My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2)

[workworkworkugh]

Just opening a new thread as I believe the other one is getting full.
Will try and link the old one

Yes, take a step back. As recommended in previous posts.
Partly so that you are a busy, interesting person with a full life of your own, deserving respect ---- not a fussing, sad woman, making his and the gf's lives difficult.

Fake it until you can make it. Tell him it's his life and it's up to him.
Concentrate on your other DCs.

I honestly think leaving him to it now might be the best tactic in the long run. It takes the whole star crossed lovers element out of it. If you aren't forbidding it then I would hope she will soon get bored because the drama has gone out of it.grey rock now all the way

You've done all you can now OP. You must sit back and let whatever is going to happen, happen. The more you try to split them up the more they will fight to stay together. Her parents are not going to do anything useful. Speak to DS calmly and say you will now stay out of the relationship, but you will always be there and will help him when he needs it. Give him The Freedom Program book. Its short and easy reading and he will at some point recognise his gf there.

@NotDavidTennant

I'm deeply skeptical that the solution to a controlling girlfriend is to be even more controlling then her. She will win that game hands down.

That isn’t right. Good boundaries are the opposite to controlling behaviour. It is not playing the game.

Dear OP. I'm so sorry that you're going through this and I find your strength absolutely incredible. It might help for you to keep a physical copy of the posts you've written on here as a diary of sorts. I've worked in DV services for the past six years and personally never come across something as toxic at such a young age.
I do wonder what she is getting out of this though. Is it the drama? Being the center of attention? Apologies of you've already answered this but has she had any previous partners that someone may be able to contact to see how that relationship ended?

@StarsonaString yes it was very painful but it is what it is.

My brother last lost all his friends over the years and its been so long since I had a relationship with him, i can't remember what it was like before she came on the scene.

Unfortunately both my nieces are mirroring their mum's behaviour now and are very manipulative and emotionally draining. For my elderly parents sake stepping back had been the only thing they could do.

Nothing snuffs out OTT romance and feelings quicker than a dose of reality and everyday mundane life. I also agree with stepping back and if necessary letting your son fall flat on his face, metaphorically speaking. Her theatrics and drama llama antics will get old a hell of a lot sooner when you are not feeding it. Plus, you need to focus on your other DS and yourself. In a way, the advice given to first aiders really applies here, the first rule is to keep yourself safe and free from harm. This is all taking too much of a toll and your son is not entirely innocent either by refusing to accept rules and being out of order to you, including bringing all of this drama into your life.

Also, given his age, shame on him for completely downplaying her asking him to kill you. I must confess, I would personally struggle to reconcile his utter betrayal and disloyalty and at this point bow out.

I'm not suggesting you do this of course, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be winding the gf up big time - not by text obviously, but by phone - I'd get a new SIM and I'd call her once a day and very cheerfully tell her how well your DS is doing without her during the week, how he's off playing his favourite sport, how he's spending so much time with friends etc. etc. to the point where she blows up and sends more expletive texts and videos dumping him to his mobile that you've taken off him - the more the merrier - then after collecting a few videos I'd simply pass the phone over to your DS and tell him, it's over. She doesn't want you anymore.

You could tell him if you wanted that you'd called her a couple of times to see how she is and to let her know that you're doing well.
It'll be her word against yours.
She needs traps.

Whilst i can see why people are suggesting to step back completely and let him learn the hard way, the only thing about that is her parents are totally on board with them being together. It's more likely he will dig himself a hole he can never get out of if he's constantly surrounded by her and her parents telling him everything is normal and that they need to make up every time she has a hissy fit, plus at his age he's so much less likely to go back to his own mum for help especially given he's brushed off her suggestion of killing her.

Totally agree @MaMaD1990 her parents will be saying things to him like 'oh, she's just overly sensitive' or 'she needs love' - 'it's her hormones' or some other such bollocks.
There's no way I'd let my son be within 10ft of the vile, abusive, controlling witch.
I would very covertly play her at her own game, and I'd make sure to win - constantly poking her like an angry bear until she's exploding every day - as suggested in my post above.
She's vile and her parents are ENABLERS. It's really that simple at the end of the day.

If this whole thing was reversed, there's no way we'd be into a 48 pages of 'just leave them to it'.

Just to let you know, in this scenario my brother was the vile, abusive one. My parents threw all kinds of money at any girl dumb enough to get involved with him to keep him out of their faces. It didn’t matter how destructive the relationship was (The Hep. C+ former heroin addict with three little kids who was twelve years older than him that he met in rehab? Not a problem...) They paid his rent and bills and bought cars for him and the girls, etc. It would always work out the same way... girls would eventually threaten to call police, my parents would point out all financial help they had been receiving, etc, offer more money and they would go away. He was never charged. Now that my parents are dead, he tried to make me responsible for his life choices. HAHAHAHAHA! I have kids, thanks! Nobody needs a 46 year old adult male hassling them all the time.
*Borderline Personality Disorder.

Hey OP when you spoke to the police, did you speak to the DVLO? Or just whichever constable was at the desk? General police can be so dismissive of these situations but the DVLO's have had additional training. If it wasn't the DVLO, I would recommend going back and asking specifically to speak to them.

@workworkworkugh I am so sorry for what you're going through. You know what, a few days ago, I was al for you going nuclear, keeping him away from her etc. But I think now, after some more thought, that that will just continue to play into their narrative of being star crossed lovers. I think you are probably right to therefore step back as you have mentioned.

Look up motivational interviewing. It's a strategy I use with counselling clients who are resistant to change or who can't acknowledge their own contribution to their difficulties. It is a way of talking and connecting without putting them into defensive mode. You might find it helpful while trying this new approach.

