My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2)

[workworkworkugh]

Just opening a new thread as I believe the other one is getting full.
Will try and link the old one

[quote workworkworkugh]@Sssloou

You are taking this too personally IMHO - your energy seems intense and your anxiety has triggered you into reactive controlling behaviours - which is understandable but not the right way to go. It’s almost like you have lost sight of your own DS in this and you have now found yourself escalating in a pitched battle with a 14 year old girl with MH problems. And if she has BDP you are dealing with a v high suicide / self harm risk. Know that

I understand what your saying in your post, except I’m not sure I agree with this part.
I don’t mention her name in a negative way, I try not to at all but if he’s spent the day with her and they’ve done something fun I’ll ask.
We still have basic house rules that he needs to follow and have tried to help him with boundaries (when he’s receptive to it).
We take him to her house and pick him up when he asks, most of the time unless it is really inconvenient. We’re not stopping them from being together.

But even yesterday he came home from her house crying but wouldn’t say exactly why, we had a dinner last night with extended family for a milestone birthday, he came (by choice, we didn't force him) and had fun but as it was getting later she started blowing up his phone.
We didn’t leave the restaurant until close to 11pm and in the car he was crying, hitting the car and yelling at us to take him to her as he needed to ‘fix things’ as she’d told him she was disappointed in him and he had let her down (and much more I’m sure) for being out with us.
He rushed around there this morning, it’s Mother’s Day here and I have not seen or heard from him and probably won’t, but I won’t even mention it.
He can’t cope with what she’s doing but doesn’t want to seek help.
So we help him through those times and try and stay calm and give advice and still not badmouth her...and then it happens again.

We’ve taken a huge step back, I’m not sure what else we can do?[/quote]
Apologies if I've missed this as not caught up with this thread for a bit, but is your DS having counselling to support his MH and understand this behaviour isn't normal from her part? Just a thought if you've not already done this. It just sounds so very concerning, and clearly her own parents are useless

Tbh, if I were fighting for my child, I’d be looking into grooming laws, etc. Those parents encouraged(pressured even) your son to “engage” with their batshit daughter while he was underage. There is absolutely no question of this and you have evidence. I can’t understand how you have allowed a 15 year old girl to hold your whole family hostage like this either.

OP, this sounds so exhausting for you and your son. I honestly don't know what I would do in your position.

I agree that getting your son a good therapist is a good start. One who understands coercive control and will help him understand this relationship.

I think your son loves her but also has the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt). He is a good person and knows that her happiness and perhaps even her life depends on him. That's a HUGE responsibility for a 16 year old. He needs professional support for that alone.

He was clearly panicking in the car, she must have threatened suicide or self harm for him to be that stressed.

I hope you can get help and support for both him to and you 💐

Happy Mother’s Day to you. From where I’m sitting, you are doing a great job with it. Trying to balance a LOT of plates. I hope your son lets you know today how much he loves you.

As an aside, I am gobsmacked about the criticism you get on here. Seems you can’t do right. When all’s said and done, we are reading tiny snippets, you are living this nightmare. I can’t imagine how hard this must be on you.

@workworkworkugh
I've read everything and you sound sad, frustrated, angry and exhausted- quite bloody rightly.

Your local police are not helping, your liaison know them personally, her family are supporting her bad behaviour and your son is of an age you can't make him do anything.

The only things I can think of are:
✔ New police liaison when you can
✔ Speak to his friends to understand their views - can they influence?
✔ More pressure on school safeguarding - make them aware of the phone harassment

Ticks don't mean they're good ideas - just all I got
You are a fab mum, Happy Mother's Day

Completely agree @TheMamaYo. The OP is posting for support not criticism. And she know her son better than anyone on here. People like to give orders rather than advice sometimes.

Happy Mother’s Day @workworkworkugh. Hopefully by next Mother’s Day this will be long over.

I’m quite worried for your DS’s mental health by your description of how he was in the car after your meal out. He’s obviously under a lot of pressure from her. What do you think might have happened if you had asked him what he thought of how she was behaving?

I wonder if refusing to take him to her after the meal as it was so,late and suggesting you took his phone for him so he wasn’t seeing her messages and then you messaging or calling her parents and telling them to tell her he didn’t have his phone and was going home and would speak to her in the morning would have gone?

Her behaviour is ridiculous. Her parents are completely useless.

Another suggestion/idea. I know she hates you but I wonder would she be open to meet you to talk just the two of you. A calm chat to clear the air. You shouldn’t have to ‘parent’ her but maybe talking to her and trying to find out what is going on in her head might enable you to reassure her? For instance ask her why she was constantly messaging him when he was out with family. What did she think he was doing? How does she think that makes him feel? Not in any accusing way but to try to get her on side. As the saying goes you catch more bees with honey!

I’m at a loss as to what to suggest otherwise. Other than trying to get your DS to speak to a counsellor so he has a safe space to talk.

My heart is breaking for you @workworkworkugh, I can hear your pain in your posts. No real advice from me as I've no experience, but just know MN is here to listen if you need it.
Happy mother's day

@workworkworkugh thankyou for reading and responding thoughtfully to my post.

I am impressed that your were able to reflect objectively on my observations of the dynamics and trust from your response that you didn’t take these as criticisms even though it would have been uncomfortable for you in your current distress.

I am interested how you felt about the rest of the post beyond the paragraph that you said you were not sure that you agreed with.

