My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2)

[workworkworkugh]

Just opening a new thread as I believe the other one is getting full.
Will try and link the old one

Well he's ended up there. She's at the Mums of course as this never happens when she's at her dads.

It blew up Saturday night because of the dinner he went to and what she messaged to him but he has turned it around and blamed us completely for everything.
It's quite scary some of the things that have happened or we've said how he is twisting and turning it to suit his (and her) narrative and how quickly he does it to suit himself.
For example: he screamed that he hates it with us and wants to leave, we said ok if that's the case you can stay with family to have some space and suddenly he's claiming we don't care about him and are trying to kick him out.

We got his grandparents up to help clam him down and thought he might go and stay with them if he wants some space but he refused and said the only place he is happy is with her.
Despite hours and our best efforts he ended up there with GF and her mum hence the phone call to the mother.

The mother has now messaged us today to say he's welcome to stay there for the week to help his mental health and give him and the family some space and he has agreed to come home next week (while she is at her dads) and get counselling, although we know he's just saying that to get their own way and as soon as next week comes he will refuse counselling again.

I'm mentally exhausted and feel like every turn we take from here can be turned against us.
I have a doctors appointment today and we are not responding until after that.

.

God. This is horrible. How have you not lost your mind with them. You can't win this. He is never going to see the truth of her while you are still there to get the blame. For his own sake I think you need to let him get on with it. Let him know you love him and will be there for him but you can no longer be involved in enabling his relationship anymore while he treats you like shit and lets his girlfriend treat you like shit. As messed up as this girl is, your son is not innocent. He needs to deal with the consequences of his choices.

I've been reading all your updates. I have no idea what uts like to be in your situation or what I would do but years ago when my auntie moved 5 hours at 16 to be in a toxic my nan said she will need me before I need her. Within 6 weeks she needed her and ended toxic relationship.

Its it time for you to back off? Are the restrictions hour putting in making it worse?

You can be there when he needs you and you'll always be there for him but you have other children to think about.

I know DS isn't completely innocent, we're not the type to think our children are perfect angels and we have seen some behaviours from him to prove that, we are well aware.
But we also feel he is so brainwashed by her/them that he is starting to become like her as even family that don't see him often and don't know of the situation have commented that he's not the same kid and looks sad.

We maybe tried to place some 'restrictions' at the beginning which we stopped doing, but otherwise I feel like we've just had normal household rules.
Attend your work shifts, go to training/sports and be respectful in the house.

We also know he will come back in a week, expect us to run around after him like nothing has happened and then when she's back at her Mums he will expect to live there for the week again.

He's the type that if we back right off he will claim that we don't love him or care about him and blame us for his mental health and I'm afraid will feel like he can't come back to us but if we try and help him that is also wrong.
While he's there he never answers our phone calls if she's there (in the past) and she will be monitoring his messages to friends so he is now completely isolated from any support.

OP... you may need to consider letting him go.

She has poisoned him against you.

Im so sorry, this is so horrible.

I agree with the other posters on this page, the time has come for you to let him get on with it. I believe he will return to you, the relationship will end in tears. You've been very patient but it's time to put yourself and your husband before your son who wants to be treated like an adult.

This is terrible.im just hoping that you can talk to your Dr about this and he will have some idea of how to get help.

The mother has named herself as a guardian. I would be VERY clear that this is NOT okay. Soon she will be signing off on medical forms.

You have my every sympathy.

All you can do now is be there for him when he's ready. I don't mean drop everything whenever he texts/calls, but do be clear that you love him, you always will and that you want to improve your relationship. But v important to maintain boundaries ie. don't jump whenever he clicks his fingers eg. if you have an evening out planned and he texts to ask for a ride, let him know you can't make it but that you can help him find a ride, that sort of thing. Expect him to behave respectfully. There will be any times when he won't but never stop expecting it.

