My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2)

[workworkworkugh]

Just opening a new thread as I believe the other one is getting full.
Will try and link the old one

Hi OP, it sounds like you are doing everything you can, but you need some outside help.

I'm not sure how it works in Aus, but here, I think I would contact social services to report a safeguarding concern for the girl. She is experiences mental health crises and making threats to kill. Her parents are not safeguarding her.

I would also discuss the welfare of my son as he is being abused. I think it needs a multi agency approach and the police on their own may not have the resources/jurisdiction for a lot of the issues.

I've just read through your last thread.

I feel absolutely awful for you and your family. I really hope your DS can see some sense and walk away.

[quote workworkworkugh]@ThumbWitchesAbroad I have asked him, it's like he just wants to ignore it as if he admits how bad it is then he will have to leave her and that's not what he wants.
He brushed it off and just said he would never do it and she didn't mean it.[/quote]
Well that's some kind of relief that he says he would never do it and he thinks she was "joking" (she wasn't) - but yeah, I totally get that he can't admit that because then he would have to face up to what sort of person she really is.

The "addiction" similarity is a little disturbing too - she's like crack to him, and even though he knows it's bad for him, he can't give it up.

I think you do need to get some official involvement though OP - the Police and see if Social Services will help as well as they are 16.

I dont think you can do this on your own anymore. Everyone involved needs proper help

I wonder if now taking a totally different tack might be worth considering. You have been telling him for months and months how toxic she is, and you have been trying to part them (for obvious reasons and quite right!). It's not been successful and I think it's clear that it won't suddenly become successful.

What about telling him that you are done. It's his life. You feel he is making mistakes he will regret the rest of his life. All his friends and family think he is making mistakes he will regret the rest of his life. But you have done all you can to help him see this, with no effect. If he is determined to ruin his life, for the sake of a mentally ill girl who clearly does not really love him and who will not be happy until he is a smoldering wreck, then you will no longer stand in his way.

Put the ball in his court. You're done. He's welcome to her!

Without you to butt up against any longer, this might frighten him. Just check out and lavish your time and money on his siblings. Lots of fun family outings and treats without him. I'd even consider planning a holiday (overnight) to somewhere you know he'd love, but do not include him (If he objects then you say "Oh, I never dreamt you'd want to go").

He's been the centre of your family life long enough and your love and support may indirectly have been enabling him. Enough!

I'm confused about whats happened with the police. What did they say when you reported it? At the very least I'd be pushing on them to do something and asking what you should do.

I have been reading the entire thread and the initial one the past few days and absolutely disgusted by this girls parents. She needs help. She clearly has issues and a normal parent would have taken her to the GP or to a psychologist by now. Can you report her parents for negligence? Get whatever child protection safety office to contact them? I actually cannot fathom how they have allowed her to act like this.

@tentimesaday

I wonder if now taking a totally different tack might be worth considering. You have been telling him for months and months how toxic she is, and you have been trying to part them (for obvious reasons and quite right!). It's not been successful and I think it's clear that it won't suddenly become successful.

What about telling him that you are done. It's his life. You feel he is making mistakes he will regret the rest of his life. All his friends and family think he is making mistakes he will regret the rest of his life. But you have done all you can to help him see this, with no effect. If he is determined to ruin his life, for the sake of a mentally ill girl who clearly does not really love him and who will not be happy until he is a smoldering wreck, then you will no longer stand in his way.

Put the ball in his court. You're done. He's welcome to her!

Without you to butt up against any longer, this might frighten him. Just check out and lavish your time and money on his siblings. Lots of fun family outings and treats without him. I'd even consider planning a holiday (overnight) to somewhere you know he'd love, but do not include him (If he objects then you say "Oh, I never dreamt you'd want to go").

He's been the centre of your family life long enough and your love and support may indirectly have been enabling him. Enough!

Fully, fully, fully agree with this!! As a mother who has had 2 teenagers, (1 much more challenging than the other!), and was a pretty challenging one myself, I found that making them responsible for themselves, no matter how hard it is, is the only way.

Keep the door open, but let him appreciate what it is really like! We all want the stuff we can't have so much more, and the reality is the police are aware, schools are aware, friends are aware, so no really long term harm is likely to come to him, or you.

Stop letting it be the focus! The reality is he could up and leave and there is nothing you can do about it. So let him stand by his actions and he will probably be bored and fed up in a few short months!!

@workworkworkugh

I feel like there's literally nothing more we can do. Everyone is saying we should take his phone off him, basically lock him inside the house, that sounds great in theory but just doesn't work. We can't exactly uproot our whole lives and affect the lives of our other children to move away, which he wouldn't come anyway and doesn't have to as he is 16.

