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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2)

1000 replies

workworkworkugh · 19/04/2021 13:22

Just opening a new thread as I believe the other one is getting full.
Will try and link the old one

OP posts:
NeilBuchananisBanksy · 27/04/2021 13:26

"In this situation (having been previous friends with someone who sounds similar to the GF) I've learnt to respond "well if you think she's telling the truth then absolutely report me. But as far as discussions about this go between us - it's over".

The danger (IMO!) here lays with the fact you are having to prove yourself to your ds on his GF say so.

And I think the fact he asks and tells you is because deep down in his heart he knows it's all bollocks. So refusing to engage with him about it puts the onus in him to prove they're lies and not you. It puts the onus on him to step up."

I came on to say this. Stay calm, silent and suggest he goes to the police then and shrug your shoulders.

He will then have to decide himself. At the minute he's locked in a battle of she said this, she said that between you and the girlfriend.

If he did go to the police, it would also be more evidence of her harassment.

Satis · 27/04/2021 13:34

Of course, if you had previously filed for a restraining order, any complaints she later made about you to the police wouldn't be taken very seriously. Do you still think she needs your protection?

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 27/04/2021 14:02

She is continuing to abuse you and you and your son are allowing that to happen.

You don't have to put up with being treated this way. Say "no" and set boundaries for your own wellbeing. Perhaps he'll do the same for his.

Justilou1 · 27/04/2021 14:29

You could also consider pressing charges for slander or false utterance. They’re serious complaints. See a solicitor, maybe?

AnotherKrampus · 27/04/2021 14:38

OP, you got a lot of support and brilliant advice. But this is not a place where people pander to you and massage your fragile feelings either. I can understand why some people are getting exasperated and somewhat irritated by your updates. On the one hand, you have repeatedly accused the parents of the girl of a lack of parenting and appeasing her etc. Yet, in many ways you are doing exactly the same. You are so scared of incurring your rather spoiled and somewhat brattish son’s wrath, you are giving in to him in a very similar way. He has been massively disrespectful, disloyal and overall quite a shit to you and your family, yet, you are primarily blaming his GF. FFS! Your child has zero right to question your professional integrity and repeat/cast such aspersions. I cannot believe that you are even entertaining this kind of attitude and behaviour. You cannot control or have any input with what is happening about the GF but you can actually address your son’s tantrums and shitty attitude and impose tough sanctions. You are not there to be his friend, be a parent and let him stomp his foot and shout ‘I hate you!’ It’s about time you stopped letting him monopolise the family dynamics with his ridiculous drama and focus on the rest of your family.

Mummyoflittledragon · 27/04/2021 14:45

If she is still gunning for you despite everything that has now happened, if I were in your situation, I would be questioning if the threat on your life actually was so flippant. She’s using DARVO deny, attack and reverse victim / offender.

What do you think would have happened if your ds had been up for murdering you? Would she have stopped him? I think this are the questions I’d be asking myself and acting on them. I get it’s really hard and you feel torn. The last thing you need right now is to be feeling pushed by posters.

WhatMattersMost · 27/04/2021 15:11

@CousinKrispy

Poor OP, what a nightmare.

Just agreeing with a few other people:

  1. Counselling for yourself--not only might it help you deal with this horrific situation, it's a great thing to do as a role model for your son. Do it and talk openly about the fact that you're doing it, and how it's helping you. It might help plant the seed in his brain that he might benefit from individual counselling too.
  1. Obviously I'm not a medical professional, but I agree it does sound a lot like Borderline Personality Disorder. I have a book recommendation, "Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist : how to end the drama and get on with life" by Margalis Fjelstad. The focus is on the person in a relationship with the BPD individual, and how they can draw boundaries (whether they leave the relationship or not) and become more aware of how their own behaviour can get them caught up in the drama cycle of their family member or partner.

Again, if you read it hopefully you'll get a few good tips, and your son might also be willing to leaf through it. (You could also start him off with "Loving someone with borderline personality disorder" by Shari Manning--I found it less useful because by the time I read it, I really didn't want to stay in my relationship, but your son might be willing to leaf through something that takes the "here's how to have as healthy a relationship as possible with them" approach as a first step.

  1. Definitely document everything, including with police, GP, school, etc. as much as you can--the GF clearly has no compunction about lying so make sure your version of events is clearly documented.

Take care of yourself.

I'm not a psychiatrist, but I am a psychotherapist, and I would agree that she has all the signs of Borderline and she will consequently have little control over her impulses.

Another book to look into:

"I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" by Jerold Kreisman

RosaLuxemburgwasright · 27/04/2021 16:55

@workworkworkugh, I understand that you can feel a little put upon by the posts here. I think the problem is that when we as humans hear of a problem, especially one as hard and as horrible for you as this one, we want to give advice. The advice might be helpful and it might not because who knows a situation unless they're in it. I do think that the majority of people here want to just be a support whether they're offering advice that you find unhelpful or not.

