Page 7 | Do you judge women who stay with men who don't see their children?

BlatantPineapple · 2021-04-19T15:41:24+00:00

A close friends situation got me thinking about this sort of thing... Basically her Dad has older children from before she was born who he never sees and she has never met. He has been married to her Mum for a long time now and she has two brothers. She says he's always been a good Dad to them but I know she finds it strange that she has siblings out there somewhere who she has no idea about. Whenever she mentions it I just can't help but feel really sorry for his older children. How hurtful it must be to know your Dad is a good father to other children but never bothered with you. I also wondered how I'd feel as his wife (my friends Mum). I don't think I'd be able to be with a Man who did that, would you? Would you judge a woman who was with a man who'd abandoned and never seen his children?

pollylocketpickedapocket · 19/04/2021 21:32

Oh I should say, my mum told my dad when they got together she didn’t want his kids around. I judge him for staying with her, she was being honest

Jellybabiesforbreakfast · 19/04/2021 21:35

Yes, it's amazing how it's the ex's fault that they don't pay maintenance. Because she'd just spend it on handbags and nails so it's best that they keep the mones and buy the child an ice-cream or a toy once a month instead. Do you know any children who can survive on two ice-creams a month or who can eat plastic?

pollylocketpickedapocket · 19/04/2021 21:38

@Angrypregnantlady

I don't agree with the "she won't let him see them" excuse. How many mothers here would just accept that the father of their children won't let them see their kids? You'd just sit there complaining that he lives too far away/ won't agree a contact schedule that works round your job/ won't tell you where he lives even. No. You turn up at every school, every relatives house, You'd save every penny you made to pay for lawyers. You'd fight tooth and nail for your kids. You wouldn't go out and find yourself a new boyfriend and replace your kids with new ones.

Spot on.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 19/04/2021 21:42

My judgment would be all for the man in this situation I think. But I wouldn’t understand how the woman could be with him. That might be a species of judgment but a slightly different thing imo.

cantthinkofauniquename · 19/04/2021 21:55

Because of the experience I have had, I would not judge unless I knew more of the facts.

My DH has an older child. I don't have to just believe the words from his mouth. I've seen the parental alienation first hand (we've been together since she was 3). I've been there when we've gone to pick her up on his weekend to find she's in childcare so he can't. He's always paid CM, first through the CSA and then privately when SHE was the one that fucked them about so they dismissed her claim. I've seen the handwritten note demanding cash on collection every other two weeks. I've seen the paperwork from the CSA and many court applications and the related bills. I've seen the poisonous emails and texts, heard the phone calls etc etc. I've been there when my DH has sobbed and had breakdowns over it. I've been there when he's not been in touch with for a few months because his mental health was so low over it. I've been there when he's tried to call and they just take the phone off the hook. I've counted the 50+ texts in a row to his DD that have gone unanswered "Hey, how you doing? Love you" or "hey, hope you're having a good week" just to TRY and keep lines of communication open (over a period of months, not all sent one straight after the other that would/could be considered harassment). God it's been fucking hard. He has kept going back again and again because it's the right thing to do but it would certainly have made life easier all round if he'd just stopped. But he never did and still doesn't.

His mum did exactly the same to his dad and his dad took a step back when my DH was a child back in the 80s. When DH and I first were friends in the late 90s, I thought his dad was a right deadbeat and DH was determined not to be like his dad for his DD. In hindsight and with the experience we have been through, I can understand more about why his dad did what he did. He now has a really good relationship with his dad, not so much with his mum. The more I see his dad's personality, the more I like him. The more I see of his mum, the more I experience how difficult she can be.

My best friend has 2 children with her ex. He's a waste of space but undoubtedly he spins a right yarn to his new wife. I don't judge her though. It's not her fault and the older his first kids get, the more they are aware of their dad's materialistic nature. My friend often said he'd probably make a better husband/father second time around and she's not bitter that that seems to be the case.

I also have a couple of friends/acquaintances who also have no compunction when it comes to slagging off their exes on social media. I can see how hurt they are but I can also see they'd be really difficult to deal with. There is one of the exes I actually feel a bit sorry for, even if he is a bit of a dick. (Obv is goes without being said that I feel most sorry for the children who are in toxic situations through no fault of their own).

It's rarely just black and white. On MN, it overwhelmingly looks like more dads just fuck off and leave their kids high and dry. But when I look at my real life circles, it's more evenly split that MN would have me believe.

