To vote with my head instead of my heart?

[ImNotDaveGorman]

I need advice from random people as I don’t like to talk politics in real life.

I’m in scotland and we have an election next month. The 2 main parties in my area are SNP and conservative. TBH I really dislike them both, but absolutely detest SNP. For reasons I’m not going to get in to I really don’t want scotland to be independent (also, that is not what I want this tread to be about!). I found it so difficult during the last referendum-people were horrific to each other and I want that vote to stand.

So, every time there has been an election I have voted for the party I do like, but every time the results come out the percentages are tiny for any party that is not SNP or conservative! So, basically, I feel like my vote is being wasted.

So....
YABU-vote with your heart for the party you want

YANBU-vote conservative, the lesser of 2 evils (in my eyes) and hopefully we won’t have to go through a second referendum

Again-this is not a thread to change my mind on my reasons for being against Scottish independence, so I won’t be having that argument.

Devolution means that most of the control in Scotland is currently with the SNP, not Westminster

Sadly not the most important one, the money.

Tory governments come and go

Despite their current record a recent poll showed they are miles ahead of labour in England. Dont think they will be going anywhere soon. Despite spending millions of tax papers money on a press room that won't get used now to.

When you live an overnight ferry journey away from mainland Scotland and are closer to Norway than Edinburgh, a second home by way of a small flat in Aberdeen is something fairly essential, not a luxury

Nonsense. Of course it's a luxury! The vast majority of Shetlanders do not have a flat in Aberdeen. And often the people that do, have bought it as an investment when their children have gone to university. So they save on accommodation costs while taking advantage of rising house prices.

@florafoxtrot no I said that Aberdeen isn't a SNP stronghold not that they had no voters. Which is true for Scottish Parliament compared to the likes of Glasgow for instance.

I have lived the multiple large scale redundancies with my family and friends with very little done to improve the options or job prospects. SG offered CV "job fairs" which didn't have any jobs really and a "retrain scheme" which was so difficult to prove that the course was beneficial many gave up trying to obtain the miniscule funding.

The city is long over looked by SG in options to improve or diversify. Even the regeneration scheme a lot was spent on the oil and gas technology hub.......

I have a similar thread in Scotsnet and lots of people came in saying they might be willing to give Labour a chance again. Anas seems to poll higher than the previous load of pointless leaders.
I’m starting to think it might be worth voting Labour after all. They were 3rd in my constituency last time but cons are weaker without Ruth and Labour stringer with Anas.

@PrelovedWithValue

When you live an overnight ferry journey away from mainland Scotland and are closer to Norway than Edinburgh, a second home by way of a small flat in Aberdeen is something fairly essential, not a luxury

Nonsense. Of course it's a luxury! The vast majority of Shetlanders do not have a flat in Aberdeen. And often the people that do, have bought it as an investment when their children have gone to university. So they save on accommodation costs while taking advantage of rising house prices.

Christ. A "luxury" to have a 50k one bedroom flat in a declining city centre so you have to pay for a hotel every time you want to shop on the mainland.

It never ceases to amaze me just how anti aspirational the Snp are. Except for the Snp politicuans themselves - they all seem to have two large family homes.

Isn't one of the Snp's frequently changing muddled policies that it wants Scotland to be part of some Scandinavian bloc - yet Norwegians, swedes and Danes are all permitted to have their second homes and aren't taxed to death for doing so or treated as the exploitative scum of the earth for doing so.

Not so in Scotland. Stay put for over a year, not allowed off the island, and then, maybe, if you're a good, we might let you stay in an over priced state sanctioned Hotel that was miraculously given panning permission dye to cronyism.

[quote Scottishskifun]@florafoxtrot no I said that Aberdeen isn't a SNP stronghold not that they had no voters. Which is true for Scottish Parliament compared to the likes of Glasgow for instance.

I have lived the multiple large scale redundancies with my family and friends with very little done to improve the options or job prospects. SG offered CV "job fairs" which didn't have any jobs really and a "retrain scheme" which was so difficult to prove that the course was beneficial many gave up trying to obtain the miniscule funding.

The city is long over looked by SG in options to improve or diversify. Even the regeneration scheme a lot was spent on the oil and gas technology hub.......[/quote]
You said "they don't vote for them" - there was no reference to a stronghold.

And I didn't mention anything to do with the demise of the city centre or the decline in the oil price - which has affected more than just you so I'm not sure why you are replying to me on that point?

