My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2)

[workworkworkugh]

Just opening a new thread as I believe the other one is getting full.
Will try and link the old one

Christ this girl sounds really fucking ill. What is wrong with her parents. Why aren't they getting her help.

I think she realises that your DS is slowly coming to his senses and you are prising him away for her. She is doubling down now so it may get worse before it gets better. Hang on in there.

The turning point for me in my abusive relationship was: what do you think you could do to stop (partner) acting the way they do?

Long list of things I'd tried but still resulted in abuse.

But what actually do you think you can do to make (partner) treat you better?

It was only when I had the lightbulb moment that there was literally NOTHING I could do to make (partner) happy that I realised the one thing I had in my power was to leave the relationship. If there was nothing I could do to make (partner) happy, I could do something to make myself happy and leave the relationship. Better one person happy (me) than both of us unhappy.

This sounds truly awful. The only vague way to escalate/reinforce what you're saying may be to alert the school (if they're still at school) or college to the images of self-harm. This should pick up on their safeguarding radar, and they may be able to pursue as a separate issue to the concerns you have already raised, but via some different channels.

I'm so sorry this is still going on and shocked that no one is doing anything to help you, @workworkworkugh.

To answer a few questions, and sorry for not tagging people, I'm shocking at remembering names...
I believe he told her that he couldn't come as he was sick, I didn't see the msg but I do believe him. I'm sure he may have used us an excuse in the past but I don't think it would be often from what I have seen/heard/been told.

As far as social services, I did speak to someone and unless DS is willing to engage there is nothing they can do to help him. They can't do much in terms of helping me as I'm not in a relationship with the party (GF) so it's not classed as domestic violence/abuse and as far as the parents, they are getting her counselling which is a step in the right direction so I don't believe anyone would get involved as how they parent is their business.

Yes I have brought up to the police many times that if it was a male doing this to a female their reaction would be different and I was told that it has nothing to do with their advice.
All online things I have read regarding toxic teenage relationships say one of the main warning signs is isolating themselves from friends/family but the officer sort of laughed and said that's DS decision. He also told me they couldn't do certain things just because 'we didn't like his choice of GF'

I have seen messages, and he has told me of times, where he has stuck up for me and told her that her behaviour towards me is not ok and needs to stop, but then still continues to see her. So his words to her are saying stop but his actions show her that he's ok with it.

We're going back to saying nothing, her name is never mentioned unless DS brings something up, DH continuing to be the communicator so I don't have to be and not getting involved outside of our own house rules and I guess we'll just wait for the next thing.

She's still maintaining her reasons for not liking me and her acting like this, I have the proof that it's all lies, but for arguments Sale let's say it's true, it's still a huge overreaction on her behalf if that were the case, and even if she hated me it doesn't excuse all the awful things she has done to DS.

She sounds utterly vile ... Im so sorry your Son seems intent on this relationship.

Time will come when he'll look back on this and what it did to you with deep regret.

Bless you OP 🌸

I genuinely think you need to go above your local police to the Region/State. Make a complaint. Get a lawyer to do so. As you said, you are not getting the protection that you have the legal right to expect. The fact that this family is entwined with the local constabulary is interesting. Her counselling is like putting a bandaid on broken neck, though. She will never “get better.” She may learn how to better control her behaviour though. I suspect her behaviour is an environmentally learnt one, and she has picked it up from home. I bet the tree this little apple didn’t fall far from is the mother - whose boundaries with DS were off from the beginning also. (And soggy father.) DS, malleable, spineless, unable to stand up to either of these women is going to play the same role as the dad.

Are you in NSW?

www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/providing_feedback/feedback_compliments_complaints_and_suggestions/feedback/how_to_lodge_a_complaint

Justilou
Your post about op’s ds is going to be a hard read. But unfortunately it’s true. The gf has found a partner, who she can manipulate just like her father.

@workworkworkugh Do you know how much contact the gf has with family? Particularly the dad’s side. If these two stay together, you’re going to be cut out, I imagine. By not standing up to her, you’re giving her the green light for the behaviour to continue.

Have you asked yourself what you’re going to do if they don’t split up? I really hope the you in 5 years time won’t be kicking yourself for protecting this girl before your family harmony and your ds’s future.

you could ask for a youth liaison officer who doesnt know the family

Just a thought and I may have missed it on the thread but have you thought of getting your son some counselling. It may help him think clearer. Slightly older peer mentoring could also really help him.

I feel so bad for you but I do think the constant pressure from both sides can be hard to deal with.
My sister tried to commit suicide when she was 16 because my parents and his parents tried to stop them being together. They were in an abusive relationship and I wished she would have left but I would rather her be alive to be honest.
Ahe still has health problems to this day because of that- and she is still with him 10 years later.
She managed to assert boundaries after a few years and their relationship isn't the best, I wouldn't put up with his behaviour but its not my choice.

men are more likely to commit suicide because they use different methods. My sister ODed. Your son could jump, hang, anything more permanent. If she chose a different method she wouldn't be here. I would take a thousand abusive relationships over death. And we all know that at 16 you really don't think things through, you don't have the life experience to know that things get better and pass.
Please be careful.

