To think you can't judge someone by one mistake

[ButtonMoony]

YABU - people never change
YANBU - without all the details you shouldn't judge.

Prompted by another thread about a bloke who did prison time for punching someone. Lots of comments deciding he is a violent man and likely to be again in the future without knowing ANY fact.

Also prompted by my own experience.

Never any trouble with the police for 40 plus years. Successful business woman, PTA blah blah.

Husband left, business crashed, I had a full on mental breakdown. Crisis teams, inpatient treatment, sectioned, the works.

During a period of my life that I honestly can't remember and whilst in the depths of a depression I wouldn't wish on anyone I was convicted for drink driving.

So. Should I be judged by people for the rest of my life and deemed a threat to people as I might do it again (I won't. Sober. Re married. Back in employment) or should people consider overall circumstances before making a snap decision about someone based on one mistake.

[UhtredRagnarson]

OP in your first post you said your conviction was down to a mental breakdown due to relationship break up, job loss etc. And now you have come back and said it wasn’t anything to do with that at all- that it was just because someone else drove into you and you were an hour short of being below the limit from the night before which is something everyone does.

So which is it? Were your actions perfectly normal and just bad luck that someone hit you or were they a result of your breakdown. You have presented two excuses- both of which appear to make it not your fault.

[worriedatthemoment]

@poppycat10 I bet most on here have done it just prob not been caught or don't consider it a bad crime. Yet it can have devastating consequences and could result in a criminal conviction.

[steppemum]

The punching thing is interesting though.
I have a ds with a short temper. He and his siblings used to fight.
Fighting is not allowed in our house and we have had dozens of conversations over the years about it 9and consequences etc etc)

He is also tall, now 6'3" and muscley, and also a red head.
When he got to about 13, I started to talk to him seriously about why he needed to find a way of self control. How he was going to deal with it when he was older and someone insulted him, that he had to find another way of responding, because if he threw a punch at someone outside a pub when they called him carrots, he was the one who was going to be in trouble, and he could potentially kill someone.

It has been a long road for him to find that inner strength to have the control, to learn to walk away, or to respond in some other way. He does have it now. But I imagine many young men have not had those conversations and training.

[worriedatthemoment]

@UhtredRagnarson no op said was in a bad time in their life , then explained the situation further and circumstances.

[BrumBoo]

For me, it comes down to how your act harmed others. There are criminal acts that are 'forgivable', there are acts where technically no criminal activity had taken place that I'd absolutely judge that person for and probably never think well of them.

Being caught over the limit after drinking the night before - I mean it's a thin line for me. It's not the same as knowing you've just been drinking before getting behind the wheel, though many would disagree. Severe mental distress can cause people to make utterly stupid decisions, I dont think that's a matter of others 'forgiveness' though, it simply is what it is and you were lucky no one was harmed as a result of this. Being irresponsible but ultimately without consequences for anyone but yourself, absolutely learning from it as with any mistake and showing zero inclination to go down that road again - I think you don't need anyone else's validation for living the rest of your life in a happy and peaceful manner.

[grapewine]

I'm not going to change my mind that you knew what you were doing, just because you find that statement unfair. We haven't all done it, and I'm sure as hell not in any middle class bubble.

[UhtredRagnarson]

[quote worriedatthemoment]@UhtredRagnarson no op said was in a bad time in their life , then explained the situation further and circumstances.
[/quote]
And explained it wouldnt happened again because

Sober. Re married. Back in employment

Which very strongly implies those were the reasons it happened!

[UCOforAC12]

Whilst suffering from post partum psychosis a friend, with no previous history of violence, attempted to murder her child. Rightly children's services removed her children from her but they believed she could change with treatment and support. Her children now live back with her and she is a competent parent who rarely loses her temper.

I actually don't judge her for what she did (I didn't know her before the psychosis but others did) and I saw what a loving parent she was.

So I believe during mental health crises people should not be held accountable for their actions for the rest of their lives. That's why the law has 'diminished responsibility' because it recognises people can't always be found responsible for their actions.

I agree with pp comments about dishonesty. That's a value rather than a consequence of mental illness. Someone who can be dishonest without it being a part of who they are would be extremely rare.

A family friend in a professional role was jailed for dishonest dealings with client money. They could never work in that profession again and they were at the top of their game. The whole community was stunned. No one saw it coming. But it permanently changed my opinion of them.

So there are forgivable circumstances and there are unforgivable circumstances in my opinion.

[denverRegina]

@worriedatthemoment

"which makes me think you work with them
Nice to know your impartial"

Who said I'm not impartial? Managing risk (by taking away the means to reoffend amongst other things) doesn't make someone judgemental.

The pp who claims anyone who says that the OP should be deemed a higher risk than she is must be in "a middle class bubble" is much more judgemental. Shame you can't think deeply enough to see that.

Offender management is all about deeming potential risks, what do you think it's about if not that?

[ButtonMoony]

@UhtredRagnarson

You need to go back and re read

[romdowa]

This is all very situational. From your initial post I was quite ready not to judge but after seeing your numerous replies , I judge you. It was a stupid mistake on your behalf for sure but your attitude towards it is the issue. You've no remorse , you feel hard done by. Had you said yep I fucked up , that's on me . Then I'd have far more respect for you and for anybody who makes a mistake and owns it .

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

False binary choice set up by the sympathetic slant you've taken to your version of your experience.

And that's coming from someone who gives umpteen second chances to people and is sympathetic to 'out of character' 'odd set of circumstances' one-off mistakes.

