My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2)

[workworkworkugh]

Just opening a new thread as I believe the other one is getting full.
Will try and link the old one

Absolutely @Nanny0gg My response was to the poster who suggested that the couple go for counselling together. A big no no in an abuse scenario.

Counselling for the OP, and for her son on his own I think is a great idea.

I would continue to try and take out a restraining order against her myself. I would collect every bit of evidence any anything further she says toward that end. She’s a very sick, twisted person.

I would also let him know he was loved and that we do not support or condone his relationship with a person that would threaten anyone’s life, nevermind that of someone in our family. Honestly, this part is incredibly disappointing and he would hear from me some extremely harsh words on this point. Does he think he actually loves his family at all? you? I’d ask him what value he places on his own love of anyone if he would bring this type of person into your lives and allow them to behave this way toward you?

He would be told that due to her behavior she is permanently banned from my house. “You can choose to live your life this way, but I will not.” I would then leave him to it. Refuse to listen to a word of it unless I saw that he sincerely was finished.

I’d also want to tell her parents how sick I find them both. But I doubt they care.

have you investigated family therapy for yourselves OP so that you can examine together in a neutral space what is happening in this dynamic and what the ways out could be? This link is a place to look although the good ones might have a wait, there's unsuprisingly high demand for family therapists at the moment! www.aft.org.uk/page/findatherapist

What drives this girl seems as clear as day from your posts but what has caused your son to feel so much obligation to and love for a girl who appears driven by an intense fear of abandonment and can only feel stable when she has the complete attention and physical presence of her boyfriend seems less so.

OP is not in the UK...try reading the thread

Poor OP, what a nightmare.

Just agreeing with a few other people:

1. Counselling for yourself--not only might it help you deal with this horrific situation, it's a great thing to do as a role model for your son. Do it and talk openly about the fact that you're doing it, and how it's helping you. It might help plant the seed in his brain that he might benefit from individual counselling too.

1. Obviously I'm not a medical professional, but I agree it does sound a lot like Borderline Personality Disorder. I have a book recommendation, "Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist : how to end the drama and get on with life" by Margalis Fjelstad. The focus is on the person in a relationship with the BPD individual, and how they can draw boundaries (whether they leave the relationship or not) and become more aware of how their own behaviour can get them caught up in the drama cycle of their family member or partner.

Again, if you read it hopefully you'll get a few good tips, and your son might also be willing to leaf through it. (You could also start him off with "Loving someone with borderline personality disorder" by Shari Manning--I found it less useful because by the time I read it, I really didn't want to stay in my relationship, but your son might be willing to leaf through something that takes the "here's how to have as healthy a relationship as possible with them" approach as a first step.

1. Definitely document everything, including with police, GP, school, etc. as much as you can--the GF clearly has no compunction about lying so make sure your version of events is clearly documented.

Take care of yourself.

He will see the light, I promise you. He already admits it's abusive some of the time, he just has cognitive dissonance, which will eventually end when he can no longer to deny to himself what she's like, as she'll carry on showing it so often.

I'm expecting in the counsellng she'll just tell them her spin on it unfortunately and they'll believe it. So she'll be going round saying that the counsellor agrees with her about it, as another way of convincing others it's true.

But I think he'll get rid of her fairly soon. Hopefully definitely within the next 6 months.

I think you're doing the right thing OP in taking a step back. Maybe once all the attention and drama is withdrawn from the crazy gf she will start to lose interest - she sounds like the sort who thrives on attention.
Just one thought I had - you mentioned in one of your earlier posts that they attend school together and it's a private school? If it were me I'm afraid I would be explaining to him that we were no longer prepared to spend our hard earned cash on funding an expensive education, due to his and the gf's appalling behaviour, so he'd better start looking at the local state schools and deciding which one he would like to go to? (This would also have the added bonus of getting him away from her during term time). Obviously if he's only got a couple of months to go at school this may not be an option, but maybe worth considering if he was planning to stay there until age 18?
Good luck with whatever you decide - I think you're doing amazingly. I would have fallen apart in your shoes.

That's a good idea about family counselling or counselling for your DS alone.

Might be worth getting someone to help him focus on where the relationship is going?
Does he really want to spend his life with someone who's so possessive.
What's he finding attractive about the possessiveness.

He cannot change her, he can only decide is she is what he wants for the rest of his life and to have children with her.
Hopefully he doesn't see her as life partner material at which point it's better to end it sooner rather than later.

I was going to suggest counselling for the son. He needs to work it out on his own. Plus you respecting his privacy while GF DEMANDS to know what was said, will tell its own story...

I would add that having been in an abusive relationship he needs to know suicide threats will definitely come at the end - part and parcel of this sort of thing. Poor lad. What an introduction to a serious relationship

Does he know this whole nightmare is just hormones in his balls ?
Does he really think this GF is "the one" for life ?
Well Good Luck with that

@AnotherKrampus Blood hell! That poor girl - and it’s very scary that other people do not have the same supervision levels. That it could start so young. Awful. Thank goodness it’s all okay now.

I may have missed this kind of suggestion so forgive me if I’m late to the party but why don’t you arrange a day with him and his friends, a boy thing they would enjoy and take his phone off him for safety once you arrive?

Then if she texts or phones answer and say he’s busy and will be in contact later on. The more you do things like this will help keep his friends and your not ‘obviously’ keeping them apart

[quote SheenMcQueen]@MrsT777

OP has pretty much done that.
GF did trip up. She threatened to go with other boys/suggested he kill his mother/dumped him - That's three massive 'in your face' trips. Her DS isn't interested in seeing them for what they are yet.

