To vote with my head instead of my heart?

[ImNotDaveGorman]

I need advice from random people as I don’t like to talk politics in real life.

I’m in scotland and we have an election next month. The 2 main parties in my area are SNP and conservative. TBH I really dislike them both, but absolutely detest SNP. For reasons I’m not going to get in to I really don’t want scotland to be independent (also, that is not what I want this tread to be about!). I found it so difficult during the last referendum-people were horrific to each other and I want that vote to stand.

So, every time there has been an election I have voted for the party I do like, but every time the results come out the percentages are tiny for any party that is not SNP or conservative! So, basically, I feel like my vote is being wasted.

So....
YABU-vote with your heart for the party you want

YANBU-vote conservative, the lesser of 2 evils (in my eyes) and hopefully we won’t have to go through a second referendum

Again-this is not a thread to change my mind on my reasons for being against Scottish independence, so I won’t be having that argument.

@Blanca87

Greens? To be fair I don’t understand the Tory mindset of lesser of two evils? Cronyism, corruption and the Brexit shit show, I’m amazed anyone could bring themselves to vote for them.

Are you serious? The Scottish Greens are in bed with the SNP.

I'm in England but I've heard some awful stories over the years about bully boy tactics within the SNP from Scottish residents. If you don't want independence and wish to "send a message" to SNP, then I think choosing to tactically vote conservative might your best option.

If your vote could count there is a moral obligation to make it count IMO. Talking to anti trump Americans ... who didn’t vote does my head in. Voting is so easy (for most) this is your single biggest chance to contribute to a democracy and if you know your vote for a teeny tiny party won’t count don’t do it.

I would find it less difficult to vote for Scottish Tories than English Tories. They’re not the same on many issues.

I would never ever vote for a nationalist party. I despise the concept and see little difference in the nationalism of American first and what drives the SNP. Nationalists always promise the earth and the moon. They seldom deliver except at another’s expense.

I understand the basis of the left and the right. But not a party defined by the accident of birth.

My personal advice hinges on what you've got on offer. Is it genuinely just SNP or Tories? Apologies If I missed a clarification here.

if not but you don't know much about others, please consider a protest vote for the nearest ideological party (or the one you least disagree with). Trust me, it will help the non usual parties see they're falling

If there's literally no option other than the two and you don't want either, please take the effort to spoil the ballot. Bonus points if you manage in a way they argue if you meant their party or not

Lol are the Tories not nationalists? British nationalism is still a form of nationalism.

People saying "my voice isn't heard" yeah same anywhere in the world where you vote for a candidate that doesn't win? The SNP get the most votes, they're not rigging the election.

Really sad to see all these people saying they'll vote Tory...do you really think Westminster style policies are preferable to those of the SNP at holyrood? Even if you don't like the SNP, do you really think Tory policies will be better for Scotland? A party which has show complete contempt for Scotland since thatchers time (at the very least)

@pourqouimoi

Lol are the Tories not nationalists? British nationalism is still a form of nationalism.

Yes the Tories are nationalists, look at bloody Brexit!

Honestly the anti-Tory people on here are nuts! The OP has made it clear the biggest issue as far as she's concerned is avoiding a 2nd indy ref. In her area, realistically the politician who will win is SNP or Conservative. That's the choice, so given what her biggest issue is, the Conservatives are the better fit for the biggest issue to her. If the rest of the policies don't fit her views, thats annoying, but they fit with her biggest issue.

This is how most people vote.

(See also shock from Labour Party at not winning when lots of people said their NHS /education policy was the best, not factoring in that those might not be the key issues for all voters. )

I do understand the predicament the OP is in but I think Scotland is going to get dreadful treatment from the Tories going forwards, they want to reassess the Barnett formula and roll back devolution.

The Tories won't be happy to leave Scotland with as much freedom as they have now.

vote conservative, the lesser of 2 evils

With all that has happened with the Tory government in the last two years I can't understand this phrase. Hard to imagine them being the lesser of two evils.

I feel quite sad that people are so willing to be shafted by the Tories.

They play mercilessly on your fears, lie to you, then fuck you over.

The Tories in England care as much about Scotland as they care about Northern Ireland. They are happy to ignore rioting in Northern Ireland. I rest my case.

Scotland got an independent parliament to stop all the demands for independence - think it was Blair's government.
But that has failed spectacularly.
English posters think they have it bad - we pay for a whole swathe of whingeing Scottish MSPs on top of our British MPs, even with their power life is pretty shit in Scotland and they are still demanding independence - that might seem a good idea in Glasgow but if you are 10 miles from the border not so great, nearest big town is in England.

Imv the population in Glasgow is pandered to at the expense of everyone else, that's where their votes are.
However with Alex Salmond likely to get a seat in the next parliament wee sleekit Nicola will have to up her game a bit, am looking forward to it, she looks stressed already

I don't think I could mentally or emotionally cope with another referendum again, and would in fact 'fuck off to England' as advised by a colleague for not wanting to wear a lovely yellow 'yes' badge despite we're not meant to wear anything political at work. And also like pp Scottish born and bred! HR lead and Union rep are biggest NS fans so doubt would have had any support there. The referendum was where the phrase 're education' came into its own for me, days and weeks of badgering and fairly aggressive 'chat' and 'jokes' like "don't ask Michelle to help a patient shes a fucking Tory" because for this feverant lot if you don't worship at the throne of the SNP you must be one! No concept that there are other parties. Another thread has mentioned the SDP which l plan to look at.

