My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2)

[workworkworkugh]

Just opening a new thread as I believe the other one is getting full.
Will try and link the old one

hope you are okay op

@workworkworkugh just wanted to say that I think that you are doing an amazing job in the circumstances. It must drive you mad and be frightening tooo. But you seem so calm and measured. I honestly think your approach has been the right one. I hope it works out.

My parents were lovely and would certainly never have laid a finger on me but I would have been absolutely torn to shreds in terms of other punishments for this sort of behaviour at 16.

So if you'd had a boyfriend whose family showered you with sympathy, offered you a key to their house and lifts to school, hobbies, etc, there's a danger you would have accepted them. That could have been you alienated from your loving parents, isolated from a support network and stuck in an abusive relationship for life.

Are you sure the OP is in the wrong for not risking this? If you are, you need to research coercive control.

I've been in a similar position and I choose to label the behaviour as driven by the abuser. This contributed to my child escaping the relationship which is something for which I will be grateful to the end of my days.

Hope things improve soon 🤞

Can't imagine what I'd do in this situation

I think you're doing the right thing OP. Anyone who think they could lock their 16 year old up to avoid this is deluded.

@workworkworkugh hope your all ok and they aren't causing you more stress

I've read both threads.

I've had a similar experience with a young adult and it ended up with a pregnancy and a young baby being taken into care. I've never seen that baby again. I'm going to tell you what I wish someone had told me because I did pretty much everything that you've done. And none of it had a positive effect.

You need to Stop. Stop discussing it, stop asking him questions and advising him. stop all of it. Block gf and her crazy family and have no further contact under any circumstances. Nothing you have done so far has had any effect, in fact it has escalated the situation and given this dysfunctional group the drama and attention they so desperately seek. You have brought other people into it who are now also feeding the drama.

This is not a Romeo and Juliet situation. It's a dysfunctional dynamic where attention and drama is the goal. Your son is part of this dysfunction whether you see that or not.And so are you, as was I. Someone earlier asked if you had looked at the karpman drama triangle. If you haven't you should and you should also read up about control dramas because that's exactly what this is. It's unhealthy for everyone involved.

Several other people have also told you that their relative or friend became so dysfunctional that they can no longer have a relationship with them. This is my experience and I firmly believe that a developing personality who seeks out this type of drama and is rewarded with attention runs the risk of that behaviour becoming an ingrained trait.

Several people have told you that they had to step back and as a result of doing so the relationship came to an end very quickly. I had to do the same and that relationship ended very quickly and I believe it's because drama and attention keeps these things going, not love.

My advice is shut it down asap. Tell him you don't want a relationship with these people, you don't want to hear about it. Tell him she's not welcome at your home.Tell him it's no longer up for discussion EVER and if he needs to talk about it he needs to find someone else. Not your problem. He's not entitled to endless support while he makes ridiculous choices. He doesn't get to bring drama into your home while he runs back and forth triangulating you both. Because he IS doing that.

Expect the drama to escalate in a big way if you do this. Read the drama triangle to understand what's happening and how you are moving around the triangle from the position of persecuter to victim to rescuer. I would expect a declaration of pregnancy real or not. You must stay out of it and not engage at all.

He might well move out. She might get pregnant. Something else terrible might happen and if it does he will have to deal with the consequences of his stupid choices like we've all had to. Trust that he will be able to manage the consequences of whatever might happen.

You do not have the power to change his mind or influence him in any way. Accept that for now these are his choices and he alone is responsible for them. Trying to divert disaster and manage his choices and his drama is enabling on your part, and it's really really unkind to him in the long run.

@KarmaNoMore

OP, this thread is resonating with me a lot. It has left me thinking for days... My exh was a very selfish man, but he was never violent or down right nasty, we divorced in good terms and continued to be friends for a number of years.

So we split and found new partners, and rubbed along ok until he met
his current partner... Jesus, I do really think she is far from abusive and controlling, she has substantial psychopathic traits, traits that I can see in this girl. It is the constant manipulation, outright lies and the way she has managed to make a normal person become a broken shell of himself who is capable to hurt the people he loved to protect a relationship that is not under threat.

Nobody he knew before he met her is longer in contact with him, we all took the step back and let them be to avoid upsetting her and to avoid ex going in Romeo-Juliet mode. But nothing was enough, I immediately got out of the scene, but she insisted we shouldn’t communicate about DS at all as this was “proof” I wanted to break their relationship, she also hated DS to a point she tried consistently to hurt him. We saw exH go first from a normal confident man to be a very aggressive man defending a relationship from a threat that didn’t exist to the point I had to seek protection from police. What was really strange was that I was no longer communicating with him at all but she was still pushing him to hurt me. DS told me that when he was with his dad, she was constantly shouting at him “but why is this happening? Until she made him cry, yet she wouldn’t stop until he said that whatever was happening, was happening because of me.

We have no contact with ex at all, but from time to time people I know bump with him. I do my best to avoid talking about him as I fear him so much these conversations upset me, but there is a pattern on what people say, he looks like a broken man, the confident person he was is no more and although we have not communicated with him for years on end he is still claiming bitterly that we all are trying to destroy his relationship.

