To vote with my head instead of my heart?

[ImNotDaveGorman]

I need advice from random people as I don’t like to talk politics in real life.

I’m in scotland and we have an election next month. The 2 main parties in my area are SNP and conservative. TBH I really dislike them both, but absolutely detest SNP. For reasons I’m not going to get in to I really don’t want scotland to be independent (also, that is not what I want this tread to be about!). I found it so difficult during the last referendum-people were horrific to each other and I want that vote to stand.

So, every time there has been an election I have voted for the party I do like, but every time the results come out the percentages are tiny for any party that is not SNP or conservative! So, basically, I feel like my vote is being wasted.

So....
YABU-vote with your heart for the party you want

YANBU-vote conservative, the lesser of 2 evils (in my eyes) and hopefully we won’t have to go through a second referendum

Again-this is not a thread to change my mind on my reasons for being against Scottish independence, so I won’t be having that argument.

Yeah I mean in the OPs scenario, it’s a no brainier. The SNP are toxic, arrogant, hell bent in divisiveness and leading the country to independence which it cannot manage (illustrated by SNPs tenure in government) nor can afford. If you don’t want independence, you don’t really have a good alternative other than the Scottish tories. It 100% will not result in a conservative majority...but it will diminish the SNP majority and be a strong statement on Indy. Once that threat is passed, go with your heart, but if you do not want another referendum, you don’t have an alternative but a Tory vote. Anything else is a waste and effectively a vote to retain the SNP majority.

I don't tend to vote Tory, but the idea they are evil is just ridiculous. You get some real nutters on both extremes of the spectrum, but the bile toward anyone who votes Tory from the far left is awful and actually counterproductive.

If calling anyone who votes Tory terrible names worked, they wouldn't be miles ahead in UK polling at over 40%.

I think Indy would be far more destructive than Brexit and would much rather vote Tory than SNP.

As a Welsh person I've found this thread quite fascinating. I didn't realise so many Scottish people didn't like the SNP as the media portrayal indicates the opposite. If I was in your position and felt that strongly I'd vote tactically for the Tories. I wish I had the opportunity to vote tactically myself but living in the Welsh Valleys it's always going to be Labour.

smithyca We voted not to leave UK at last referendum, but SNP don’t listen to the Scottish electorate and will push to have another, as usual the silent majority are drowned out by those who think we should all vote SNP. They haven’t done a good job here and have had ample time to make a difference.

It is absolutely true that Scotland voted to remain but the landscape of the U.K. has changed considerably since then with Brexit, and people still keep voting SNP so they feel this gives them the mandate for a new referendum. (Not happy currently with SNP but did support independence last time and probably would again).

I'm not a massive fan of the SNP but I will not vote Tory ever again (for various reasons which I won't go into as this isn't what this thread is about). I can totally get where you're coming from!

Going Green this time, voting with my heart . Haven't really thought about voting tactically this time, just voting for the party I feel aligns most with things that are important to me (ie the environment).

And how do you feel about the Greens position on GRA ?

Greens are just SNP-lite. They are totally in their pocket, vote with them, support them to get legislation through.

A pointless waste of time of a party. And yes they do seem to really struggle with the definition of woman.

@smithyca

As a Welsh person I've found this thread quite fascinating. I didn't realise so many Scottish people didn't like the SNP as the media portrayal indicates the opposite. If I was in your position and felt that strongly I'd vote tactically for the Tories. I wish I had the opportunity to vote tactically myself but living in the Welsh Valleys it's always going to be Labour.

The Silent Majority are so-called for a reason. You've seen upthread how people don't dare admit that they vote for anyone bar the SNP, lest they get abuse.

@RaspberryCoulis

Greens are just SNP-lite. They are totally in their pocket, vote with them, support them to get legislation through.

A pointless waste of time of a party. And yes they do seem to really struggle with the definition of woman.

Yep and there are similar issues with the Green Party of England and Wales. So busy fretting about "literal violence" (why does "literally" always mean "metaphorically" these days?) and "micro-aggressions" that they've forgotten the planet.

I choose not to own a car, I grow my own food, campaign for better public transport, and I have eliminated most single-use plastic and other nasties from my life. I should be the target voter of the Green Party. Hell (or Brighton) will freeze over before that shower get my vote.

@Mistressinthetulips

It is absolutely true that Scotland voted to remain but the landscape of the U.K. has changed considerably since then with Brexit, and people still keep voting SNP so they feel this gives them the mandate for a new referendum. (Not happy currently with SNP but did support independence last time and probably would again).

