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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2)

1000 replies

workworkworkugh · 19/04/2021 13:22

Just opening a new thread as I believe the other one is getting full.
Will try and link the old one

OP posts:
Notanotheruser111 · 28/04/2021 08:22

Domestic violence occurs in the family, it’s not necessarily intimate partner violence. And the poster above is right. DV services have excellent resources and techniques for family to use to remain supportive but set appropriate boundaries and not feed the drama.

Shelby2010 · 28/04/2021 09:15

I am sorry that you are going through this. I wish there was one clear way to solve the problem. Hopefully amongst all the contradictory advice you can pick out the parts that help you.

I would naturally be more on the ‘take action’ side of grounding DS and banning him from seeing her. But I can completely see how this would not be possible. I remember years ago my DM trying to stop my teenage brother hanging out with a lad she considered a ‘bad influence’ - but of course it was impossible to police.

The ‘stop feeding the drama’ sounds so much more counter-intuitive. However it occurred to me that if, with the latest lies you had said to DS ‘If you really believe the lies GF has made up then it’s your duty to go to the police.’ What would he have done? I doubt very much he would have either gone to the police or admitted you were right. But, at his core he would know he didn’t really believe her. It does make me think that those posters advocating a step back may be right.

DaveDave · 28/04/2021 10:42

I have no clue what the best approach is, but I just wanted to say I think you sound like a lovely, caring Mum.

Peridot1 · 28/04/2021 12:42

@workworkworkugh - I’m sorry you are feeling put upon by some of the responses on the thread. It’s often the nature of the beast on here. People project their own experiences and opinions and whilst it’s often helpful feeling harangued if you don’t seem to immediately act of the often conflicting is definitely not helpful. And anyone who is calling a confused teenage boy ‘toxic’ amongst other things should take a good long look at themselves and ask if they would feel that that was in anyway helpful if they were asking for support.

Only you and your DH know your son. And you know best how to approach him. He’s feeling torn and conflicted. And whilst I’m sure you are devastated that he didn’t immediately break up with her after that awful message he is enmeshed in probably his first intense relationship. An intense relationship with a girl who certainly has many issues.

I think at this stage I would try to just have a calm chat with your son and just say you know he loves this girl but that you really can’t see that she is making him happy really but that you respect his decision to carry on for now but that you are always there for him in any way. And I would reiterate that he needs to meet you halfway. He keeps up his sport. He has dinner at home X nights a week. He sees his friends. That is how a healthy relationship should be and he will help her by modelling a healthy relationship both with her and with his family.

I have a friend who’s DD went a bit off the rails from about 15/16. Very intense relationships. Running away. Sneaking out. She got pregnant but had a termination. They were at their wits end. Every relationship she was in ended up in the guy eventually breaking up with her due to her behaviour and the total smothering. She is now 29 and happily married with a child and another in the way and has a very good job. She does still act the drama queen at times but is so much better. I thought of her as although she appeared to be in a stable happy home (and she was) she was conflicted as her biological father wasn’t around and she was being brought up by a stepfather. Who loves her as his own and had been around since she was 18 months old. But she still seemed to be conflicted in some way and was so obsessive about boyfriends and wanting their complete attention constantly. Most teen boys just backed away which made her feel worse.

I wondered if there was an element of this with your DS’s girlfriend. And these days it is quite possible that she has messages or photos that she is holding over him or she is threatening suicide or self harm if he breaks up with her or doesn’t seem to do what she wants. That’s a lot for a teenage boy to take on. I really wouldn’t be laying down any ultimatum to him as you want him closer not pushed away.

It’s hard as you are totally caught between a rock and a hard place. But I think going forward I would want to try to see into the future a bit and feel that your son will be able to,look back at this and realise that you always had his back. I think that is the most important thing right now.

tensmum1964 · 28/04/2021 13:11

Hi OP. I can't imagine the turmoil you are going through. You have my utmost respect because like most parents you are doing your best with the tools that you have. I saw this letter (below) somewhere and it really resonated with me because teenagers really are still children who are struggling to understand and manage complex situations whilst dealing with on one level being expected to behave like young adults and on another level still feeling very confused and at odds with the world. I thought I would share it here as for me it was quite a powerful and enlightening read.