He will tire of her, deep down he wants his family and he will eventually figure it out. In the meantime how about support for yourself?

Not sure if you have mentioned but how old are your other sons? What do they think? Do they talk to him about it at all?

I think you've done the right thing but I am now joining the cut hin adrift club. I'm not sure there is anything else you can do, short of moving and uprooting your other children.

He is 16, legally old enough to get married. Just let him get on with his drama. You focus on your own life OP. Just stop engaging with the gf's hysterical nonsense and stop being so completely obsessed with your son's relationship. Let him navigate his own way through this situation. I guarantee that as soon as you GENUINELY withdraw your support and interest and therefore stop skewing the dynamic, he will start to take control of his own life. A huge part of why he maintains this relationship with his gf is to do with resisting you. Your resistance has become a necessary ingredient.

OP, I've been reading both your threads from the start and I have to agree with others – it's time to let him get on with it. For the sake of your marriage, your mental health and your other DC, you need to take a step back and leave him to stew and make his own mistakes. I would, via his grandparents, who seem like a good intermediary, make it clear you are not throwing him out but the situation has become so toxic that you're letting him do what he needs to make him happy and if that means staying with her, so be it even though we know it's really to make her happy. Stop engaging with the parents, who are absolute numpties, and only engage with your DS when he contacts you. Tell his school what's going on and make sure they know where he's living.

So much of her power over him is from retaliating to your involvement – if you stop being involved, she's got nothing to hold over him and he might (as a PP's daughter did) finally realise how poisonous she is.

Well if he kicks off telling you you don't love him and effecting his mental health then remind him you do but you do not want to participate in all.the drama. If he needs you he knows where to find you.

As I would say respect the house rules let me know if your coming or going. If you don't turn up for tea a few times I'll stop cooking you tea. That sort of thing.

Do you think you'd sons attention seeking? This has gone on long enough enough. I would ignore everything that comes out of her mouth. Stop talking to the parents thats going around in circles and cut youd losses. Text your son ask how he is be there for him but ultimately don't engage with the bull shit.

I imagine this is easier said than done. Xx

@workworkworkugh have you contacted an organisation such as Suzy Lampugh Trust, they are a great source of information and guidance on unhealthy relationship as well as stalking behaviour.

@LoudestCat14

OP, I've been reading both your threads from the start and I have to agree with others – it's time to let him get on with it. For the sake of your marriage, your mental health and your other DC, you need to take a step back and leave him to stew and make his own mistakes. I would, via his grandparents, who seem like a good intermediary, make it clear you are not throwing him out but the situation has become so toxic that you're letting him do what he needs to make him happy and if that means staying with her, so be it even though we know it's really to make her happy. Stop engaging with the parents, who are absolute numpties, and only engage with your DS when he contacts you. Tell his school what's going on and make sure they know where he's living.

So much of her power over him is from retaliating to your involvement – if you stop being involved, she's got nothing to hold over him and he might (as a PP's daughter did) finally realise how poisonous she is.

Yep, at the moment everything is twisted back on you, step back and she won't be able to do that and he will likely start seeing what she is really like. I feel sorry for her to be honest, her parents obviously aren't advocating for her and seeking the help she evidently needs.

They did ask us to hold off further action as she was receiving counselling. DH agreed on the provision nothing else was put on social media about me etc or we would take it further.

Her father asked your DH to agree to not take further action, and so he agreed.

You/DH keep giving in to this psycho and her family, no matter what.

Only a court can approve a marriage for anyone under the age of 18 in Australia. It wouldn’t happen. There is no reason for it.

@me4real

Plus I think she's convinced herself that it is true and her behaviour is convincing others it must be true - why else behave to that extreme?

@itsgettingwierd Because she's trying to convince others of a lie. So she has to put a lot of effort into it because there's no other evidence for this lie except her behaviour, because it isn't true. What she wants is attention and to get what she wants.