I think I'm giving up.
We had a chat before and he did a quiz with me about abusive relationships where he scored a 60+ that wasn't enough to convince him, we talked about if I weren't with his dad and I had a boyfriend that did those things to me and he admitted he would hate it and think it was shit, we talked about if his friends were in a relationship like his and he admitted it wouldn't be good, but then turns around and says that it's all just my opinion and he doesn't want to hear it!

Nothing is getting through to him, he has his eyes on the prize and that is apparently seeing her as soon as he can get to her.

I asked what his boundaries are, what is his limit, he couldn't answer, I gave him some suggestions but he wasn't sure. I mean if she can tell him to kill me and that doesn't end the relationship then he clearly has no limit at all!

My DH is around and involved, he just internalises a lot and often doesn't say the right things which can make a situation worse and DS and I have always been closer and that's why I've mainly taken the lead in a sense with this.
DH is definitely involved in all decisions and conversations.
He's getting more and more furious by the day and I can see he's about to flip and go nuclear on the whole thing, he's worried for my mental health and wants me to get police involved officially to, and I quote, "let the little bitch know she can't get away with this", he definitely has a way with words 🙊

I'm exhausted and our poor other kids are missing out on their mum while my mental capacity is taken up with all of this.

(DH) wants me to get the police involved officially

I thought you had got them involved and they were useless. If you haven’t done it officially, this is perhaps where your problem lies. Idk how the police in Aus operate but they’re no longer able to go round to people’s houses to shake some sense into teens, to give them warnings etc.

If you haven’t gone official route, what is stopping you?

If your ds sees the police taking the threat seriously, he will struggle to ignore the threats. It could actually also be doing this girl a favour. She will be on someone’s radar and hopefully get an assessment. If she does and is found to be suffering from a mental illness, she will hopefully agree to get help and this may solve your problem.

I too thought police had been officially involved and they should be. A threat to life is very serious especially from a damaged and very unhinged teen.

"I think it's particularly worrying that your son's girlfriend was bold enough to tell you why she has a problem with you to your face and in front of her parents. This suggests that she actually believes she is totally reasonable. There is no telling what someone this deluded might do."

Unfortunately, if the girlfriend does have a personality disorder - she'll be well-versed in rewriting history to suit her own ends/needs. So it may not be that she believes she's being reasonable... but more that she actually believes it to be the absolute truth.

My daughter has a diagnosis of NPD with traits of EUPD. When she's medicated she can be the loveliest person in the world - but when she's decided there's nothing wrong with her, I'm "out to get her", I colluded with the psychologist and doctors who diagnosed and prescribed anti-psychotic medication for her because I "didn't like" or "hated" her and she stops taking her meds? She's dangerous. Goes from 0-90 in the blink of an eye.

Unfortunately, OP, I see a lot of my daughter's behaviour in your son's girlfriend. If her parents are doing nothing, or very little, to get their child help - or simply to help you bring about an end to this "relationship" (although it seems more like a hostage situation, with your son suffering from Stockholm Syndrome!) - then I would elevate the situation. Keep reporting her to the police. Talk to the school and get them on side. Involve (or simply threaten to) Social Services. She is guilty of incitement to murder, for crying out loud - why aren't the police taking it seriously?!

Eventually either her parents will see sense - or simply do something to get her help, if only to get you (the police/social services/the school) off their backs. But they may simply be bewildered by the sudden change in their child - as another poster with a child suffering from BPD (and believe me, it is an illness), they literally change overnight. I was begging our GP for help to "fix" my daughter from the time she was 13 years old (she's 24 now) - and they did nothing. It took the police pushing for a mental health assessment of her, when she lied to them about me being abusive in order to have me arrested (I was, but never charged thank goodness) and her younger brother (of whom she becomes extremely jealous at times) put into care (he wasn't), for her to get the help that she needed. Nothing I, as her parent, said or did helped. Perhaps her parents are in a similar bind.

Unfortunately, the more you tell your son to end it etc., at 16 he's not likely to. You could end up simply pushing him further into her arms. Just let him know that you're there if he needs you, that you love him, that you have his back no matter what. Keep a weather eye. But don't nag. You don't want to push it into crisis mode, whatever else happens because if that happens? You may well lose him to her, or the judicial system, permanently.

Good luck.

OP, what exactly did the police say when you talked to them? You said they didn't help, but you haven't mentioned what they did say. Or what their excuse for inaction was when you told them she tried to have you killed. Your family is being stalked by a psychopath who's already committed at least one crime, and yet you tell us that the authorities are completely helpless. This is seeming a bit unlikely.

