Are women treated as second class citizens by the NHS?

[urkidding]

The pill causes clots but a lot of women are supposed to put up with this risk. Good GPs may inform them, it is written in small print in the booklet in their pill packets. The pill causes lots of side effects , depression, weight increase, bloating being some of them. Now it is interesting that the MHRA dealt with the blood clots caused by the Oxford vaccine straight away, yet the pill has hardly changed. I know there are alternatives, but they are less effective. New alternatives can be developed, but the drug companies have no incentive in developing them as the NHS had accepted it in its present form. I very much doubt that men would put up with this sort of medication.

@dontdisturbmenow what has the fact that male privilege has and does still exist got to to do with science?

Male friend and I went into hospital within two days of each other .

He was kept in for a week on a ward with eczema . Given painkillers, specialist care, nursing care, medication etc.

I was having major surgery - I was told I'd be looked after on a specialist ward, with a morphine pump and a catheter for three days .

I was put on a day surgery unit, no bed, just a trolley, no pain relief, no catheter, no buzzer, not even a hand to the toilet . Discharged 12 hours later with my mum having to hold me up .

He went home feeling a hundred times better .

I went home with PTSD .

The NHS is definitely, absolutely dropping the ball with gynaecology care.

Then maybe let's start with this. A lot of talk if facts and evidence.

www.amazon.co.uk/Invisible-Women-Exposing-World-Designed-ebook/dp/B07CQ2NZG6?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

There you go. A book full. You can also look at NHS reports documenting discrimination against women and minority groups rooted in assumptions made incorrectly eg the way in which utterly debilitating and life limiting gynae conditions are classified as elective treatments.

Let's share scientific evidence to read here. Not articles with no scientific foundations from feminists groups

Women do science, data and feminism all at once. They are not exclusive knowledge areas.

Equality doesnt work in medical studies.

A big problem is men and womens bodies are different and present symptom and side effects differently. There needs to be enough recurrent of women in trials to get statisticly significant gender specific results. Generally there are often more men than women which can lead to womens symptoms being dismissed by the profession because it doesnt fit their teaching.

Even simple things like the RDA should be very differently for women and men. Women need a lot more

@dontdisturbmenow i wish we could the problem is the scientific studies on illnesses and treatments are nit collecting the right data.
The data is needed to identify problems. We cant keep pretending gender doesnt influence how the boby responds.
e.g. The heart attacks in women often dont present as chest pain so are easily misdiagnosed because that is one of the biggest symptoms doctors look for

We cant keep pretending gender doesnt influence how the body responds.
Sex rather than gender, here, surely?

@dontdisturbmenow when our actual government and NHS admit there's disparity in more likely to believe them than it's just "moaning women". I've worked on the frontline in women's healthcare and I was apparently a lone wolf in thinking women deserved decent healthcare. And HCPs can help, but often don't - and not just fear of safety but because of internalised misogyny too (though fear does play a big part). It doesn't shake away on the job I'm afraid.

We once had a woman whose ovarian cysts had ruptured and she was doubled over on the bed in excruciating pain, moaning out loud. Her husband was apparently unable to look after their 3 children all under about 8 so brought them along to the ward, they were there when I came on shift. She'd been given paracetamol, nothing else for the pain. They kept prodding her and saying "mum can you tie our shoelace" - clearly they've been raised to believe dad can't do that. He also allowed them to run between the curtains of other patients (because let's face it, women to him are invisible/irrelevant). No one had told him they couldn't be there (it wasn't visiting hours and he was mostly playing on his phone so no use to the patient). I went in and said you'll have to go down to the cafe your kids are disturbing other patients and your wife is too distressed for visitors. He actually rang his mum to come along so he could 'get help' in the cafe. I pointed out his wife may be here for some time as she will be getting surgery later so maybe he should think of a plan on how to look after his own children. The matron was on duty and heard and told me I was harsh I said well I think it's harsh to make her suffer with just paracetamol could she please be given something stronger. I'm good friends with nurses on other wards and pain relief is rarely regularly denied, but I assure you women ARE expected to cope with the pain. I've since moved away from the Trust I worked in but I'd be travelling an extra 40 minutes to avoid that place if I had anything go wrong with me (it's also a hospital now in special measures).