This is the thing. Last time around one of the major arguments against independence was that the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU was to remain part of the UK. Well, that worked out well.

The SNP are not perfect, but the SNP will not be in charge of Scotland for ever.

I've shifted to a firm position of supporting independence entirely because of the obvious contempt the Westminster Tories hold for the country and the fact that they are going to continue in government for the foresable despite all rational logic (and partly because labour can't mount a credible opposition to save themselves).

I was intending to vote Green, but am concerned now about what I am reading about their stance on women etc. Could someone elaborate for me?

Posts like these make me so depressed about our voting system - a democracy where everyone is voting tactically just doesn't feel that democratic to me. We need PR. I have been in this position many times too and I'm just fed up of it. I doubt any of the larger parties will ever allow PR - the current system suits them.

@mermaidsariel

I was intending to vote Green, but am concerned now about what I am reading about their stance on women etc. Could someone elaborate for me?

Head over to the feminism section. There are quite a few threads in there covering their most recent conference and the appointment of their Women's chair.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-green-party-s-growing-contempt-for-women-s-rights

Getting fed up with the dictatorship that is Scottish politics. It does feel like it doesn’t matter who you vote for SNP will win anyway.

Possibly because a lot of people vote for them eh! So funny reading all this about a 1 party state, dictatorship etc...no-one is forcing anyone to vote for them .
Nope they aren't perfect but they are a hell of a lot better than the Tories and the only hope of delivering independence and ironically probably wouldn't exist after that. I predict lots more of these type of anti SNP threads in the next few weeks.

It’s the ‘delivering independence’ bit that concerns me. They have made so many errors of judgement, so many failures that I don’t trust them one little bit to tell the truth about what an independent Scotland will look like.

It won't be any worse than bring stuck with Tories and Westminster.

We don't know that, though, do we. It could be an unmitigated disaster. It's very unlikely it'll be champagne and roses for years, if ever. That's the rest of my life, at least the rest of the working life of the next generation and possibly the one after that too. You say that the SNP are better than the Tories, but tbh, where they fail they blame Westminster anyway, whether the failure can truly be laid at Westminster's door - they've been doing it for years. The SNP have a few very canny politicians - Nicola Sturgeon especially talks a good talk, I'll give her that.

Previously I may have considered voting Green but never after the way they have propped up the SNP and because of their attitude re women.I think they will struggle in this election and hell mend them

@MyDarlingWhatIfYouFly

Posts like these make me so depressed about our voting system - a democracy where everyone is voting tactically just doesn't feel that democratic to me. We need PR. I have been in this position many times too and I'm just fed up of it. I doubt any of the larger parties will ever allow PR - the current system suits them.

Scottish parliamentary elections already have a very substantial degree of PR. It's an entirely separate and different voting system from Westminster elections.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-54825291

"People have two votes - one for a constituency MSP, and another for a regional ballot.

There are 73 Constituency MSPs, each elected on a first-past-the-post system similar to the UK general election - the winner is the candidate who receives the most votes in each constituency.

In the regional ballot, people vote for a party. The parties are then allocated a number of MSPs depending on how many votes they receive - once the number of constituencies already won in that region is taken into account - to make the overall result more proportional. "

     That's why tactical voting is a very live option here.

@TeenMinusTests

At least the Tories tend to know what a woman is.

As long as we an get a dig in against trans people, who cares about the poor, poc disabled and all women, trans or not?

Christ.

@user1487194234

Previously I may have considered voting Green but never after the way they have propped up the SNP and because of their attitude re women.I think they will struggle in this election and hell mend them

Oh, and fuck the planet as well. Transphobia really is a sickness.

Charming

@LagunaBubbles

Getting fed up with the dictatorship that is Scottish politics. It does feel like it doesn’t matter who you vote for SNP will win anyway.

Possibly because a lot of people vote for them eh! So funny reading all this about a 1 party state, dictatorship etc...no-one is forcing anyone to vote for them .
Nope they aren't perfect but they are a hell of a lot better than the Tories and the only hope of delivering independence and ironically probably wouldn't exist after that. I predict lots more of these type of anti SNP threads in the next few weeks.

FYI, for the past 5 years the SNP has been a minority govt in the Scottish parliament.

The SNP had 59 seats out of 129. Neither a dictatorship nor a one- party state.

At the last Holyrood election,over half the votes cast were for other parties, not the SNP.

I'm not defending the SNP at all, but if you think the tories give more of a fuck about minority/female rights then you are kidding yourselves. Just look at who their leader is, and the opinions of the the likes of JRM and Gove.