I'm not sure I have advice just a few anecdotes from my own life which I hope will make you feel less alone in this because, honestly, so many people go through something similar.

The first. I went out with an absolutely awful boy/man when I was a teenager. He was a speed addict, a ne'er do well and basically a grade A twat. I didn't see any of that. To me he was wonderful, edgy, the man of my dreams (yes, I was deluded). My mum hated him, obviously, but did nothing. I think she might have done more if I still lived at home but I had moved out a few months previously. I remember that I sort of wanted to bate her with him but she wasn't having any of it. I honestly think that if she had outwardly taken against him to me, we would have been together longer. As it was it didn't take long for me to break up with him. He then came and tried to break down my front door but a neighbour came out, yelled at him and told him she'd call the police. Later he phoned me and told me that if I didn't take him back he'd kill himself. I told him that if he didn't kill himself it wasn't on me. Afterwards mum told me how much she hated him and I was grateful for her ability to just let it happen. N.b. I don't suggest that this is what is right for you. It might be and it might not. Oh, and he didn't kill himself.

The second was far more difficult. My brother was a drug addict and was violent with me a couple of times. The first was a new years eve party in my local pub that my mum pushed me to take him too. He was allowed to stay until closing hours and then had to go home. He didn't want to go home and started punching me because I was "being unfair". The next day my mum blamed me and asked what I'd said/done to make it happen. A couple of years later I was looking after her home while she was on holiday. He came round and I can't remember what happened but he started punching me until I was on the floor and then was kicking me in the stomach. Luckily a neighbour heard the commotion, had seen him arrive and had a key to the flat. She came in and he ran off. I asked her not to tell my mum, she did and then my mum had a go at me for not telling her. She chose him every time, not matter what he did and it hurt a lot. She put up with awful behaviour until in the end, for her own sanity, she had to tell him no more and cut him off. It hurt her a lot and they remained estranged for about a year. I don't know if it would have lasted longer but unfortunately, she died. Again, this is so different to what you're going through but I do know that sometimes the only thing you can do is let go because as much as it hurts and I know it really hurt my mum, it's a hurt that you're in control of rather than the constant drama being put on you that you have no control over.

Whatever you do or don't do, whatever ends up working for you, and I hope so much that something does soon, I am so sorry that you are having to go through this and sending a stranger's love and support to you. x

cameocat · 27/04/2021 17:07

I can see your dilemma OP as there is a lot of strong advice from posters telling you what to do and it is conflicting. As others have said this just proves how difficult your situation is and there is no right answer. Hopefully all the opinions and strategies give you ideas for new ways to handle the situation.

I don't think anyone is criticising you per se but trying to help. We all really want the same result; for your son to escape her and for her and her parents to realise and seek the help that she needs.

JamieFrasersAuntie · 27/04/2021 17:21

Op you are so embroiled in this drama you cannot see your own part in it. You are now playing the victim after this confrontation about your phone and although you might find that suggestion upsetting, I am genuinely trying to help you. You need to seriously think about why you engaged him at all instead of telling him to go away with his pathetic crap.

Regardless of how much your toxic son wants to run back and forth repeating stuff it was ultimately your choice to have that conversation with him.You are behaving like a teen yourself by endlessly discussing this nonsense and who said what to who.You are enabling him and his dysfunctional need for drama.

For gods sake shut it down. You are investing too much energy into this daft situation. Do you realise how exciting this is for them? How he will run round to her house to gleefully discuss how he challenged you and explain what you said word for word? Why are you handing over all this power to a couple of daft teenagers? Your reactions are nothing more than entertainment for this toxic pair. Your son is happily victimising you and goading you for entertainment and you're not addressing it. It's utterly toxic on his part yet you are both insistent on seeing him as a victim.

Your focus is totally on crazy girlfriend and her family, how she told another lie or said this or that. You seem to be suggesting that all these problems are caused by her and her family. They are not. Your son did not magically turn into an arrogant disrespectful drama seeker the minute she turned up.

Your son is highly toxic himself and sounds like a bully. There is clear contempt from your son to you that is ignored. Your husband seems to be doing very little yet urging you to escalate the situation with the police, and then there is your own behaviour that is consistently creating more drama. The both of you should have come down on him like a ton of bricks when he started his nasty tittle tattling.

Take the focus off girlfriend and address your sons toxic horrible behaviour. Put your energy into examining why your teenage son struts around thinking it's ok to challenge you and be disloyal, creating drama and treating you like a peer instead of a parent. His entitlement is actually astonishing.Have a think about why there has been no limits put on him for causing all this trouble and his total lack of respect for you. These dysfunctional dynamics were present in your family way before girlfriend came along and they will be there when she has gone too.