This makes for dismal but wholly unsurprising reading.

I now have a female GP after some unpleasant experiences with one doctor.

Thinks he’s God - very dismissive of valid concerns which just means you struggle for longer, ultimately become more ill and then spend more NHS money seeing someone sensible who listens and immediately adjust your meds dosage appropriately... Hey presto you feel better. (Meantime I’m left feeling really and pointlessly patronised).

Happy to say I’ve had reasonable treatment for gynae issues from men and women doctors and consultants and I often reflect that I was just lucky as almost everyone I know with these illnesses hasn’t been so fortunate.

Having babies in a UK hospital however - pretty abysmal. Whoever said that it feels like being on a Conveyor belt - that is precisely how it feels and yes the mother is just a non human baby carrier. Horrific. Pain appears to be routinely ignored.

Don’t get me started on the early scans to check for miscarriage following bleeding etc where you’re expected to wait /exit / share reception with all the visibly pregnant and very happy people before and after your unhappy scan. Astonishing really. I still remember this and feel this made the MMC worse for me. It was 14 years ago.

YANBU and from personal experience and what I read on these forums, the mirena is being "pushed" on women as the solution to just about any gynae problem these days. Sometimes, even before they've done investigations into why people are experiencing heavy / irregular bleeding.

I have just completed the government survey on women's health. This thread (among others) has been helpful. I also quoted "Invisible Women". It would be a good thing if whoever was commissioning services read it. I have it on my kindle but just ordered a paper copy so I can have it around the place and lend it to family members.

Pretty much everything that women suffer from is explained away.

Period pain? Oh well, normal, you'll just have to live with it.

Severe menstrual bleeding? Ditto.

Horrible menopausal symptoms? Oh what a pity, never mind, one of those things.

Tiredness, exhaustion, chronic pain, sleeplessness? You're probably depressed.

Aches and pains? To be expected at your time of life, dear.

Any/all other random symptoms? Choose a stock answer as above.

"You're probably depressed."
Yes, that would be due to the shoddy level of "care."

The percentage of people on ads is a wArning call in itself imo.

How do you propose we set up a scientific comparison between women and men when looking at gynaecology and obstetrics? There isn't one: men don't have those issues. Some men have issues with urology, prostate, etc but that doesn't affect large numbers of men of all ages so is not comparable.

Scientific study has its place but so do people's individual experiences. Especially when those collected together give a picture. I find it sad that you don't seem to value those experiences at all.

We need to be heard. Can people post links to the various agencies? The MHRA for side affects of the pill, who do we get to look at the ridiculous processes and procedures in gynaecology wards, which seem to be there to make sure women get no rest when they are in hospital? It is not acceptable. We need to complain to the hospitals and be critical about what we didn't like. It didn't matter when you had the baby. It's the exhaustion and vulnerability after having baby which stopped you complaining straight away, so do it now.Let them know you exist and expect things to change. And all hospitals are not the same. We want a gold standard everywhere, so that when our daughters have babies or take the pill they have a better experience. I'm tired of the talk about NHS cuts, and how it becomes political. There is plenty of money available as the Covid crisis has shown, it's where it's spent that matters.

@WrapUpWarm2021

The percentage of people on ads is a wArning call in itself imo.

Especially when ADs become the next 'target' for cutting back on, the way people in pain are now made to suffer horribly because of fear of addiction. The ADs will be next.

A number of women here have said they have had to change to women GPs. It is about time incompetent GPs were fired. These jobs seem to be for life, and it doesn't seem to matter how incompetent they are.
www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-to-complain-if-you-re-unhappy-with-your-gp-or-doctor-s-surgery-a2fyc8v0Q7Nj

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/womens-health-strategy-call-for-evidence
This is the link to the survey.
consultations.dhsc.gov.uk/talkwomenshealth
This is the online survey, it expires in May. Please fill it in so that you are heard.