I agree with pps about grey rocking her and just letting him learn the hard way.
And I know you are worried about her trapping him with a pregnancy but I would be careful about using that terminology. She cannot trap him- he can use a condom every time and unless she sticks pins in then she is not trapping him. They clearly (puppy) love eachother and if a pregnancy does come about then you have fucked it She will never let you see the baby or your son so be careful. I really would not say anything bad and let her say the bad stuff. be his safe space. be his constant.
he will leave when he is ready and if he is dependent on her then you can't change it with anything.
I know you don't see the good stuff but there is something good he is coming back for.

I agree 100% with getting on with life and letting him do what he wants. He will anyway and you have to accept it. the harder you hold him the further he will crawl away.
take your self away from it. Go away mentally.
Going to the police I think would be a mistake. at this stage.

I don't know what the answer is.
I do know that when I was 16 I fought with my parents for freedom and then when they stopped fighting I came home more. I couldn't stand the 'where were you?' 'your friends are bad' 'have you been doing xyz'
My other sister was the same. She went mad doing drugs, smoking etc and my parents let her. I thought they were mad but then after a couple of months (felt like years to me watching) she had a bad experience and hasn't touched drugs since.

take away her power. he will get bored and sort him himself.
easier said than done. I would be a petty bitch calling takeaways to her house or something in real life. moaning to ds every available second about her.
sorry though. one day it'll all seem so long ago you'll laugh at the anger you're feeling now.

I'm sorry this continues on OP, it's horrendous. I do think you have to take firm action now though. I've got an ongoing situation in my life with my exh's girlfriend who periodically sends me the most disgusting hate mail. I had the police here last Monday after the latest missive. I have really struggled to get help with this. Despite reporting her multiple times, she sends things just outside of the parameters of what would be considered harassment. The police "have a word" but still it continues but it will be months later. I don't engage ever. This time, I have sought legal advice. I can apply for an injunction and that is what I am going to do now. I think you need to step away from this girl being a kid and actually see her for the utterly poisonous person she really is. I realise you're not in the UK but the lack of support from authorities sounds similar to that I have faced myself, with the same reasons why. You do have the option of legal action though and I would take it.

@TheFormidableMrsC - maybe you need to engage a lawyer too. These people just think that they’re beyond the law when the police “just have a word” and then go away again. (I have experience with family members with personality disorders and when they become fixated on you, it’s hell on earth.)

@Justilou1 Yes that's what I'm doing. Enough is enough. She was the OW and blames me for everything that goes wrong in her life. There are already injunctive measures in place to keep her away from my little boy. Anyway, I don't want to distract from OP's thread but my God these people are awful aren't they? 🙁

I believe you when you say her reasons are lies.

I also don't think you should keep offering up proof - as it engages in the argument.

Plus I think she's convinced herself that it is true and her behaviour is convincing others it must be true - why else behave to that extreme?

I would proceed with complaint.

Be very careful when speaking to police and be careful not to mention her relationship with your family or ds. In fact I'd even go as far to avoid mentioning it's ds GF.

Try and catch evidence of her making threats towards you and just out in a complaint about that.

For example her comments about a 40yo drink f her to self harm are only actually a crime against you if she tags you or mentions you - so you screen shot (or someone dies and sends to you) and you make a report about online harassment or bullying or threats etc.

The history is irrelevant if a crime is committed.
It's up to her to try and justify it and provide evidence of your crimes too if she believes she has it. And saying you upset her is not a defence!!

Really pleased your ds seems to be seeing the light.

I think anyone involved with a hostile narcissist or any kind of personality disorder needs to give up on expecting any kind of logical response. They don’t do logic.

The parents know she is a head case - she has most likely run rings around them for years, driving them to distraction and probably divorce ..... then your sweet little boy came along and gave them a night off ... and they looooove that so they have done anything and everything to keep him entertaining and soothing her - as it relieves them of their responsibilities.

Your son is now her carer ..... stuck there with the trauma bond she created.

She looks to have BPD traits and YOU are her “target of blame” - google all this stuff and how to handle this situation.

You need to be careful not to put heat under this as you will inadvertently fan the flames.

You are taking this too personally IMHO - your energy seems intense and your anxiety has triggered you into reactive controlling behaviours - which is understandable but not the right way to go. It’s almost like you have lost sight of your own DS in this and you have now found yourself escalating in a pitched battle with a 14 year old girl with MH problems. And if she has BDP you are dealing with a v high suicide / self harm risk. Know that.

You can play your hand much safer and smarter here.

Adopt a strategy of taking responsibility to inform your DS of identifying abusive behaviours, setting boundaries and enforcing consequences.

Teach him how to make this a healthy RS - not drive YOUR intention to end it - because that is where it backfires because that’s not what he wants or is capable of right now. Aim for a different interim goal.

He wants to be in a RS with her - he wants to be in a balanced happy healthy RS with her - inform him how to incrementally set those boundaries - hand him the tools (from professional source) and then walk away and let HIM do it.

Then kill her with kindness - he wants you to get on with her.