As I said previously I have had a similar experience and my belief throughout it all was that crazy bf was the root of all problems. My daughter was a helpless victim in my eyes and I was the poor martyr desperately trying to control the situation. A long term estrangement and a grandchild lost to adoption has made me see things very differently. And I cannot tell you how much I regret that.

Ellie56 · 27/04/2021 17:37

She might be a 15 year old kid, but she's a dangerous, warped 15 year old kid. The so-called "Twilight killers" were only 14 and look what happened there.

You need to protect yourself. Get that restraining order.

Startingagainperson · 27/04/2021 17:46

Some of this resonates with me from my Ex - I sought advice from domestic abuse professionals as I thought I was in an emotionally abusive situation.
They said loads of helpful stuff.

I know you are confused OP about the advice - I’d really, really recommend talking to a domestic abusive organisation and ask to meet with them for a few sessions yourself. If you get a good one - they should be able to navigate with you the tangled state you are in, and help untangle it.

For example:
You are being accused through GF and your DS? Again and again?
I had this with Ex. Apparently this is common.
Do you feel constantly having to justify yourself, defend yourself, on the ‘backfoot’?
It sounds like you are. I’ve had this. Really good advice I got was to ‘observe from outside’ and not defend. I can’t say this enough. Do. Not. Defend yourself.

There are many examples of this but it really does take an experienced person to help you find a way of extricating yourself. Also then it might be possible to get your DS to get advice himself. But I’d start with you first.

Really, really recommend!

JamieFrasersAuntie · 27/04/2021 18:23

Some of this advice is frankly ridiculous and needlessly dramatic.

The op is NOT suffering domestic violence and she is not in a relationship with this teenage girl. These highly stretched services are NOT going to offer sessions to discuss daft things a stupid teenager said to a third party. Neither will the police, gp, school or anyone else.

I also think advising the op to invest time and energy into reading books about someone else's alleged mental health problems is not helpful. The op needs to focus on her own mental health. The gf mental health problems are not the ops concern.

Startingagainperson · 27/04/2021 18:26

@JamieFrasersAuntieThe OP is involved heavily in an abusive relationship situation which involves her 16 year old child and his GF who is targeting her to the extent of death threats.

Domestic abusive organisations are there to help anyone who is in an abusive relationship including relatives. They will inform the OP if they are busy and refer her if that is the case to other resources that will be helpful. However there is everything to gain from accessing the most appropriate professional help.

JamieFrasersAuntie · 27/04/2021 18:39

Domestic violence occurs between intimate partners or ex partners. The op is neither. It's no secret that there is limited support for actual victims of violence or sexual abuse and I would be astonished if they are going to start arranging sessions because a daft teenager said something stupid and nasty.

The op does not need professional support as a victim. She needs to shut it down, it's that simple.

BlueVelvetStars · 27/04/2021 18:42

Let him go live with her and her parents.. she'll get pregnant.. they'll be teenage parents ...

and when he's trapped with no way out.

remind him.. this was his choice.

Im sorry OP but your mental health cannot take much more.. you need to let this go now. He's not giving her up.

it's the Alex Skeel case all over again.

L41K4 · 27/04/2021 19:08

@BlueVelvetStars

Let him go live with her and her parents.. she'll get pregnant.. they'll be teenage parents ...

and when he's trapped with no way out.

remind him.. this was his choice.

Im sorry OP but your mental health cannot take much more.. you need to let this go now. He's not giving her up.

it's the Alex Skeel case all over again.

This is terrible advice. Please never say to someone in an abusive relationship ‘it was your choice’.
JamieFrasersAuntie · 27/04/2021 19:34

Op I would really advise you to calmly consider advice given to you. As in real life some of the responses on here are dramatic, full of emotive language and the reality is that many people read or post here simply for entertainment. They won't have to deal with the consequences of the things that they're advising. You will.

You need a plan going forward, one based on rational decisions and not panic stricken triggers. And I say triggers deliberately because I think there is something about this girls dislike for you and your sons disloyalty that is triggering something.

The reality here is that your son is acting up and his girlfriend is a nasty person. Nothing terrible has actually happened yet, although there is a lot of talk about what could happen. You need to get things into perspective.I appreciate the suggestion of killing you was upsetting, but teens say these stupid things and it is usually bravado.

You could, as advised here see her parents, the doctor, police, schools. You could have various sessions with domestic violence services and you could pay for a solicitor. You could sue her for slander if you're a millionaire but I'm not sure how much damages you would get from a 16 year old. You could spend a small fortune on books about her mental health and spend hours reading them.

As you consider these options you need to ask yourself several things.

1/ How likely is it that it will achieve the outcome you want which is the end of their relationship

2/ What is it going to cost you both financially and emotionally.