The big difference in this case is that exH is much older than your son, and I’m pretty sure she will not try to kill him as he is the hen that lays the golden eggs, nothing could have been done to “protect” him from her. Your kid is 16, there are things that you can do and I can assure you whatever you do is going to damage the relationship you have with your kid, so forget about how your relationship is going to be impacted and focus on protecting your family from this psychopath.

She is not a lost girl that needs to find her way, counselling has no effect in these people, they are what they are, if anything she will use that counselling to build a case against you.

Your main focus should be not saving the relationship you have with your son, that will be gone whatever you do or stop doing, your focus should be to keep yourself, your son and the whole of the family safe by accepting all the police protection available and stop handing him to her in a plate, she will destroy him no matter how much you stay out of the way to keep her happy.

Oh God, this is almost a carbon copy of my ex h and his partner. So many parallels. I agree with everything you say here unfortunately.

@workworkworkugh - has your husband spoken to his friend yet?

@JamieFrasersAuntie

I've read both threads.

I've had a similar experience with a young adult and it ended up with a pregnancy and a young baby being taken into care. I've never seen that baby again. I'm going to tell you what I wish someone had told me because I did pretty much everything that you've done. And none of it had a positive effect.

You need to Stop. Stop discussing it, stop asking him questions and advising him. stop all of it. Block gf and her crazy family and have no further contact under any circumstances. Nothing you have done so far has had any effect, in fact it has escalated the situation and given this dysfunctional group the drama and attention they so desperately seek. You have brought other people into it who are now also feeding the drama.

This is not a Romeo and Juliet situation. It's a dysfunctional dynamic where attention and drama is the goal. Your son is part of this dysfunction whether you see that or not.And so are you, as was I. Someone earlier asked if you had looked at the karpman drama triangle. If you haven't you should and you should also read up about control dramas because that's exactly what this is. It's unhealthy for everyone involved.

Several other people have also told you that their relative or friend became so dysfunctional that they can no longer have a relationship with them. This is my experience and I firmly believe that a developing personality who seeks out this type of drama and is rewarded with attention runs the risk of that behaviour becoming an ingrained trait.

Several people have told you that they had to step back and as a result of doing so the relationship came to an end very quickly. I had to do the same and that relationship ended very quickly and I believe it's because drama and attention keeps these things going, not love.

My advice is shut it down asap. Tell him you don't want a relationship with these people, you don't want to hear about it. Tell him she's not welcome at your home.Tell him it's no longer up for discussion EVER and if he needs to talk about it he needs to find someone else. Not your problem. He's not entitled to endless support while he makes ridiculous choices. He doesn't get to bring drama into your home while he runs back and forth triangulating you both. Because he IS doing that.

Expect the drama to escalate in a big way if you do this. Read the drama triangle to understand what's happening and how you are moving around the triangle from the position of persecuter to victim to rescuer. I would expect a declaration of pregnancy real or not. You must stay out of it and not engage at all.

He might well move out. She might get pregnant. Something else terrible might happen and if it does he will have to deal with the consequences of his stupid choices like we've all had to. Trust that he will be able to manage the consequences of whatever might happen.

You do not have the power to change his mind or influence him in any way. Accept that for now these are his choices and he alone is responsible for them. Trying to divert disaster and manage his choices and his drama is enabling on your part, and it's really really unkind to him in the long run.

Well said 👏

@JamieFrasersAuntie excellent answer. This was my worry too, that the OP was too involved, but I couldn’t figure out why it seemed like that to me and of course you want to be involved if it’s your son. But this is exactly it, OP is fanning the flames of the drama with every interaction.

If you can catch him in a receptive moment, I’d maybe explain all that too him before shutting it down, but then hold absolutely firm. Good luck!

No major update of late.
To be honest I'm nervous about updating now as I feel whatever way we decide to handle this will be wrong in so many peoples eyes (on here), I want to come here for support when needed but am also hesitant.

A perfect example is a few posts below, at the beginning (and recently) people have been telling me, demanding that I step in and intervene...come down harder on DS, I should be doing more etc. The post just recently is telling me I shouldn't have stepped in at all and I have a hand in creating the drama.
I honestly don't know what to do.

For a quick update tho:
The father asked if DS/GF could meet up on Sunday in a public place for an hour, we agreed and the dad hung around in the general area. That was fine.
But then later we had a msg saying it perked GF right up so could DS go for dinner? The answer of course was no, but it just feels like it's constant requests coming from both parents. I feel harassed by it sometimes.

We're trying to set some more boundaries with DS, he's going to see her, we are aware of that even if we don't like it, but he must attend training and stop turning down work shifts etc, this helps to slightly limit their time together.

There has been more lies told from her to him and about me. She's trying so hard to turn him against me and get in his ear with all these little things (that I have proof are lies) I don't want to get into the details of these particular ones but she was encouraging DS to dob me into the police to get me into trouble for having inappropriate things in my phone...which I don't have, never have and don't know where she's even got the idea from.