If your main concern is to keep one party out, or to limit its majority, surely you vote tactically for whichever party is likely to help achieve that.

I haven’t actually loved any party for God knows how many elections now - it’s a case of which I dislike marginally less than the other(s). But I’d never not vote, or spoil the ballot paper - such a pointless waste.

Though having said that, I’ve just remembered that I was once disgusted enough with the lot of them to vote for the Monster Raving Loony candidate, but that was a very long time ago.

How close is it in your constituency? If it’s under 1000 votes then hold your nose, close your eyes, run a bath after and vote Tory. If not, vote for whoever you heart says. And then on the list vote vote with your heart as that will matter. Anyone saying that voting SNP then voting no in an Indy ref is fine needs to maybe pay a bit more attention to how Scottish politics is going. The point being to deny an Indy majority as an outcome of the elections

It’s pretty clear that the same type of person who voted for Brexit due to some bullshit on the side of a bus are the types of people who’d vote Tory in Scotland when the flier comes through saying ‘vote us to stop a referendum’. No word on their policies, no sense that they have anything worth offering other than ‘vote us to stop a referendum’.
That’s likely because they will take the first opportunity to throw Scotland right under their bus once enough fools vote for them.

Good god people, we’re not middle England here. If you don’t want independence then vote no again, but don’t lower yourself to give the Tories some sort of mandate in Scotland, a country they have shown nothing but utter contempt for.

Vote conservatives. I’m the same and that is where I will be voting. If more people do it then snp could go.

I have not voted before, and have spoilt my ballot. Neither is a waste IMO. It is a legitimate choice to not engage.

The time I didn't vote I was asked later why (as you can see from the marked register). I was then able to explain to the relevant person.

I think people can do what they like with their vote.

The issue though is the Tories are like owning a pet tiger. Feed them all the treats you want, they'll happily rip you to shreds at some point anyway.

I don’t understand Scottish issues or their voting system as geographically I am as far from Scotland as you can get but I am not to far far from a green controlled council (Brighton) and don’t see how any woman could recommend or vote for them. They have reduced women to body parts.

I find it baffling people that say all SNP do is push independence. It’s a lazy argument which has been pushed out by the Tories so often that people seem to have started believing and repeating it.

Agree Anas Sarwar has a bit more about him than Richard Leonard. This election may be too soon for him but hopefully they give him time to rebuild and gain a bit of momentum for Labour by the next general election.

I am now really tempted to vote Conservative after all the disdain and scorn shown on this thread to people who don't want another referendum and who don't bow down to the idea that the SNP are oh, so much better, more moral and ethical. You'd think no-one in Scotland ever voted Conservative but the figures prove they do, and in reasonable numbers. The SNP have succeeded in dividing this country in a way the tories haven't managed - well done them.

SNP flagship policies look good, but have this country is on it's knees - good alternatives to university are practically non existant, universities are suffering through lack of funding (how many local students are missing out because universities are taking on overseas students because they need the higher fees? ). Free prescriptions are a joke - the amount of medication wasted is nothing short of criminal. They've now had years to make good policy, to make Scotland a great place to do business, to raise taxes to spend on public services and all they've done is tinker round the edges. If the SNP want Scotland to be a Scandi style utopia they could have used their tax raising powers in full so why didn't they? Because they knew it would be unpopular with the population and risk them losing an election or another referendum?

It appears to me that the same thing is happening in Scotland as happened in England during the Brexit referendum and the last general election - ordinary people who are perhaps struggling and who are below the rarefied heights where the GRA and HCB even register on their radar, are just sick of being told what to do by those on the perceived moral high ground - same way the Labour Party in England lost people's votes because they were pissing around with pronouns while Rome burned.

Anyone who wants to do their best by Scotland (whether or not they support independence) would not consider voting Tory.

Boris considers being Scottish 'a political disability' when it comes to being a politician, and famously said 'you would generate jobs and growth in Strathclyde far more effectively if you invest in Hackney or in Croydon or other parts of London'.

And while the votes do not directly support the Tories in Westminster, it gives them a bigger voice in Scotland. That's not something that is going to benefit us in any way.

Why would op vote SNP if she doesn’t want another referendum? , the only policy the SNP promote is to have a referendum, all the rubbish about 4 day weeks, doubling pensions , dear god it’s unbelievable! We are still in a pandemic the economy is going to be on its knees and the SNP are trotting out complete stupidity and lies and people believe it, it beggars belief. Why didn’t they do much over the years they have been in power, they’ve had plenty of time?
As someone else said my ancestors will be doing a roll in their graves, but I’ll have to vote tactically and hope they understand.
And while I’m on a roll stop using the saltire as a SNP flag, my uncle on a visit from the USA ( pre COVID) said there’s a SNP flag on seeing the saltire! Disgraceful, divisive and dangerous.

I'm not in Scotland fluffy, but I can only say what I see when I watch NS speak and the overwhelming impression I get is another referendum is her main focus and that anyone voting SNP would be voting knowing this.
I watched families being interviewed who had voted differently and it tore them apart. Friendships ruined, marriages ended, heartbreaking. I'm not saying this is a reason not to ever have another but I can understand why people wouldn't want to go through it again, given we are already struggling to get back to some normality with Covid.