However, it's rare for a single transgression to exist. It's the scale and number that determines a pattern. Even so, I dare say a number of us are related to repeated transgressors and/or have them in our social circle whether we know it or not.

[ravenmum]

If you know a piece of information about someone, it is an evolutionary advantage to store that information away and use it when making decisions about how you are going to relate to that person. We call it "judging".

When I first moved into my flat, I heard my neighbour's bf yelling at her violently in the middle of the night. I knocked on the door and asked if she was OK; she said yes. The yelling stopped. The next day she apologised and said that he'd forgotten to take his medication and it was out of character. Since then I've heard his voice raised, but nothing like on that occasion.

When I bump into him in the street I say hello nicely, but that information is still stored away in my head. When I hear his voice raised at night, I listen out to see if I might need to call the police. If I saw my neighbour had bruises, I'd have a word with her.

If I knew your history, I'd be friendly to you but would still think twice about accepting lifts on a night out.

Are you saying that if you knew a man had a history of punching people, you'd totally forget that and not factor it in when making decisions?

[Thatisnotwhatisaid]

It depends on the mistake obviously. I don’t think certain things can be excused as a one off mistake never to be repeated, things such as rape and child molestation for example. I don’t think paedophiles can be reformed and I don’t think that’s a particularly controversial opinion at all, they are sexually attracted to prepubescent children and I don’t think that can ever be changed. Rapists get off on the control so they’re always capable of doing that more than once.

Murder is a tricky one. Whilst clearly heinous, I don’t think you can compare a woman murdering her abuser with a man going on a wild rampage murdering innocent strangers iykwim. Some are more easily forgiven than others.

Silly mistakes like getting caught stealing then never doing it again or taking drugs in your teens etc, I don’t think anyone should be judged for things like that forever because it really isn’t that serious.

[smudgemylife]

How come the police were called and you were breathalised for being rear ended?
I've been in an accident that wasn't my fault - swapped insurance details and carried on our merry way.

[UhtredRagnarson]

You need to go back and re read

Which parts specifically have I misread?

[MarcelinesMa]

Depends on the mistake. Putting 2 sugars in your tea instead of 1 is a mistake. Killing someone by punching them isn’t really a mistake in the sense that you know it’s dangerous and something awful could happen. Same with driving while drunk. You know when you take that risk you could seriously hurt or kill someone. That’s not a mistake in my opinion and forgiveness is a personal thing.

[Maggiesfarm]

@grapewine

I'm not going to change my mind that you knew what you were doing, just because you find that statement unfair. We haven't all done it, and I'm sure as hell not in any middle class bubble.

We may not have done that precisely but we have all done things of which we are ashamed and resolved not to do again.

What has a 'middle class bubble' to do with anything? Making mistakes, doing things wrong, happens across the board, nothing to do with class. Some thing are worse than others and have graver consequences which have to be lived with for life but I'm certainly not going to judge others for human mistakes. They have enough trouble coming to terms with those things themselves and don't need the likes of me piling on. I'm no saint anyway.

[notalwaysalondoner]

I've always tried to take the view that the penal system exists so that once someone has done their punishment, society should do our best to move on from what they did as they've undertaken the societally agreed consequences for their behaviour. This, however, is of course easier said than done. For example, I would struggle to forgive/forget repeat offenders. In your example, I agree you shouldn't have this one incident when you were very mentally ill held above your head forever, but I also appreciate that others here with personal experiences of drink drivers take a different view.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

Just because someone gets convicted once doesn’t make them good people. Most pedophiles build up to convictions and only really go to jail once but probably still are doing illegal things afterwards - they just get better at hiding them.

Comparing a mental breakdown to a crime is doing yourself a disservice. Breakdowns aren’t mistakes - they’re outcomes.

[GnomeDePlume]

@smudgemylife someone drove into the back of me one morning as I drove to work. Both of us were breathalysed as there was a police car in the vicinity (also it was in the run up to Christmas).

[shreddednips]

[quote denverRegina]@worriedatthemoment

"which makes me think you work with them
Nice to know your impartial"

Who said I'm not impartial? Managing risk (by taking away the means to reoffend amongst other things) doesn't make someone judgemental.

The pp who claims anyone who says that the OP should be deemed a higher risk than she is must be in "a middle class bubble" is much more judgemental. Shame you can't think deeply enough to see that.

Offender management is all about deeming potential risks, what do you think it's about if not that? [/quote]
I agree. There's a difference between judgement and risk management.

For example, I have a relative who is a recovered alcoholic. He also had mental health problems while he was drinking and did some pretty upsetting and risky things. He has a history of relapsing very suddenly without any outward warning.

He's worked so hard on taking responsibility and getting therapy and support to cope with his issues. I'm really proud of him and he deserves to live a full and happy life without constantly feeling awful about it. I don't think he's a bad person at all.

However, I wouldn't leave him in sole charge of my DC. I don't think that's judgement, just risk management based on the type of thing I know can happen.

[DrSbaitso]

I am sorry for your horrendous experiences. I don’t think you are a bad person in any way, or that you should be punished beyond what you've already done. But I do not think anyone is obliged to get in the car with you if it worries them, or that they are bad people for feeling that way.

[smudgemylife]

@GnomeDePlume ah fair enough. I suppose driving into the back of someone shows not paying attention but for the person being hit it's a bit unavoidable.

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

[quote ButtonMoony]@UhtredRagnarson

You need to go back and re read[/quote]
Or, UR has read and come to a different understanding than you do.

If you're now claiming that you were within an hour of not being over the limit - it's (erroneously?) raising the possibility that you're accustomed to driving when using your own estimation of when your BAL is within the limits.