The police liaison hasn't been in touch with me yet, but another officer I spoke to basically said (not in these words) that there's nothing they can/would do as I'm not in fear for my life and they wouldn't even go and speak to her.
I can get support for me but there's nothing really for DS unless he wants it.
It's going to take DS doing something to himself that he can't take back for people to sit up and take notice, but if it were the parents of a teen girl showing up with the same scenario I'm sure people would be rushing to help!

@workworkworkugh you’re trying you’re best. It’s an impossible situation. She’s so transparent isn’t she. Because you went to the police she is trying to get him to go to the police with bogus claims about you? What does your son say about this? Has he told you this?

@Allwokedup when he came accusing me of these things, as she had told him I'd said or messaged these things to her parents, I calmly explained that is not true and I have the messages if he wanted to see. I did also say it was a flat out lie.
He said he didn't care and he doesn't want to know.
He's in serious denial.

@workworkworkugh gosh, it’s just one thing after another isn’t it. I think you need to greyrock any convos about her. She loves the drama. I’m so sorry Op. this is a nightmare for you. How is your husband doing?

The police liaison hasn't been in touch with me yet, but another officer I spoke to basically said (not in these words) that there's nothing they can/would do as I'm not in fear for my life and they wouldn't even go and speak to her.
I can get support for me but there's nothing really for DS unless he wants it.
It's going to take DS doing something to himself that he can't take back for people to sit up and take notice, but if it were the parents of a teen girl showing up with the same scenario I'm sure people would be rushing to help!

@workworkworkugh tell the police you’re in fear for yours and your DS’s life. This is a death threat. Also get in touch with male domestic abuse charities so someone can talk some sense into your DS.

@workworkworkugh you have to remember that the majority of posters telling you what to do have never been in your situation. It’s easy to think Joe we’d handle a situation but none of us ever know until we’re in it.

What you have said about if you had a daughter instead is unfortunately very true! Men are struggling with their mental health and their suicide rates are ridiculous, yet a child who is being manipulated and abused is being left to fend for himself. He doesn’t realise it but he is lucky to have your support.

A perfect example is a few posts below, at the beginning (and recently) people have been telling me, demanding that I step in and intervene...come down harder on DS, I should be doing more etc. The post just recently is telling me I shouldn't have stepped in at all and I have a hand in creating the drama.
I honestly don't know what to do

I think OP you should take that as a reflection on just how difficult an issue this is to handle.

People are having varied responses because I'm not sure there is a perfect way to deal with this.

What worked in one situation may not work in another simply because of the individuals involved.

You of course know your son unlike any of us here and that will of course impact what advice you might feel is helpful and that which isn't.

Rather than see conflicting views as a criticism of what you're choosing, I'd flip that and think of them as an opportunity to consider if an alternative approach might be worth trying in your situation.

Frankly, given where you are at currently with the Police and the lack of concern from her parents I'm probably coming round to @JamieFrasersAuntie's position.

The idea of that must be quite frightening I think for any parent, but the GF's obsession with you does point strongly at a heavy investment on her part in "drama"'that in trying to support your son, you are inadvertently feeding - as he's in turn feeding everything you do back to her.

[quote workworkworkugh]@Allwokedup when he came accusing me of these things, as she had told him I'd said or messaged these things to her parents, I calmly explained that is not true and I have the messages if he wanted to see. I did also say it was a flat out lie.
He said he didn't care and he doesn't want to know.
He's in serious denial.[/quote]
Sorry you're feeling you can't win with the advice.

There are plenty of differing views but like with anything - you have to act the act you feel best is for you.

In this situation (having been previous friends with someone who sounds similar to the GF) I've learnt to respond "well if you think she's telling the truth then absolutely report me. But as far as discussions about this go between us - it's over".

The danger (IMO!) here lays with the fact you are having to prove yourself to your ds on his GF say so.

And I think the fact he asks and tells you is because deep down in his heart he knows it's all bollocks. So refusing to engage with him about it puts the onus in him to prove they're lies and not you. It puts the onus on him to step up.

She hasn't had a chance to be alone with your phone, I hope,? Or hasn't coerced your son into downloading something?
Might be worth having a check.

Lots of differing advice, but I think that 99.9% of posters are behind you, horrified by her behaviour and are hoping you can resolve this whilst protecting yourself and all your family.

I would be tempted to ask my son what he would do in your position - seeing a beloved child being abused whilst enduring death threats and being falsely accused of illegal activities.

I really hope this girl moves on and you and your son are OK. Reading this gives makes my head hurt, I can only imagine how you feel.

I'm with argue. Also check your laptop or whatever. There are keylogging devices and apps you can install so you have access to people's info and then download whatever they like. I can't believe the GF is sorted enough to do so unless your DS knows various passwords but who knows?

No, they both don't have access to my phone.
I know the story behind the accusations, I just didn't want to go into detail, but it's all in her head, there is absolutely nothing to it at all.

My son was in the same situation years ago. It was a nightmare. The turning point was when he realised her hatred of me had become greater than any affection she had for him.