened to them.

George Floyd was murdered by Derek Chauvin. He was the victim in this case. His character doesn't matter. We don't have to put him on trial. People will remember him in whatever way they see fit.

@paralysedbyinertia perfectly put.

@skirk64

My takeaway from the recent police killings in America is simple - always comply with police instructions.

George Floyd would still be alive if he hadn't resisted.
Rayshard Brooks would still be alive if he hadn't resisted grabbed an officer's taser and run off.
Daunte Wright would still be alive if he hadn't resisted, got back into his car and driven away.
Adam Toledo would still be alive if he had not run away in an attempt to hide his firearm before surrendering.

That doesn't mean officers shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. But the common denominator in these fatal shootings is that the person killed did not comply with the instructions of the police. In most/all of those cases, the alleged crimes were fairly minor. Argue your case down the police station, argue it in court, don't argue with the officer pointing a gun at you.

Oh? And what about Makhia Bryant, the 16 year old girl who was shot by police yesterday?

What about Breonna Taylor who was killed in her own bed by police who broke into her house?

Shame on you.

You're right, @TheGlassBlowersDaughter , I don't know for sure why the 10% - now 11% - voted the OP unreasonable. I made assumptions and was not surprised, given that we live in a racist world and MN is a cross-section of that world.

As far as I'm concerned, his past actions are completely irrelevant

^This
He hadn't broken out of jail and was on the run, he hadn't skipped bail... he wasn't a gunman on the run, at that moment in time he was just going about his business.
Yes I know there was a $20 counterfeit note but did he even know that, we don't know.

The whole system in the US is frightening to be honest.
Just two examples on a very quick Google;

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/outrage-over-video-showing-maryland-police-officers-scream-at-and-handcuff-five-year-old-boy-12258046

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/26/us/body-camera-video-6-year-old-arrested/index.html

These children are aged 5 and 6. Note they are both black. They are both handcuffed. They are clearly not a threat.
This is the system black American children are being shown? A system that allows them to be handcuffed and physically removed from their school because of a temper tantrum? It’s no wonder they grow up terrified of having any encounter with the police is it?

@HolyMilkBoobiesBatman

The whole system in the US is frightening to be honest. Just two examples on a very quick Google;

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/outrage-over-video-showing-maryland-police-officers-scream-at-and-handcuff-five-year-old-boy-12258046

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/26/us/body-camera-video-6-year-old-arrested/index.html

These children are aged 5 and 6. Note they are both black. They are both handcuffed. They are clearly not a threat.
This is the system black American children are being shown? A system that allows them to be handcuffed and physically removed from their school because of a temper tantrum? It’s no wonder they grow up terrified of having any encounter with the police is it?

And still people wonder why a black man panics when he is picked up by police.