Dear Parent:
This is the letter that I wish I could write.
This fight we are in right now. I need it. I need this fight. I can’t tell you this because I don’t have the language for it and it wouldn’t make sense anyway. But I need this fight. Badly. I need to hate you right now and I need you to survive it. I need you to survive my hating you and you hating me. I need this fight even though I hate it too. It doesn’t matter what this fight is even about: curfew, homework, laundry, my messy room, going out, staying in, leaving, not leaving, boyfriend, girlfriend, no friends, bad friends. It doesn’t matter. I need to fight you on it and I need you to fight me back.

I desperately need you to hold the other end of the rope. To hang on tightly while I thrash on the other end—while I find the handholds and footholds in this new world I feel like I am in. I used to know who I was, who you were, who we were. But right now I don’t. Right now I am looking for my edges and I can sometimes only find them when I am pulling on you. When I push everything I used to know to its edge. Then I feel like I exist and for a minute I can breathe. I know you long for the sweeter kid that I was. I know this because I long for that kid too, and some of that longing is what is so painful for me right now.

I need this fight and I need to see that no matter how bad or big my feelings are—they won’t destroy you or me. I need you to love me even at my worst, even when it looks like I don’t love you. I need you to love yourself and me for the both of us right now. I know it sucks to be disliked and labeled the bad guy. I feel the same way on the inside, but I need you to tolerate it and get other grownups to help you. Because I can’t right now. If you want to get all of your grown up friends together and have a ‘surviving-your-teenager-support-group-rage-fest’ that’s fine with me. Or talk about me behind my back--I don’t care. Just don’t give up on me. Don’t give up on this fight. I need it.

This is the fight that will teach me that my shadow is not bigger than my light. This is the fight that will teach me that bad feelings don’t mean the end of a relationship. This is the fight that will teach me how to listen to myself, even when it might disappoint others.

And this particular fight will end. Like any storm, it will blow over. And I will forget and you will forget. And then it will come back. And I will need you to hang on to the rope again. I will need this over and over for years.

I know there is nothing inherently satisfying in this job for you. I know I will likely never thank you for it or even acknowledge your side of it. In fact I will probably criticize you for all this hard work. It will seem like nothing you do will be enough. And yet, I am relying entirely on your ability to stay in this fight. No matter how much I argue. No matter how much I sulk. No matter how silent I get.

Please hang on to the other end of the rope. And know that you are doing the most important job that anyone could possibly be doing for me right now.
Love, Your Teenager

JamieFrasersAuntie · 28/04/2021 14:10

You are totally misquoting my advice. I did not ask OP to go and present herself as a victim or to enhance the drama. I did not suggest that she go in saying that she is a experiencing domestic abuse

Yes you did. You made comparisons to your ex and suggested she had " sessions"and listed the ways she's being abused.

I know you are confused OP about the advice - I’d really, really recommend talking to a domestic abusive organisation and ask to meet with them for a few sessions yourself. If you get a good one - they should be able to navigate with you the tangled state you are in, and help untangle it

For example
^You are being accused through GF and your DS? Again and again?
I had this with Ex. Apparently this is common.
Do you feel constantly having to justify yourself, defend yourself, on the ‘backfoot’?
It sounds like you are. I’ve had this^

I think its needlessly dramatic to suggest an adult woman seeks domestic violence counselling because a stupid teen said something about her to a third party.She has already done all the things dv services suggest to support her son and she can do no more. She does not need counselling sessions because a daft teen allegedly accused her of something.

Having said that the op is not being treated well by this girl or her son and there is a really easy way to put a stop to that which doesn't involve domestic violence services or the police.It's as simple as having no more contact with her or her family. It's as easy as saying to her son, look, I don't want to hear any more of this nonsense about what's she's saying, so knock it off.

That is what most adults would do when presented with gossip about what a third party allegedly said. They don't seek domestic violence counselling .So yes, you are encouraging the op to enhance the drama and to act like a victim.

Like the op you are focusing on the gf and completely overlooking the sons awful behaviour and the ops lack of boundaries.At 16 he should know better than to run back and forth stirring up trouble.Most of this is second hand information relayed to her by her son and might not even be true. It's inappropriate, disrespectful and manipulative and it needs dealing with. It is not kind to suggest the op is a domestic violence victim because of these daft conversations. She's an adult and if she doesn't enjoy these conversations with her son she needs to put a stop to them. And it's ok to do that.