Of course she can say that someone not letting her have exactly what she wants drives her to (mostly fake) self-harm. That doesn't make it her victim's fault though.

I agree. That's what I was getting at.

She's having to behave this way because it's all she's got.

And she's having to escalate because she has no evidence and it's all she's got to keep control.

It's scary.

The mother is as deluded as her daughter.

He can stay there to give his MH a break? Who the actual feck does she think she is?

I'm beginning to think that the mother is also abusing him and controlling him.

It's almost as if your DS has been brainwashed into joining a cult right now, nothing you say or do is having any effect on him for the moment, so I think you need to take a step back and look after yourself and concentrate on the rest of your family.

DS will eventually come round. Already he's realised that a couple of things she's done, don't come within the usual realms of behaviour. When he's with her 24/7 he'll start to notice and question things more.

People with personality disorders (or traits of) trigger others into polar positions by their extreme behaviours.

You can see this on this thread. Either go in all guns blazing and fight fire with fire or get stuck hand wringing indecisive and confused - it’s basically the fight or freeze reaction to threat and trauma.

The best solution is to step back and step up.

No professional would go head on reacting to all of her words and actions - that’s just engaging with insanity and and giving power and credibility to her irrational behaviours.

You need to be totally indifferent to her crazy words and her smears. Who cares if she manages to convince others - that’s their issue and it’s not something you can control.

In your mind you need to imagine her as the crazy drunk loon ranting in the street - would you engage with this insanity? - would you give value to their words? Would you attempt to debate, discuss, prove another point? Would you go head to head with them?

How would you look if you did?

She is only a bit back on the spectrum than the crazy street drunk. Let her rant and rave - keep others focus trained solely on her behaviour as a crazy monologue......don’t dilute this or get in her way by engaging so that it becomes a dialogue. Let her have the stage to herself.

It’s both futile and counterproductive as you have found. It’s like wack-a-mole and will leave you reeling and exhausted and you are just adding energy / valency to the system to keep it spinning.

As PP have said this keeps the focus on you as her “target of blame” and you are inadvertently providing the tension which your DS resists in this relationship.

Drop the rope and it will all collapse in on itself. It cannot exist without your contribution to this drama triangle.

Read the BDP book recommended earlier as it will help you understand how to deal with these behaviours so that you walk this tight rope effectively and don’t leave your DS feeling abandoned - which is GF plan.

Know that the GF DP need your DS as a carer for their unstable daughter so they are never balanced.

This is like one of these videos where they are trying to rescue a stranded baby deer on a frozen lake ...... there is a delicate and strategic method that requires an informed team approach to this specifically dangerous environment.

Sssloou’s advice above instinctively feels right for you OP.
At last!

Its the best advice I have read for this nightmare situation you find yourself in, - and I have read everything and felt so sad for you, trying to extract something that might help from the conflicting opinions.

Sssloou has made it pretty clear what you should do and why, as this girl is really very sick.
I would take her advice if I were you.

I wish you nothing but the best and hope your appointment today is equally helpful. Your DS will come back to you soon.

Please just step back. Tell DS you love him very much but cannot fight him on this anymore. You pushing against this is forcing them into a unit, they have a common enemy. Perhaps when you take that away he will realise that they don't have anything else to talk about.
Tell him it is up to him how he deals with his relationships. I would also tell him relationships are supposed to be positive experiences, so he might want to work on that. But then wish them well and don't say anything other than "have a good day?" When he comes back and then leave it with a aww shame or a cool depending on whether the answer is positive or negative
That said do not let her into your home. If he asks just tell him that it causes too much drama so no.
Deprive the whole situation of oxygen from your side.

My heart races everytime I read an update. As an outsider this is distressing to read, I can only imagine how it is for your family (I have sons and I guess I'm projecting). I wish I could stop reading, but I keep coming back hoping you have managed to get your son away from this toxic girl. Wishing you all good things and a peaceful resolution.