BonnieDundee · 19/04/2021 22:00

Women getting judged for mens' behaviour?

No

cantthinkofauniquename · 19/04/2021 22:02

@Angrypregnantlady

I don't agree with the "she won't let him see them" excuse. How many mothers here would just accept that the father of their children won't let them see their kids? You'd just sit there complaining that he lives too far away/ won't agree a contact schedule that works round your job/ won't tell you where he lives even. No. You turn up at every school, every relatives house, You'd save every penny you made to pay for lawyers. You'd fight tooth and nail for your kids. You wouldn't go out and find yourself a new boyfriend and replace your kids with new ones.

If only it was that simple. Turning up at repeatedly at school and every relative's house is just going to get you arrested for harassment. The court fees add up and you end up broke. You still have to eat and put a roof over your head and heat your house. Then the child doesn't want to see you because you don't have any money to do anything fun.

Continually trying is obviously the best thing to do but it's not always simple and it can be so miserable for all involved. Including the child. At what point do you say "actually, it's best for the child to stop putting them in the middle of a toxic situation and by stepping back, I am putting them in the centre of what's right and peaceful"?

Abouttimemum · 19/04/2021 22:04

@cantthinkofauniquename I agree. Amazingly, women can be dreadful human beings as well who don’t give any shits about what is best for their children. I see it every day.
I wouldn’t judge unless I knew the circumstances.

FrippEnos · 19/04/2021 22:17

Angrypregnantlady

No. You turn up at every school, every relatives house,

And get arrested for harassment, or end up having to take a friend in the car because you know that you will have to prove that you did nothing other than try and pick up your child.

You'd save every penny you made to pay for lawyers. You'd fight tooth and nail for your kids.

And when you are broke and your mental health is shot, what do you do then?

You wouldn't go out and find yourself a new boyfriend

So these people shouldn't have a life?

and replace your kids with new ones.

Strangely those that do this seem to be serial bastards that hav kids and leave.

There is always a spectrum.

Coppercreek1 · 19/04/2021 22:24

It's definitely a complicated one.i am nearly 30 and have an older half sister in her 50's.

When my dad and his ex wife got divorced she blocked access to their daughter. He got to see her sporadically over the years but his ex wife was very bitter and poisoned their daughter into not wanting to see him. He never forgot her and tried to keep lines of communication open but it was blocked at all levels by her mum and it wasn't like how it is today with mobiles and social media etc.

She got in contact with myself and my sisters a few years ago but sadly was a few years too late as he had passed away and said herself what a poisonous bitch her mother was and that she had tried hard to find him but he was impossible to trace (very common name).

She wasn't a dirty secret we all knew of her existence and had tried to find her ourselves before he passed but it was difficult (got married in a different country so nothing on marriage register and all electoral roll in married name, she is a teacher teacher doesn't use full name on social media etc)

We have met a few times and it is hard for her to know that he was such an amazing dad to us and raised my older sister who is not his as if she was his own, but then she said in the sporadic contact she had with him he was amazing with her too but wasn't given the chance to be the dad to her that he should have been.

Just a shame all round tbh and that my dad died thinking she hated him and she was told he didn't want her and none of that was true but it was just too late.

EnoughnowIthink · 19/04/2021 22:34

Men need to step up and own their actions and we need to start holding men accountable rather then expecting women to be the ones to police them

So ‘we’ hold men accountable but that ‘we’ doesn’t include women? If you are going to have a relationship with someone, why would you ignore how they treat their children? If a partner or close family member doesn’t challenge piss poor behaviour, what difference will it make if the rest of society does!

aSofaNearYou · 19/04/2021 22:36

No, I wouldn't judge either of them without knowing the full story, and I would be unlikely to judge her either way.

Chloemol · 19/04/2021 23:08

How do you know he ‘abandoned’ them? There’s lots of posts on here where woman are happy to use kids as weapons to get their own way, including refusing the father access to them

There are always two sides to every story, have you actually asked your friends parents why they don’t see the kids from the first relationship?

You can’t assume he is in the wrong

Carbara · 19/04/2021 23:12

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YesIDoLoveCrisps · 19/04/2021 23:12

Yes I would think the ‘dad’ and the wife/partner were both useless selfish twats.