I think it will be better for you to focus on the things you can control, like detatching emotionally from the situation and protecting your mental health.

JamieFrasersAuntie · 27/04/2021 19:44

BlueVelvetStars
Let him go live with her and her parents.. she'll get pregnant.. they'll be teenage parents ... 

and when he's trapped with no way out. 

remind him.. this was his choice. 

Im sorry OP but your mental health cannot take much more.. you need to let this go now. He's not giving her up. 

it's the Alex Skeel case all over again.

This is terrible advice. Please never say to someone in an abusive relationship ‘it was your choice’

If she becomes pregnant the consequences will be on him and a result of his stupid choices.

Young boys who impregnate teenage girls are NOT victims.

Can we please stop dramatically claiming that this situation is anything like a domestic violence situation. The son is having a fantastic time pitting his girlfriend against his mum , going back and forth and causing all sorts of trouble.

cooldarkroom · 27/04/2021 20:16

JamieFrasersAuntie speaks alot of sense.
There us only so much pain you can allow to be inflicted on yourself.
Detach. Grey Rock.
Don't facilitate, Dont play their game

BlueVelvetStars · 27/04/2021 21:11

Ive followed OP from her first Thread ..

Im not advising her.. THIS will happen. When this lass turns 16 he will move in with her, and OP is helpless to stop it.

Im more concerned about the continuous allegations She makes against OP, her son does not care to even enough challenge this, in fact he believes it all.

OP will become mentally unwell. She needs to look after her own mental health.

I agree go Grey Rock.

Tistheseason17 · 27/04/2021 21:42

OP, I just wanted to say I'm here reading your posts without judgement.
I'm not where you are and only you know your DS and the situation the most.
It's easy for outsiders to say, "do X or Y". But, the reality is we are not in the moment like you.

I'll keep reading and offering support. You ate clearly a fab, concerned mum, doing what you can. Flowers

BlueVelvetStars · 27/04/2021 21:49

I totally agree... OP you are a great Mother, you have tried your best. 🌸

Loopylobes · 27/04/2021 21:53

Can we please stop dramatically claiming that this situation is anything like a domestic violence situation.

This is a classic domestic abuse situation where the abuser is using coercive control, with the help of her family, to isolate her victim from his support networks and narrow his horizons to those of her choosing.

Victims of coercive control are not making choices that should be thrown back in their faces later on.

The OP's best option is to keep communication channels open with her son, make sure he knows that, whatever happens, he will always be welcomed home at any time and recognise that the hurtful behaviour is is driven by her and his inability to apply any logic or perspective at the moment.

With luck, either he will eventually recognise her abusive behaviour for what it is or she and her family will move on to another victim.

I have been in the OP's position and I would never have been able to forgive myself had I protected myself from the pain by disconnecting and leaving my DD to her fate. Much less could I have told her it was her own choice to be in that situation.

I stayed involved and quietly and gently fought for my daughter by maintianing my relationship with her and finding subtle ways to prompt her to question her abuser's behaviour. It worked and it was worth every little bit of the distress and heartache the situation caused.

Her abuser now has a different victim who is very much less likely to be able to escape.

Startingagainperson · 27/04/2021 21:53

@JamieFrasersAuntie

Domestic violence occurs between intimate partners or ex partners. The op is neither. It's no secret that there is limited support for actual victims of violence or sexual abuse and I would be astonished if they are going to start arranging sessions because a daft teenager said something stupid and nasty.

The op does not need professional support as a victim. She needs to shut it down, it's that simple.

You are totally misquoting my advice. I did not ask OP to go and present herself as a victim or to enhance the drama. I did not suggest that she go in saying that she is a experiencing domestic abuse! These organisations are the opposite of a dramatic escalation they are there to provide the best perspective she can reach. I asked her to consider professional advice from people with the most appropriate training to the situation that she finds herself in, which is one where there is an abusive dynamic to her son’s relationship.

Domestic abuse organisations are very good at this and of course a family member of someone in an abusive situation, whether that be young or old, can ask their advice and they have excellent resources on things like the grey rock technique and can also advise her on what could be available to her son.

I agree with much of the ‘no drama’ approach you advocate Jamie and yet at the same time, the OP has come on here seriously worried as her young son is having sex with a young girl who has cut him off from his life, and is targeting his mother. Minimising this is a mistake. Stoking the fire with drama is also a mistake. I am advocating that there is one place, other than the police, the school, the OPs friends or mumsnet which does have some good training in this area. These organisation’s are used to prioritising those most in need but have phone lines in which they can advise and other support, even email support, and they can be the ones to say whether they think they are an appropriate organisation for the OP to talk to or whether they have the time. They are very into prevention where possible so would probably be only too happy to advise.

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