My personal (and repeated) suggestion is an intervention. Mates pick him up on Friday night - no argument. Take his phone off him and take him away for a weekend and try and get him to listen to them. He will resist and kick off but one of them could text GF and say it's not his decision. If she kicks off and starts sending abusive texts to the DS mates - she is just strengthening their argument.

A 16 year old isn't listening to advice from parents. But they are still reachable through their peers. I know OP has responded and said that his mates are worried but he keeps bailing on seeing them, which is why I said you should take it to 'intervention' level.

It's what you'd do for any kind of addict (which he is) that wasn't able to see the wood for the trees.[/quote]
Pretty good advice this.

OP I won’t keep on, because I know that it’s hard. But I just had to say one last time - that of course you can say ‘do not see this woman’ and this will not make him ‘run into her arms’. It’s not a question of force. You just say it that’s all. If he responds with ‘but I have to’ then you buy time by saying, can we just agree this for X amount of time and then talk again. In the meantime, no contact with GF. After a death threat that is completely reasonable. In fact I’d probably tell a white lie and say that the police advised no contact.

I’m sorry but there is no way on this earth that I would let my DS continue to use a phone to communicate with his GF if she had told him to kill me and he refused to end it. No way.

Intervention sounds so big, but it has to be.

The time for softly softly passed long ago and his friends actually have a chance to get through to him.

I'm deeply skeptical that the solution to a controlling girlfriend is to be even more controlling then her. She will win that game hands down.

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they're all so convinced (DS, gf and parents) that they are soulmates and perfect for each other to the point of doing everything to keep them together.

I hate it when parents get over-invested in their child's relationships. It's just like the really pushy ones in other aspects of life who force their unwilling kids through grueling extra tuition, extra-curricular activities and so on. They think that if they can live through their children that they are making up for where they fell short in life (marriage breakdown, uninspiring career, no talents, that sort of thing).

Ive been thinking about this ....
I do wonder OP ...

When your Son 'breaks Her rules' as viewed by Her... by wanting to leave to play football .. meet his mates.. stay home.. basically times he does not want to spend with Her...

Has he perhaps used You as the excuse/reason, as a barrier between him and Her control. Does he on occasion use My Mum says I can't, Mum says I need to go home... Mum doesn't want me to...

Im not sure Im making sense, but it suddenly crossed my mind that all her anger and murderous hatred which is directed at You, and unfairly so ... might be because You are used by your Son, as a way of getting out of things..

Therefore You alone are carrying the full weight of her rage OP.

Lordy am I making any sense. I apologise if Im rambling incoherently.

Sorry to hear this. She’s clearly extraordinarily mentally unwell.

I think whatever you do this is going to get more difficult before it gets better.

I agree priority is to keep your son onside at all costs. Whilst still setting your boundaries. Really difficult

Oh OP I really feel for you and I hope I am never in your shoes. I really hope it all works out ok and he can move on to a healthy relationship soon. This girl sounds beyond controlling. You are in my prayers.

Have RTT several times.

It sounds like you have tried everything you could think of to end this shitshow. Backing off probably is the best thing to to at this point.

It is pretty clear what her and her parent's motives are. They are all whacked and trash!

Maybe the clever MN can figure out some more things if we knew more about your DS.

Is she his first GF? How do you think he feels about himself?
Social clout is pretty important at that age. I'm wondering if he thinks if he ends it with her, he wouldn't be able to get another gf?

I'm going only from my own very similar experience with my son that I wrote about at the end of the first thread .We did all that has been suggested here , counselling for us as parents , family counselling , and counselling for our son ( she sneaked in to one or two sessions without our knowledge and totally changed the narrative to her advantage ) After that I felt there was no point .I tried also to get his friends involved but they too were sick of all the drama and public displays of verbal and physical abuse that had become the mainstay of their relationship.
Taking a phone or trying to restrain a sixteen year old is virtually impossible.Our son guarded it with his life and trying to restrain a 6ft 2 extremely fit young man only resulted in violence on his part .My husband is a big man and one time champion judo player but still could not restrain our son.
As hard as it is I dont' think that your son will give this girl up until he reaches rock bottom.I had to let it come to that by not giving him any money, no car, no meals cooked , restraining order against the girl and finally when he hit me and his younger brother , calling the police and filing charges for assault. I would have seen it through if he had not then seen the light.He knew that he would then have a criminal record and then his chances where get a job to study would be very difficult .At this stage he was 19 years old so no longer juvenile. I did manage to get his phone in the kerfuffle that resulted in me calling the police and that was the beginning of the end , thankfully.I won't repeat myself as to what happened as I said it all in my other post but he was basically on his own , no money , no friends, no family and no future and facing criminal charges. Hope it all works out for you OP.I know exactly how you feel .It is so hard and so all consuming .I hope it all works out and that you get your lovely son back.

.

@BlueDahlia69 makes a good point that your son may have used you to defend time he didn't want to spend with her.

I think you're doing the right thing by changing direction. You have exhausted all avenues. I think the key strong message you need to keep saying is 'we can no longer help you, we have tried to show you how wrong this is, that it is abusive and your girlfriend needs serious help. Until she gets that help and is no longer abusive to anyone OR you break up then you must deal with the consequences. However, at the point you make it right by cutting ties then we are absolutely here for you and will always love you but we cannot stand there and support the poor choices you are making right now.'

The key message being you still love him and will support him when he needs you but in choosing her now he is saying no to needing you as your opinions are opposed.

@cameocat

thank goodness it made some sense... I struggled to convey what I meant 🌸