Onlinedilema · 19/04/2021 23:13

Yes I’ve a friend who’s dad abandoned her and her siblings at a very crucial stage of her life. She had no idea whether the father she doted on was dead or alive for almost a year. Turns out he had left a previous family too. Both her and her sister ended up marrying abusive men. Her husband left his first wife and child and it turned out he had another child to an affair partner who he abandoned. When she later left her husband he stopped seeing their children. It’s a repeating pattern.
I have a relative who was deeply affected when his father left the family home. His mother died and he was orphaned. He had to live in a violent loveless adoptive home. Years later he traced his fathers third family, the dad had died but his younger children waxed lyrical about how great a dad he had been. They then admitted their mother never wanted them to be in touch with her husbands other children.

Carbara · 19/04/2021 23:14

Any bare minimum man would have court ordered 50/50 parenting, would have gone to court time and time again if the woman he impregnated refused. Obviously.

TheFormidableMrsC · 19/04/2021 23:23

My ex-h has no contact with our son. His prick of a girlfriend (who was the OW) has made him choose between her and our son. He chose her. Our son is 10 years old and this has been going on for 8 years. I've tried everything to engage and co-parent to no avail. The last straw for me was her banning son from their home at the beginning of the pandemic when I was diagnosed with breast cancer. She was so triggered by it she did that to prevent ex helping me while I had surgery. The woman is a cunt. I took ex back to court and he's now got a no contact order and she's subject of a prohibited steps order.

I judge the pair of them and so does everybody else. Disgusting people. Both as bad as eachother.

CrossedThemAll · 19/04/2021 23:30

Imagine meeting a man who has no contact with his children due to being an arsehole, abuser, or just plain neglectful and thinking, "Yes, he's a keeper, I'll have him."

I judge the both of them. Him for being a shit dad, and her for accepting/encouraging/enabling it.

YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators · 19/04/2021 23:30

Hm. If I met a man who wasn't seeing his children, I would think
a) that he might be prevented from seeing them on account of a history of DV or similar. Abusers tend to lie and be deluded, so I would be disinclined to believe anything he said about parental contact.
b) that he couldn't be bothered and had constructed some kind of woman-blaming, poor me narrative to trot out when asked.
I don't hold with judging women for the behaviour of their male partners, but I'd be seriously curious about why she was overlooking glaring red flags, and worry for any children they may go on to have.

FireflyRainbow · 19/04/2021 23:33

I'd judge. My BIL tells anyone who asks that my SIL is a bitch and stopped him seeing the kids. SIL has shown me texts where he's called the kids ugly and said he wants nothing to do with them and he's got a new son on the way and he's all he needs. Scum bag.

ClarkeGriffin · 19/04/2021 23:36

Yep because why does she think that's correct behaviour? It's literally rewarding him with sex for abandoning his children, and setting yourself up for the next round of abandonment.

It's kind of a wtf moment though when they actually complain that he's scarpered. What did you expect? He's a cunt.

Judge the guy more of course, but you have to give yourself a good slap if you think that kind of man is worthy of being with. And keep slapping yourself until it sinks in that he's a twat who isn't worth anything.

ClarkeGriffin · 19/04/2021 23:47

Women are not to blame for men's behaviour. It is not up to women to make sure that their partners are good dads. Men need to step up and own their actions and we need to start holding men accountable rather then expecting women to be the ones to police them.

But why still pick a man that has proven he's a shit dad?

I know a guy who has 5 kids, 5 different mothers. Hasn't parented any of them, hasn't paid for any of them. Has now buggered off to a new city away from them quite happily. Can get maybe the first two not realising he was a twat, but the last 3? He's well known in the area, they would know about his exs. Why bother with him? There are better options out there.

These men will never change their attitude, no matter what you do. Only thing you can do is stop falling for their lies and making the same mistakes.

Memedru · 20/04/2021 00:12

I would of judged both of them, up until a few months ago!

But my step brother is going through this with his ex, she has spun so many lies it's just crazy! Brother hasnt seen his son in 1 year, my nephew has also refused to see his grandparents, who he was very close with, this all stems from a disagreement they had about my nephew, the ex and her husband even went to my step brothers wedding, they was good friends and co parented very well, but one disagreement and she has blown up!

Stompythedinosaur · 20/04/2021 00:15

I would, yes, though not as harshly as I'd judge the parent to was failing to see their dc.