@tentimesaday

I wonder if now taking a totally different tack might be worth considering. You have been telling him for months and months how toxic she is, and you have been trying to part them (for obvious reasons and quite right!). It's not been successful and I think it's clear that it won't suddenly become successful.

What about telling him that you are done. It's his life. You feel he is making mistakes he will regret the rest of his life. All his friends and family think he is making mistakes he will regret the rest of his life. But you have done all you can to help him see this, with no effect. If he is determined to ruin his life, for the sake of a mentally ill girl who clearly does not really love him and who will not be happy until he is a smoldering wreck, then you will no longer stand in his way.

Put the ball in his court. You're done. He's welcome to her!

Without you to butt up against any longer, this might frighten him. Just check out and lavish your time and money on his siblings. Lots of fun family outings and treats without him. I'd even consider planning a holiday (overnight) to somewhere you know he'd love, but do not include him (If he objects then you say "Oh, I never dreamt you'd want to go").

He's been the centre of your family life long enough and your love and support may indirectly have been enabling him. Enough!

I think OP should consider this. The parents very understandable concern is feeding the drama and she is probably loving it. It's all about drama, no drama and it will all start to seem a bit boring.

Lots of fun family outings and treats without him. I'd even consider planning a holiday (overnight) to somewhere you know he'd love, but do not include him (If he objects then you say "Oh, I never dreamt you'd want to go").

The risk with this is it plays right into her narrative - oh your family hates you, look how they're not even inviting you places, they've rejected you because you're with me, they're abandoning you, they never loved you in the first place...oh and why don't you move in with me and my family.

I guess the trick is to do this, while also making it very clear that the door is wide open for him to return to the fold, no blame, no shame, no questions asked when the scales fall from his eyes. Maybe even tell him "this is how she's going to spin it, that we are rejecting you, but that's not true" etc.

I still think a BBQ at your house this weekend (or maybe every weekend!!) with all his mates whether he wants it or not is something to try, especially if they all want to see him. Maybe before/after a sporting fixture so it will be even more awkward if he peels off to be with her instead and makes it more obvious how she's the problem.

@tentimesaday

I wonder if now taking a totally different tack might be worth considering. You have been telling him for months and months how toxic she is, and you have been trying to part them (for obvious reasons and quite right!). It's not been successful and I think it's clear that it won't suddenly become successful.

What about telling him that you are done. It's his life. You feel he is making mistakes he will regret the rest of his life. All his friends and family think he is making mistakes he will regret the rest of his life. But you have done all you can to help him see this, with no effect. If he is determined to ruin his life, for the sake of a mentally ill girl who clearly does not really love him and who will not be happy until he is a smoldering wreck, then you will no longer stand in his way.

Put the ball in his court. You're done. He's welcome to her!

Without you to butt up against any longer, this might frighten him. Just check out and lavish your time and money on his siblings. Lots of fun family outings and treats without him. I'd even consider planning a holiday (overnight) to somewhere you know he'd love, but do not include him (If he objects then you say "Oh, I never dreamt you'd want to go").

He's been the centre of your family life long enough and your love and support may indirectly have been enabling him. Enough!

This is exactly what we are going to do (as mentioned previously).

@Satis we went to the police told them/showed them the message and asked what our options were, we were mainly thinking on behalf of DS though.
They said we could get a restraining order on DS behalf but that is no good if he is not on board as he will just ignore it and continue to see her.
He said he sees no imminent threat to me and that it's not like she's around throwing things through our windows etc
He recommended we speak to the parents and speak to DS to see if he will get the order himself (of course he refused)

He did say if there are any other messages or anything happens again that we think is an immediate threat then to call the police.

I had a very similar experience with my daughter when she was 16 - I really feel for you OP, it actually made me suicidal, I was constantly on edge waiting for the police to knock and say her bf had killed her. It's difficult when your child is complicit in their own abuse; as mums we spend our lives protecting them, but then we can't - you end up trying to protect them from themselves, impossible situation

In the end I gave up. I told my daughter I would always be here for her but I wasn't going to be part of the drama anymore, basically 'do what you like!' We'd gotten into a routine where she'd hate me, then they'd fall out, she'd come to me devastated telling me everything he'd done, I'd console her, spend hours talking to her about it, then she'd go back and hate me again for not forgetting everything she'd told me

So if they'd had an argument I didn't encourage her to talk to me about it, I just gave her a hug, then got on with my day. Hardest thing ever because I despised him and I wanted to know what was going on, but I had to accept defeat, I really couldn't protect her anymore so had to protect myself and my other DC.