Like many others You're suggesting the op is a victim and needs support to deal with the situation she finds herself in. I'm suggesting there is plenty she can do to take control of the situation and avoid being in this situation in the first place. Stopping contact with the gf and her family and refusing to listen to second hand gossip would diffuse the situation immensely and it would be a lot less time consuming than counselling sessions.

Peridot, toxic is an appropriate description of that behaviour. It is not kind as a parent to let him think it is ok to go back and forth relaying private conversations and upsetting people.So yes, I do think it's helpful to point out it's toxic.Because when he does that behaviour in his peer groups or at work we both know there will be extremely negative consequences for him.

Justilou1 · 28/04/2021 15:58

The advice on here is so very polarized I can see why @workworkworkugh is feeling under siege. All I can say is that I know from my experience having once bee. a teenager (millions of years ago) and now being the mother of three teenagers (karma?) - there is no way that ANY love struck teenager is going to have the insight to look further ahead than the immediate. As well as that, most kids express a lack of positivity, almost a bleak sense of foreboding about the future as well, and if @workworkworkugh’s son feels the same way, he would be inspired to grab onto anything that felt good - even if he knew it was destructive and hurt others. I think that @workworkworkugh is being very smart by not forcing complete submission, which would undoubtedly blow up in her face and cause a violent, destructive response from both kids, but rather she is attempting to set reasonable limitations and boundaries. This is not a world where there are only two solutions. In this situation, NOBODY is happy. I assume @workworkworkugh has other kids, the DH she has mentioned, an extended family, some friends she’d love to see and a job as well as this young man to worry about. The girl has been given too much oxygen. It would be great if she could divert her attention elsewhere. Hopefully OP’s son will wise-up soon enough.

CMA56 · 28/04/2021 21:12

Your husband’s police friend gave you a name to follow up to help you and you haven’t mentioned if you have contacted the name any reason why?

Yutes · 28/04/2021 22:19

The OP isn’t answerable to anyone that’s on the thread.

workworkworkugh · 28/04/2021 22:30

@CMA56 I did mention it, I said she wasn't available and I hadn't heard from her as yet.
She was on leave so I still have not heard back.

OP posts:
MyOtherProfile · 29/04/2021 05:30

What @Yutes said.

contrary13 · 29/04/2021 08:36

Having read @Justilou1's very wise words and reflected upon them overnight, I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with what they have said. I thought that I could only give a perspective from the point of view of someone who parents a young woman with a personality disorder - but realised that I can probably also give another one.

I was a little older than your son, admittedly, being 18 at the time, but I got involved in a destructive, toxic relationship (with the NPD child's biological father, as it happens). He dripped poison into my ears in order to isolate me from my friends and family - and they all loathed him. But I thought I was in love and, consequently, would hear no wrong about him. My mother, in particular, was very out-spoken about the boy and her dislike of him. At that point, I was behaving like your son is, @workworkworkugh - spending every waking moment with him. I even dropped out of college for a while on his say-so. I ate with his family, went shopping with his mother and sister, helped his brother with his homework, had my own front door key. I went home, literally only to sleep.

Why? Because I knew my mother couldn't stand him, or any of his family (and she was right not to, by the way, but hindsight's a wonderful thing...). That was my main objective with the relationship from the very beginning of it - I knew my mother disliked him to a point where she'd suck air through her teeth if she so much as caught a whiff of his name on the breeze. He was my break-away relationship, my stab at independence. We've all had relationships like that, I think. Not all of them toxic, but still ones that define us as young adults in our own right, not just "Joe and Jane Bloggs' kid"...

I'm not saying that your son's doing what I did - but it could be that this is his way of starting to distance himself from the family a little. Break away enough to be recognised as his own person. The age is certainly about right - my own 16 year old son did similar last year with a girl who was wholly unsuitable for him (in my opinion). I bit my tongue and waited. If you do say something - like my mother did - then you do risk pushing him further into her willing embrace. I was fortunate in that I fell pregnant with my daughter, subconsciously realised it... and ran. But it took 14 months, and he'd cut me off from everyone who loved me. All because my mother kept telling me of her dislike for him and his family. I wanted to prove her wrong, I think. I genuinely thought he and I were going to be together forever - and that his insidious lies were the truth. I did see sense eventually, though, and I'm sure that your son will, too. It's simply that this girl isn't like "normal" bad partners - the death threat alone is evidence of that - and if she has a personality disorder, then chances are she'll be loathe to let your son out of her clutches.

