To vote with my head instead of my heart?

[ImNotDaveGorman]

I need advice from random people as I don’t like to talk politics in real life.

I’m in scotland and we have an election next month. The 2 main parties in my area are SNP and conservative. TBH I really dislike them both, but absolutely detest SNP. For reasons I’m not going to get in to I really don’t want scotland to be independent (also, that is not what I want this tread to be about!). I found it so difficult during the last referendum-people were horrific to each other and I want that vote to stand.

So, every time there has been an election I have voted for the party I do like, but every time the results come out the percentages are tiny for any party that is not SNP or conservative! So, basically, I feel like my vote is being wasted.

So....
YABU-vote with your heart for the party you want

YANBU-vote conservative, the lesser of 2 evils (in my eyes) and hopefully we won’t have to go through a second referendum

Again-this is not a thread to change my mind on my reasons for being against Scottish independence, so I won’t be having that argument.

This is pure insanity that people who have never voted tory see it as an option. If you are that desperate to keep out the SNP there are other ways than Tory. I despair. I really do. Look at what you are voting for and ask yourself if you can really do that. Whatever you think of the SNP they have spent a considerable amount of time and money shielding the Scots from the shower of shite that the Tories have brought in down south. You want the bedroom tax here? You want students to pay fees at Uni? You want to go back to paying for prescriptions (which actually ends up costing more than free prescriptions do). If you think what has been done to Education here is bad take a long hard look at Education in England where the cheapest warm body is shoved in front of a class, qualified or not, in the shape of 'cover supervisors, where morale is lower than it has ever been here, the mess of their multiple exam boards, the even bigger mess they made of exams last year and this.

Loving all the posters who don't have the first clue about Scottish politics advocating a Green vote.

Or, just vote SNP and then No at another referendum.

Or spoiling your vote.

Ms Sturgeon and her cronies are going to take every single SNP vote as an endorsement for yet another divisive referendum. If you spoil your ballot your voice is not being heard if you don't want that.

The way the Scottish parliament voting system works means that there shouldn't be an outright majority, it was designed for collaborative working. If enough people vote tactically then fingers crossed the SNP fall short and another party (not the wet Greens) tempers their ideas a little.

I'm in Clydebank and Milngavie constituency - last time it was 16k SNP, 7.7k Labour, 6k Conservative. So Labour are second. There is no way on God's green earth that the people of Clydebank are going to vote Conservative so Labour it is for my constituency vote.

@UrAWizHarry

I genuinely can't understand how anyone can look at the tories and think "more please".

Independence from those fuckers can't come soon enough.

And on the flip side, I don't understand how anyone can look at Sturgeon, Swinney and Yousaf and think "more please".

Tactical voting is a thing.

She can take an SNP as a mandate for a referendum all she likes, that doesn't mean that all SNP voters will vote for Independence. As shown last time that is most definitely not the case. A referendum doesn't mean it will happen unless all these stupid 'I will vote for the Tories despite hating them' decide to vote for independence 'to show Westminster what for' or some other equally stupid and shite reason.

Tactical voting is a thing for sure but if that tactic involved voting for a party you wholeheartedly thing are a bunch of fuckwits, then I'd say that tactic is not one worth voting for. A vote for the Tories is endorsing what they do and what they stand for. Regardless how 'tactical' you think you are being.

@AlmostInsane it's not just about avoiding independence.

It's about avoiding ANOTHER referendum, after the last one was so toxic, and so divisive, whatever the outcome.

The problem here is the way our voting system works. Realistically most areas do only have two options and sometimes you have to vote tactically or it feels as if your vote is wasted on a candidate that can’t win.

@RaspberryCoulis What exactly is wrong with voting SNP then 'No' to independence - that's what happened last time and the world did not end.

I think the toxicity of the last referendum varies widely depending where you are in Scotland. Where I am it opened up a lot of debate for sure but none of the toxic shite that went on in Glasgow.

[quote AlmostInsane]@RaspberryCoulis What exactly is wrong with voting SNP then 'No' to independence - that's what happened last time and the world did not end.[/quote]
Because lots of people are still healing from the first independence referendum and all the toxicity which went with it. If you vote SNP you are voting for another referendum, all the campaigning, all the nastiness.

Your one vote isn’t going to make much difference. With FPP you can only make a difference by mobilising lots of votes.
Which is harder than ever since we are all so divided, as you described in yor op.
If we had some kind of proportional representation, surely this wiuld lead to a more collaborative, consensus building approach?
Or does a consensus building approach go nowhere?

Personally, if I was dead set against independence, I’d vote tactically. I’d probably need a peg on my nose to vote Tory, but there you go.

We don't have FPP in Scotland though, we have AMS, hence the 2 votes, one for constituency and one list vote. AMS (additional member system) is a form of proportional representation.

This thread has really opened my eyes to how the Tories got in down south and how Brexit got voted through. How on earth they can be the lesser of two evils is beyond me. Have you seen Douglass Ross?

I’m not an SNP fan by any means but they’re the best of a very bad bunch at the moment (apart from the greens but that’s a wasted vote in my area). God I wish Labour would get their act together.

I'm not a Labour voter, @fluffygreenmonsterhoody but Anas Sarwar is such an improvement on Richard Leonard who was so wet and so lacking in personality. I think he's going to take a while to get into his stride though.

People vote on the issue which is most important to them. For a lot of people, the most important issue at the moment is avoiding another referendum as we come through Covid recovery.

@fluffygreenmonsterhoody I couldn't agree more. That people are genuinely planning to vote Tory as a protest or a tactic with comments such as 'I'll peg my nose but vote for the arseholes anyway' shows exactly why we have the government we do in Westminster and why we ended up with the farce that is Brexit.

For me, if it was a choice between SNP and tories, I would have to vote SNP. I don’t agree with many of the SNP policies especially the hate crime bill (Don’t actually have a problem with independence in principle just not sure now is the right time). But I just couldn’t vote Tory. Their attitudes (and therefore policies) on people with disabilities, those living in poverty, refugees and social justice in general just disgust me.

If you are dead set against independence I would vote labour. Remember the list vote makes a difference for the smaller parties who don’t get the main seats. If too many people protest vote for the Tories no one really gets what they want (except maybe Boris).

Tactical voting makes sense otherwise the party that will get in will push for what you don't want. They seem to do little else than bang on about independence as if nothing else matters

@GiveMeTulipsfromAmsterdam and instead you could end up with a party you really don't want and don't agree with, not just on one policy but all of them, purely to avoid a referendum that you don't have to vote for...

As a lifelong Labour voter, I’m voting Tory for the first time. The SNP are contemptuous of women.

@Summerdayshaze and the Tories are a shining light of womens rights? I don't think so.

I don’t want to sound like I am pushing for the SNP vote because I’m really not (I’m an undecided voter). But they definitely have more policies than independence and don’t just bang on about that. It does seem to be what the BBC and other news outlets seem to mostly report on Potentially some candidates are more hardline on independence than others so it might depend on who is standing in your area.

Scots Tories seeem a lot better than London Tories.

I, too, have just voted for the Conservatives, a party I have loathed all my life. I even said a little apology to my dearly departed mother who would be horrified. It will be worth it, though, to protect the union.

If the Tories are the SNP's main opposition in your constituency, you must vote Tory if you don't want to suffer another hellish referendum run-up and the disastrous possibility of independence.

@Ohnomoreno

Scots Tories seeem a lot better than London Tories.

You might be right but I’m not convinced. I think if the London tories are wolves, then the Scottish Tories might be wolves in sheep’s clothing-just ‘seem’ better from a distance but the same thing at heart.