Christ. A "luxury" to have a 50k one bedroom flat in a declining city centre so you have to pay for a hotel every time you want to shop on the mainland

Yes.

Second homes are not essential. Travelling to Aberdeen is not essential (or desirable to be honest. It used to be a place that many Shetlanders, me included, spent quite a bit of time. Not any more. And that's not just because of the recent downturn in oil. More and more, people are choosing Glasgow or Edinburgh or further afield instead).

If you think a second home is an essential, you have truly lost touch with the majority of people in a country where food bank use is rising quickly.

And it's not just Aberdeen. I do a lot of competitive sport, cand sport in Scotland has been shut down for much longer than in England. The SG will only communicate with certain sport governing bodies and there is always difficulty in getting a reply. The replies are vague as to what case they exiect the governing bodies to make, nevertheless they go to time and trouble to present the infirnation requited, only to be ignored.

It's sickening that the SG is so arrogant and removed from the actual people of Scotland. It just just isn't interested in Scots who do competitve sport. Yet again we have the farcical situation of being able to meet strangers in a pub in Scotland but not do competitve, socially dustqnced sport, as was the case all of last sumner. for a while last summer, people in my sport were travelling to England to compete, until Nicola came up with her legally dubious ban on "crossing the border".

Presumably neither aberdonians or sports people are considered likely to vote Snp.

@PrelovedWithValue

Christ. A "luxury" to have a 50k one bedroom flat in a declining city centre so you have to pay for a hotel every time you want to shop on the mainland

Yes.

Second homes are not essential. Travelling to Aberdeen is not essential (or desirable to be honest. It used to be a place that many Shetlanders, me included, spent quite a bit of time. Not any more. And that's not just because of the recent downturn in oil. More and more, people are choosing Glasgow or Edinburgh or further afield instead).

If you think a second home is an essential, you have truly lost touch with the majority of people in a country where food bank use is rising quickly.

If you think thats what I said, quote me instead of making up things.

I did not say it wax "essential". It's also not a luxury. That is not the question in point. Owning more than one home is standard across the world. How did we get into the situation in Scotland where there is all this online criticism of people who choose to spend their own money that they have earned? Other people in other countries often have second homes.

I agree with you that it now makes more sense to take that money and spend it outwith scotland. Who in their right mind would risk buying a second home here when theres so much hatred around and god knows what tax the government will slap on them next?

How depressing to live in a country where "food bank use is increasing", along with child poverty and drugs related deaths. No wonder people are leaving. Other countries seem to manage to increase their prosperity and economic situations, rather than an online battle as to who can "prove" their non-aspirational ambitions to be the lowest, or to name-check their favourite conceptualisation of poverty.

The posters saying that SNP aren't protecting women's rights...can you link a reliable source that you are reading this information please?

Have you taken the time to actually read the SNP policy for trans and intersex people? If you're basing your opinion on what the 'Spectator' publishes then you are very misinformed.

The SNP are not trying to diminish women's rights and women will still be protected, it says that in black in white in their policy however, people would prefer to believe what they read on Facebook and right wing papers.

@florafoxtrot apologies should correct to less SNP voters in Aberdeen but original post last paragraph stated not a SNP stronghold 😉

Of course I'm not the only person effected my point was the SG has been woeful in assisting the North East and I think people won't forget that.

The current stats for the North East Scotland unemployment are shocking as is reported in the North East. Yet SG have said very little about it.

"This has led to falls in payroll employment that are nearly twice that of Scotland as a whole.

It is also reflected in the number of people claiming unemployment related benefits, which is up 136% in Aberdeen city and 123% in Aberdeenshire on last year"

You said it was 'something fairly essential, not a luxury'

Happy to quote you to demonstrate I'm not making things up.

@PrelovedWithValue

You said it was 'something fairly essential, not a luxury'

Happy to quote you to demonstrate I'm not making things up.

You are misquoting me though - that's in the post where i replied to you above.

Maybe, rather than trying to trip posters on Internet forums up over words we might or might nit have used, you might want to consider how in Scotland we have got I to the situation of not being able to do aspirational things that hard working people did in the past, such as owning a little flat in the nearest city when we live on an island?

To anyone in the rest of Europe, that decline in living standards would be a cause for concern.

Why shouldn't Scots have second homes in their own country, while Norwegians, Danes and swedes do? It's cheaper for foreigners to buy in Scotland than it is for Scots to buy a second home here!