I have been (still am) in this dynamic with my own son. They met when he was 14 and she was 15. I am happy for you to PM me for details as I don’t want to derail your thread with my story.

As you have found normal social rules / interventions don’t work when you are dealing with the cauldron of emotional dysregularity / personality disorder traits and emotional abuse and in-fact they often back fire and inflame the situation.

There is a much more intricate approach required to de escalate the emotional intensity in order to safely extricate your DS from this RS.

You need to step back AND step up - applying emotional intelligence strategically to the situation.

It’s not a new or unique situation. There are many professionals working in this field who have the insight and expertise to support and navigate you all through and out the other side of these intense, complex, risky, painful, exhausting and relentless cycles.

It’s a very volatile dynamic and there is zero point engaging in the details of insanity / irrationality where you can become so drawn in you are unable to see the wood for the trees and where your own DS, marriage, other DCs, your own emotional health and family life can inadvertently suffer and deteriorate by being progressively polluted by all of this.

You need to bring some emotional intelligence and an emotional strategy to this situation.

Consider it a relationship “system” with inputs of energy, cogs and wheels and outputs.

The cogs and wheels are each of the individuals, the inputs are the intensity, frequency and tone of the behaviours that you CHOOSE to add to the system - ie when, if and how you RESPOND (not react) to incidents - whilst knowing this is the only moving part that you can control which will influence the outputs so needs to be considered and implemented wisely.

It’s nothing new or unique. There are ways of managing this much more effectively.

You need the expert insight and support of professionals in this field because you are not dealing with normal here - so normal rules don’t apply.

You need a sustainable strategy to de escalate this situation. You need to shift gears in this dynamic because the current process isn’t working - currently there is clashing, crunching, grinding and screeching in this dysfunctional set up causing more and more pain.

You are the one who needs to shift gears because the other cogs and wheels in this system (GF, DS, her DPs) are not motivated to and don’t have the emotional capacity to do so.

You need and deserve professional help to be able to do this.

I wish you a relaxing mother’s day and hope that you can take the time and space to hold on to the hope that there is another way through this.

Thank you @Sssloou . I take all suggestions on board.
I am seeking further help tomorrow, even just for myself.

Here's another snippet of what we're dealing with, things have escalated further tonight, I won't bother with details. But I did need to call the GF's Mum and her suggestion to me was that maybe DS & GF do some relationship counselling together
Absolutely utterly ridiculous (and terrifying to me) suggestion.

They are absolutely determined to force your son to continue with the relationship, aren't they
I guess their life is much easier, with your DS around to deflect some of her behaviour from them, to him

Bloody hell that is a scary suggestion by her parents. relationship counselling for a teen romance!

Sounds like they are relying upon your DS to help solve their problems. Poor boy!

Maybe the relationship counseling would be a good idea, if the counselor were to tell them how ridiculous they both are putting up with that behaviour at such a young age! I feel for you OP, must be such a hard situation to be in.

Happy Mother's Day

It's so sad to hear he's crying and thinking that when he's crying he has to go around and fix it.

She's done a complete number on him. That poor boy.

Sounds like you are doing what you can to support him but I doubt many people who aren't qualified psychologists could know how to tackle this effectively.

Relationship counselling for a child! I actually find the parents attitude equally as disturbing as their daughter. Not a surprise though really, is it.

I think the girls parents need counselling! They are not fit to be parents! I also agree with other people who think the parents want your son around as it takes the heat of them!

@workworkworkugh Happy Mother’s Day (although it’s the very early morning of Monday where you are!)

I hope you find some professional support for yourself. You’ve been amazing.

Relationship counselling is not what’s needed here- @workworkworkugh as I know you know. The girlfriend needs help on her own. Do all you can to stop your son taking part in anything like that.

Relationship counselling is NEVER advised with an abusive partner - it just opens up the vulnerable partner to further exploitation, manipulation and abuse.

Although I can see how the GF’s DP are keen to cement this enmeshed and dysfunctional relationship.

I am glad you are seeking professional support for yourself it will allow you to gain perspective, reset and devise a professionally informed program to tackle this. Keep your cards close to your chest.

A very helpful book is ‘When your daughter has BPD’ by Daniel S Lobel. If you google it there is a preview where you can read the first chapters for free. He is a psychiatrist and an expert who helps families dealing with this kind of situation. Xxx

@duckyegg thank you for that book recommendation - just read some of the preview - excellent and enlightening content which would really help to guide and inform OP through this very difficult situation.

Relationship counselling for teens ? I'd suggest counselling for them both individually

Omg! Grooming!!!

Plus I think she's convinced herself that it is true and her behaviour is convincing others it must be true - why else behave to that extreme?

@itsgettingwierd Because she's trying to convince others of a lie. So she has to put a lot of effort into it because there's no other evidence for this lie except her behaviour, because it isn't true. What she wants is attention and to get what she wants.

Of course she can say that someone not letting her have exactly what she wants drives her to (mostly fake) self-harm. That doesn't make it her victim's fault though.

@Sssloou

Relationship counselling is NEVER advised with an abusive partner - it just opens up the vulnerable partner to further exploitation, manipulation and abuse.

Although I can see how the GF’s DP are keen to cement this enmeshed and dysfunctional relationship.

I am glad you are seeking professional support for yourself it will allow you to gain perspective, reset and devise a professionally informed program to tackle this. Keep your cards close to your chest.

this 🌸

Don't engage with her parents any more.. they are enabling all of her behaviour 😳