The mother's emotive texts to your son, too, are more than a little creepy. It's almost as though she has a crush on your son and is encouraging his relationship with her daughter so that she can be vicarious about it. I could be wrong, but... a grown woman shouldn't be texting a teenage boy that way unless she gave birth to him! Envy

DisappearingGirl · 29/04/2021 09:33

I think you're doing a great job OP.

Being a teen is such an intense time and I think lots of teens dive fully into something that might not be entirely sensible from an adult point of view - whether that's an intense/unsuitable relationship, drink or drugs, a particular subculture or ideology. I think those first love feelings are so intense, you can know with your rationale brain that the relationship isn't healthy but the feelings are as addictive as a drug, and I'm guessing that's where your son is now.

I have no direct experience but I really agree with this advice:
I think at this stage I would try to just have a calm chat with your son and just say you know he loves this girl but that you really can’t see that she is making him happy really but that you respect his decision to carry on for now but that you are always there for him in any way. And I would reiterate that he needs to meet you halfway. He keeps up his sport. He has dinner at home X nights a week. He sees his friends. That is how a healthy relationship should be and he will help her by modelling a healthy relationship both with her and with his family.

Fieldsofstars · 29/04/2021 16:34

I bet you wish you could move far enough away for her to not be an issue anymore.

This situation is just so unfair for your family op.

Luckymummytoone · 01/05/2021 09:34

Hope things improve soon OP, can’t imagine how hard it is for you 💐

CMA56 · 01/05/2021 09:36

Sorry workworkworkugh I missed that last sentence on that post. Wishing you all the best and hope things all fall into place for you and your family soon Flowers

MyOtherProfile · 01/05/2021 14:34

Hope you're ok @workworkworkugh

user1481840227 · 02/05/2021 03:09

@DdraigGoch

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they're all so convinced (DS, gf and parents) that they are soulmates and perfect for each other to the point of doing everything to keep them together.

I hate it when parents get over-invested in their child's relationships. It's just like the really pushy ones in other aspects of life who force their unwilling kids through grueling extra tuition, extra-curricular activities and so on. They think that if they can live through their children that they are making up for where they fell short in life (marriage breakdown, uninspiring career, no talents, that sort of thing).

I doubt that that's what it is. It's lazy parenting, they don't know how to cope with her so unfortunately they are using this poor boy and don't care about his safety or wellbeing at all.

I ended up in a relationship from age 16 with a friend who really wanted to be with me and would threaten suicide etc. His parents knew exactly the way he was going on and put so much pressure on me to look after him. I stayed in that relationship for over 10 years!!

DocMarteens · 03/05/2021 19:12

OMG OP I can't believe some of the arsey responses you are getting here. Ignore people who think you are answerable to them and focus on the people who are supportive of you. If it suits you to take on another perspective do so but otherwise I hope you know that a fair few of us with sons feel for you. This was a scenario that has not even entered my mind but could of course happen when they are in that 16-18 age group.

I'm reminded by what my father told me: your children will bring you great joy but also pain at times.

JeffreyJefferson · 04/05/2021 10:27

hope you’re ok OP Flowers strong mama !!

workworkworkugh · 04/05/2021 13:49

We've had a quiet week which was really nice, but things have escalated tonight, worse than before.

I would like to say what has happened as it shows what we are dealing with but we are considering seeking the advice of a lawyer so it might be best not to go into any detail.
Will wait to see what tomorrow brings and what help the parents decided to get for their daughter before going further on here.

We are ok though, DS is handling this new development well and I think he is (finally) starting to see that she needs help.

OP posts:
Peridot1 · 04/05/2021 14:20

Good luck with it. Really hope she gets the help she so obviously needs and your DS is ok. Complete nightmare situation for you as you are completely stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Orgasmagorical · 04/05/2021 14:36

I hope you and your family are all safe and unharmed, Work, and that this new development can be the catalyst that brings an end to the ordeal.

SteveArnottsCodeine · 04/05/2021 14:37

Been reading since your first thread @workworkworkugh and I’m sorry you’re still going through this.

VodkaSlimline · 04/05/2021 14:52

Hang in there @workworkworkugh - sometimes things do need to get worse before they get better. You have lots of support here!

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