@wildwildsouth

The posters saying that SNP aren't protecting women's rights...can you link a reliable source that you are reading this information please?

Have you taken the time to actually read the SNP policy for trans and intersex people? If you're basing your opinion on what the 'Spectator' publishes then you are very misinformed.

The SNP are not trying to diminish women's rights and women will still be protected, it says that in black in white in their policy however, people would prefer to believe what they read on Facebook and right wing papers.

Why do you need a "reliable source" for the likely effects of proposed legislation? Just read the hate crime Bill on the Scottish government website and Google something like the law society of Scotland's concerns over it. It's not as if it's hard to find informed comment.

Upon reading the bill, remind yourself that sex will be the only protected characteristic not included in the bill. So women, and it is usually women who suffer from sex based crimes such as murder, rape, threats of violence, stalking by ex partners, and abuse, will have to rely on the existing laws, which are certainly inadequate judging by the paltry conviction rates for rape alone.

Ironically, the bill creates the situation of trans women having far more legal protections than natal women.

The message is clear - pile into sex discrimination as much as you like, because they are considered a free for all by the Scottish government.

I'm not misquoting you. I'm not trying to trip you up.

You are making a frankly false claim that a second home in Aberdeen is pretty much essential to Shetlanders. It's not. That's it. That's my whole point

Why you then think I need to be told about secund homes in general throughout the world, when I've said nothing about that, I haven't made any judgment on people that have or do not have second homes. And I'm not getting involved in that discussion, no matter how many times you try to lead me into it.

@BlueMoonRising

This type of blatant intolerance and trying to tell people what to do is almost enough on its own to persuade me to vote Conservative

And yet you seem blind to the blatant intolerance to anyone voting SNP on this thread, maybe you should vote SNP for that reason

How do you work that out?

Unionist party supporters: "I respect your right to have a different opinion"

Nationalists: "Why don't you go back to England you Tory scum?" (to anyone who votes for anything else, even Labour)

@PrelovedWithValue

I'm not misquoting you. I'm not trying to trip you up.

You are making a frankly false claim that a second home in Aberdeen is pretty much essential to Shetlanders. It's not. That's it. That's my whole point

Why you then think I need to be told about secund homes in general throughout the world, when I've said nothing about that, I haven't made any judgment on people that have or do not have second homes. And I'm not getting involved in that discussion, no matter how many times you try to lead me into it.

OK, to get away from this "she said, you said" juvenile level of debate, I will clarify that I do not think that a second home in Aberdeen is essential for Shetlanders.

Some however, my family included, do seem it essential.

Are you going to go round and inquisition them?

Again, can someone explain to me why Scots, and only Scots, are being so deterred by their government and online rhetoric for wanting something that is perfectly normal in most if Europe?

@reprehensibleme

At the moment, every single election might as well be a rerun of the referendum. If the SNP perhaps shelved a rerun for a few years (maybe a generation ), concentrated on getting the country back on it's feet and using the interim to show that Scotland could be a successful independent nation, maybe support for independence would grow in a positive way. But they don't do that.

No they don’t...

Aided and abetted by the conservatives also banging on about being against independence at every opportunity instead of the fact they’re in actual government and could implement stuff quite easily, but don’t and supported by tactical voters...

If you’re a conservative voter, vote for them.

But if you’re not and you vote for then just as an anti SNP vote, you’re helping keep this whole never ending shit show going.

[quote Scottishskifun]@florafoxtrot apologies should correct to less SNP voters in Aberdeen but original post last paragraph stated not a SNP stronghold 😉

Of course I'm not the only person effected my point was the SG has been woeful in assisting the North East and I think people won't forget that.

The current stats for the North East Scotland unemployment are shocking as is reported in the North East. Yet SG have said very little about it.

"This has led to falls in payroll employment that are nearly twice that of Scotland as a whole.

It is also reflected in the number of people claiming unemployment related benefits, which is up 136% in Aberdeen city and 123% in Aberdeenshire on last year"[/quote]
Appreciate the apology.

I appreciate your point around NE unemployment and the perception on the SG and you could be right in saying this will sway how people vote.

I think it has the potential to be an interesting one! There is no doubt the Tories are focusing quite strongly on the NE and believe there is an opportunity here.

@DdraigGoch

These are the first ones I found by randomly scrolling and stopping.

Honestly the anti-Tory people on here are nuts!