Unlock horns for the long game.

Once YOU are out of this drama triangle and he is left to manage her on his own the whole valency will change and the RS will likely collapse in on itself and fizzle out.

Imagine it like a tug of war - he is in the middle but she is fighting you - drop the rope and she will be discombobulated.

Bide your time.

Don’t react to any of their nonsense. Have a long term strategy. Get some professional help and focus on yourself and your other DC. Trust that this will all be over by the end of the year.

@Sssloou

You are taking this too personally IMHO - your energy seems intense and your anxiety has triggered you into reactive controlling behaviours - which is understandable but not the right way to go. It’s almost like you have lost sight of your own DS in this and you have now found yourself escalating in a pitched battle with a 14 year old girl with MH problems. And if she has BDP you are dealing with a v high suicide / self harm risk. Know that

I understand what your saying in your post, except I’m not sure I agree with this part.
I don’t mention her name in a negative way, I try not to at all but if he’s spent the day with her and they’ve done something fun I’ll ask.
We still have basic house rules that he needs to follow and have tried to help him with boundaries (when he’s receptive to it).
We take him to her house and pick him up when he asks, most of the time unless it is really inconvenient. We’re not stopping them from being together.

But even yesterday he came home from her house crying but wouldn’t say exactly why, we had a dinner last night with extended family for a milestone birthday, he came (by choice, we didn't force him) and had fun but as it was getting later she started blowing up his phone.
We didn’t leave the restaurant until close to 11pm and in the car he was crying, hitting the car and yelling at us to take him to her as he needed to ‘fix things’ as she’d told him she was disappointed in him and he had let her down (and much more I’m sure) for being out with us.
He rushed around there this morning, it’s Mother’s Day here and I have not seen or heard from him and probably won’t, but I won’t even mention it.
He can’t cope with what she’s doing but doesn’t want to seek help.
So we help him through those times and try and stay calm and give advice and still not badmouth her...and then it happens again.

We’ve taken a huge step back, I’m not sure what else we can do?

How about see the bloody lawyer you were taking about?

You are taking this too personally IMHO - your energy seems intense and your anxiety has triggered you into reactive controlling behaviours - which is understandable but not the right way to go. It’s almost like you have lost sight of your own DS in this and you have now found yourself escalating in a pitched battle with a 14 year old girl with MH problems. And if she has BDP you are dealing with a v high suicide / self harm risk. Know that.

Jesus Christ on a broomstick !?

This is NOT OP's fault nor her battle. She has been sought out, singled out, she has been lied about, threatened with serious harm/death. Despite many attempts at resolving things.

What about OP's mental health and well being !?

Your post is an absolute INSULT to everything OP has endured and continues to endure.

Shocking post.

@workworkworkugh

Happy Mothers Day to you 🌺🌸

I do get what @Sssloou is saying. I’ve been on your threads since the beginning and this has been going on for a very long time now.

My take from everything said in the post and summarising the situation, you’re sitting in an impasse. There’s a lot of what isn’t going to happen. You don’t formally pursue the death threats with the police. You cannot take legal action as your ds is unwilling. You cannot persuade your ds to leave her and so forth.

You sound beaten down. But by not trying something else, all you can expect is more of the same. And probably escalation in her behaviour. Past behaviour is a prediction of future behaviour. Making no decisions to take action is a decision in itself. But that decision will only result in you staying in the impasse.

What SssLou is suggesting is different from what you’re doing right now. She’s suggesting you get therapy yourself. It’s not the first time people have suggested you get therapy. It’s important that you listen to this suggestion. You cannot control what others say or do. But you can control your reaction to their behaviour. And if you change your reactions and behaviours, others will be forced into a position of reacting differently.

By now, it is obvious that you cannot change your reactions and behaviours without outside intervention. But you will be able to do it with a the right therapist. A therapist will strengthen you. Help you develop and action plan. And support you to implement it.

It is clear you are very embroiled in the situation and understandably so. But coming on here to report that she treated him like shit, he cried then went back to try to fix things is changing nothing. You continue to worry. She continues to control him and make everyone’s life hell. And you continue to allow the two of them to trash boundaries... including not bothering about Mother’s Day. This shows a total lack of respect of you. It shouldn’t pass you by that she’s very very likely feeling empowered by ‘winning’ against you again on the one day of the year that his mum should be number one!

I get talking on here is cathartic and I’m not trying to dissuade you. But right now it isn’t getting you anywhere right now as the focus seems to be what you can’t do when it needs to be what you can. Therapy will help with this. And help you to form better boundaries. And better planning.

A couple of weeks ago, it was agreed your ds wouldn’t be seeing her so frequently. Unless I’m reading this incorrectly, the time they’re spending together seems to be creeping up again. Therefore it would have been useful to have Mother’s Day plans. A therapist will help you with long term planning and expectations precisely for events and day to day.

Tbh I’d be really disappointed in your shoes that your ds is showing you such little consideration. This is a boundary issue and one, which needs addressing. I’m not sure that pretending to not notice they’ve trashed your boundaries again is the right solution. And that’s why you need outside intervention and more help that you can get on here.