Once I removed myself from it their relationship ended pretty quickly - literally within the month! Maybe a coincidence; I'm sure there's other families going through the same thing where my approach hasn't worked and maybe pushed them closer but thankfully it did for us.

I really wish you all the luck in the world OP, I hope this reaches a peaceful conclusion and your son comes out the other end unharmed. I have a great relationship with my daughter now, I couldn't envisage that then, but once the toxicity went I got my lovely girl back - best wishes to you.

We have also been informed that the GF is going to be attending counselling as of next week. As long as she tells the truth to get the help she needs.

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they're all so convinced (DS, gf and parents) that they are soulmates and perfect for each other to the point of doing everything to keep them together.
I wouldn't even recommend a friend who'd been married 20 years with kids and financial entanglement stay in a relationship like this.

""In the end I gave up. I told my daughter I would always be here for her but I wasn't going to be part of the drama anymore, basically 'do what you like!' We'd gotten into a routine where she'd hate me, then they'd fall out, she'd come to me devastated telling me everything he'd done, I'd console her, spend hours talking to her about it, then she'd go back and hate me again for not forgetting everything she'd told me

So if they'd had an argument I didn't encourage her to talk to me about it, I just gave her a hug, then got on with my day. Hardest thing ever because I despised him and I wanted to know what was going on, but I had to accept defeat, I really couldn't protect her anymore so had to protect myself and my other DC.

Once I removed myself from it their relationship ended pretty quickly - literally within the month! Maybe a coincidence;""

This is encouraging to read. This is what we are going to do and I know it will be hard, especially for me as I wear my heart on my sleeve!
Hopefully it wasn't a coincidence and we have the same outcome 🤞

I wish people would stop with the, "you'll push him into her arms if you're too harsh" bollocks.

This isn't some fucking silly teen boy whose girlfriend is a bit wayward - smokes a bit, known to have done some minor shoplifting, mum doesn't want her lovely boy seen with her type of scenario.

This is deadly serious with a psychopath involved and kid gloves is NOT how to deal with this.

And if OP's DH wants to go nuclear he bloody well should!

My DDs bf's parents encouraged her to get her implant removed (at 16) so she'd fall pregnant and (in their sick heads) they'd have more chance to get a house and move in together 😳 His mum used to run my daughter a bath after he raped her, presumably to get rid of any evidence. They were 100% complicit in abusing my daughter - don't judge the parents by your own standards, their daughter has learned this behaviour from somewhere. They'll be using your son to keep her happy (their version of happy at least!)

Get.the.restraining.order.for.yourself!! What on earth are you waiting for? This little shit spoke about killing you, and you're going to wait to see if she brings it up again before taking action?! I'm sorry but that makes no sense to me. What if sue simply doesn't say it, but plans to actually carry it out?

I know that sounds crazy, but please remember that this little girl is mentally unstable, you don't know what she's capable of.

Let your OH get the Police to throw the book at her, threats to kill, WTF?
She needs at the very least a restraining order from your family and him (up to him if he still wants to see her I guess but at least he will see the threat is real and serious and being taken as such by the law and you'll have it on record if God forbid, something happens!)
Block her on his phone and get some out of town stuff scheduled with his sport/mates, if you can.
I know it's easy for us to say looking from the outside but is there any way he can move school? How would school view a restraining order for her, would they expel her?

I think you're wise to step back. She's enjoying the emotional drama and using it to play the victim with him and make him feel he needs to be loyal to her. Grey rock the entire relationship so that she gets no more supply from you.

I think people think the police are far more helpful in these situations than they are in real life. I had threats from the bf to kill me (in texts) - my daughter had reported him for rape in her more lucid moments (obviously withdrew the reports as soon as they were back together) The police did a grand total of fuck all. In fact, in some ways they made it worse as their lack of action played in to their narrative (my dd, the bf and his parents) that it was no big deal and it was just me who had the problem.

Look at Karpmans triangle OP - the only way to deal with her is to remove yourself from it.

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they're all so convinced (DS, gf and parents) that they are soulmates and perfect for each other to the point of doing everything to keep them together.

So sorry you're going through this, OP. I can only guess that underneath all the bravado, your DS is probably pretty scared.

He's frightened of losing his girlfriend;
he's frightened OF his girlfriend because she is so unhinged & manipulative;
he's frightened of the police;
but also, he's very likely frightened of losing you and getting cut off from the rest of his family & friends, which he must know is a possibility.

He may be clinging to the gf even more than he normally would because he feels his whole life situation is so precarious -- not realising, or refusing to admit, that she's the root cause of all the instability.

It's a heartbreaking situation and I really hope it works out for your family with everyone safe & sound.