And

*:17reprehensibleme

But of course the SNP play every win as support for a referendum so that argument doesn't wash if you don't support independence.

Do SNP supporters at all understand the level of distress the continual threat of another referendum causes some people?

Today 09:19RaspberryCoulis

No, @reprehensibleme, they don't.

They don't have a clue.

Today 09:19mermaidsariel

They don’t care. They’re only interested in pushing their own agenda.*

And

We really must ensure that these Scottish Nats. realise we do not want them any more and we certainly don't want another referendum

And

It's no wonder people are considering voting tory when you observe the utter disdain coming from SNP supporters for anyone worried about another referendum and the fallout, the HCB, GRA, the mess the education system is in, drug deaths etc etc

The stuff about Shetland is bollocks. you might see a second home as essential but the vast majority of Shetlanders stay in a hotel or B&B.
Shetland, like Aberdeen, has been propped up for decades by Oil money, nowhere else in Scotland has the facilities there are there.
That shetlanders vote LibDem despite a proven liar as an MP is a relic from the past in the days of Jo Grimond and an unwillingness to change and absolutely zero to do with their policies.
They were also one of the few places to vote for Brexit due to the ‘fishing for leave’ campaign and we all know how well regaining control of our fishing grounds worked out.

@AlmostInsane

The stuff about Shetland is bollocks. you might see a second home as essential but the vast majority of Shetlanders stay in a hotel or B&B. Shetland, like Aberdeen, has been propped up for decades by Oil money, nowhere else in Scotland has the facilities there are there. That shetlanders vote LibDem despite a proven liar as an MP is a relic from the past in the days of Jo Grimond and an unwillingness to change and absolutely zero to do with their policies. They were also one of the few places to vote for Brexit due to the ‘fishing for leave’ campaign and we all know how well regaining control of our fishing grounds worked out.

It's not essential. FFS why are people so obsessed over the use of words? Such an aggressive post!

Glad you think that a long standing pattern of second hone ownership in Aberdeen can be dismissed as "bollocks".

It's not just islanders, I have friends from Banchory who enjoyed owning a flat in Aberdeen for the nightlife. Sold it 6 years ago because let's face it, no one would go into Aberdeen for a pleasant night out now.

"the facilities there are there" where? Aberdeen? Lerwick? Such as MRI scanners and motorways maybe?

How can there be such a disconnect between the different parts of Scotland? Its not that big. Such disdain for anywhere outwith the central belt and Dundee.

None of my family from Shetland (farmers, professionals) and the Banchory friends worked in the oil and gas industry.

Why on earth would you need or want a motorway in Shetland! I mean.. seriously.
Facilities like a leisure centre in every other village, more swimming pools than high schools. The Gilbert Bain is better equipped and can deal with a much wider range of things than even Raigmore a lot of the time. MRI scanner? The one the community raised the funds for, like the CT Scanner? Sure the MRI isn’t in place yet but that’s because the hospital needs and extension to house it.

Bluemoonrising I could go through this thread and find the nasty insults put the way of people daring to suggest they may vote for the tories. Being accused of voting maliciously, not having a moral compass, being a hypocrite and much more - all on this thread. And this division is pretty much wholly down to the SNP pushing ahead for another referendum. They've divided this country more than the tories have ever done.

@AlmostInsane

Why on earth would you need or want a motorway in Shetland! I mean.. seriously. Facilities like a leisure centre in every other village, more swimming pools than high schools. The Gilbert Bain is better equipped and can deal with a much wider range of things than even Raigmore a lot of the time. MRI scanner? The one the community raised the funds for, like the CT Scanner? Sure the MRI isn’t in place yet but that’s because the hospital needs and extension to house it.

As you well know, I had previously talked multiple times about the need for motorways on Scotland bwtween the central belt and Aberdeen and Inverness. Of course there's no need for a bloody motorway in Shetland - what idiot would suggest that?

Yes, a journey in a plane for anyone who needs an mri scanner is just great because the hospital is too small to have one. The hospital in the lofoten Islands in Norway has one though.

And yes, there are some tiny, non full sized swimming pools in some tiny leisure centres in Shetland - just like normal sports facilities that you have in places of comparable size in other European countries then.

Maybe because the local authority is less corrupt than those in Edinburgh and Glasgow and more likely to spend money on the people that actually live there, crater than their cronies' propped up businesses?

God, you really hate the North of Scotland, don't you? Such utter arrogance and deep disdain.