Good luck.

My guess is she is holding something over him. He seems to understand what is wrong but not able or strong enough to take action. I suspect she has threatened suicide if he leaves, or she has nude photos or something he is desperate got no one to know about. I truly don't know what I would do, given his age. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you and your family

www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/

Freedom programme is available online

Agree @MaMaD1990

Whilst it is tempting to 'step back' and hope the thing implodes without casualty to her DS (and OP has been patient and involved and this is no judgement on her), I agree that allowing him to be exposed to such a manipulative family over a period of time, is the last thing you would want to do.

I know I keep using the word addict - but it's no different really. And to those who have used the word 'cult' - again, it's not a cult but these people have a 'hold' over him, and leaving him to be further brainwashed by them will only isolate him further I think. It's not the path I'd take, even though OP must be on her knees by now.

I am fairly sure the GF parents are clinging on to him because they haven't been able to 'fix' their DD so they are passing the buck to him. He cannot be made responsible for her mental wellbeing - but he is - and her parents are encouraging him because they have failed and are hoping he will make it all 'go away'.

They need to get her properly assessed - not take her to some wishy-washy councillor who will validate all her bullshit.

And OP needs to come down hard and risk him 'hating' her for a while but at least hating her from the safety on his own home. I STILL think peer intervention is 100% the best next step.

@VenusTiger

I'm not suggesting you do this of course, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be winding the gf up big time - not by text obviously, but by phone - I'd get a new SIM and I'd call her once a day and very cheerfully tell her how well your DS is doing without her during the week, how he's off playing his favourite sport, how he's spending so much time with friends etc. etc. to the point where she blows up and sends more expletive texts and videos dumping him to his mobile that you've taken off him - the more the merrier - then after collecting a few videos I'd simply pass the phone over to your DS and tell him, it's over. She doesn't want you anymore.

You could tell him if you wanted that you'd called her a couple of times to see how she is and to let her know that you're doing well.
It'll be her word against yours.
She needs traps.

Utterly ridiculous. Why stir things up even more?

In the UK, it is extremely difficult for someone with a diagnosis of BPD to get a counsellor to take them on. Why? Because it's universally recognised that they rewrite history to suit themselves - and therefore, it's a waste of everyone's time and efforts to counsel them.

Like others, @workworkworkugh, I say that she needs a MH assessment and not counselling... but it's out of your control, sadly. I suspect that if she were your child, you would have sought help for her long before this. Could you talk to her mother? Express your concerns and try to get her on side with seeking proper help for her child before it's too late and she does something not only daft but unfixable? Do they know that she was inciting your son to murder you? If not, then they need to - because realistically, they might be next on her shit-list.

My daughter tried to kill me 3 times because I wouldn't enable her behaviours - I didn't press charges, but actually? I ought to have done so. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. When she was growing up, I wasn't the one enabling her behaviours - my parents were. She ruled the family, deliberately hurt her baby brother, lied about his father (who hasn't spoken a word to her in 14 years, despite having been her father-figure from the time she was a baby) in an effort to break us up (it did, but she knew full well I knew she'd lied). She hates me because I can see through her. I suspect the girlfriend is similar towards you OP - you recognise her bull and are happy to call her out on it. But if I were you, I'd also be wondering as to exactly what she's threatened, or has hold of, that frightens your son into staying with her so much. Because there will be something, I'm afraid. Has she sent him images which could be construed as pornographic? Is she likely to tell the police that he has them and get him into trouble, or to have told him this is what she will do, if he walks away from her?

Yes that’s a good point. Maybe she has something over him. It could explain some of the behaviours eg knowing that she is abusive but being hysterical about not seeing her. May be worth exploring?

@Pottedpalm it's not "utterly ridiculous" watching your CHILD being bullied and abused right in front of your eyes.
I've said I would do this - you're damn right I bloody would, the GF needs exposing big time and I would do it in a way that only proves who she really is as much as possible without any violence of any sort.
She needs to keep tripping over herself.

That is not ridiculous.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56831201

SEND this to your son

Sorry didn't mean to put send in capitals

[quote VenusTiger]@Pottedpalm it's not "utterly ridiculous" watching your CHILD being bullied and abused right in front of your eyes.
I've said I would do this - you're damn right I bloody would, the GF needs exposing big time and I would do it in a way that only proves who she really is as much as possible without any violence of any sort.
She needs to keep tripping over herself.

That is not ridiculous.[/quote]

Sorry but it is a ridiculous idea.

There is no excuse for using tactics worthy of the GF and there's a high chance it could backfire massively - such as the OP being accused of harassment.

Equally if she behaved in ways similar to the GF you both normalise and legitimatise it to the son.

It's a hugely frightening, frustrating and emotional situation, which is exactly why a "cool head" has to prevail.

At 16 he can move out and from the sounds of it his GF's parents would offer him their home - at which point the OP loses all possible ability to keep tabs in his well being and offer an alternative narrative.

OP, given your updates I think you're right to back off. Upping the ante at this point feels counterproductive if the Police can't be of much assistance.

Let him see her but back off from the drama. You're done. You don't want to talk about it. He's chosen this and you're finished with picking up the pieces and consoling him.

He doesn't want to do his sport/see friends/go out with family - fine. Focus on your other children and crack on having a good time without him (hard I know but don't let it show). She's still not welcome in the house though.

I get the feeling the GF enjoys butting heads with you as much as controlling your son. You can at least deny her one aspect of pleasure in this.

This resonates so much with relationships that a family member has had and is currently having. The mother has been through the exact same situation as you so I can sympathise