Are women treated as second class citizens by the NHS?

[urkidding]

The pill causes clots but a lot of women are supposed to put up with this risk. Good GPs may inform them, it is written in small print in the booklet in their pill packets. The pill causes lots of side effects , depression, weight increase, bloating being some of them. Now it is interesting that the MHRA dealt with the blood clots caused by the Oxford vaccine straight away, yet the pill has hardly changed. I know there are alternatives, but they are less effective. New alternatives can be developed, but the drug companies have no incentive in developing them as the NHS had accepted it in its present form. I very much doubt that men would put up with this sort of medication.

My sister had a blood clot caused by the pill when she was in her 20s. She went into hospital and at no point was she told she should take aspirin to reduce blood clots. She had a stroke caused by a blood clot at 49, which has left her disabled.

Blood clots causes by the pill are generally a different type to those which have been potentially connected to the vaccines. Mama Doctor Jones did a good video about this the other day. She also explained that the blood clot risk has been coming down a lot compared to when the pill first started and that the pill has a lower risk of blood clotting than pregnancy which it is used to prevent!

You do have a point I joist think it’s much wider than the pill. Especially about how women’s pain and chronic illness is treated. There have been studies that show if men and women present with the same pain based symptoms at A&E men will be seen faster and get access to pain relief much sooner.

Heart attacks present differently in women but the symptoms are not as well known so more women die from their first heart attack than men do.

I’ve also experienced being fobbed off by the GP until I bring a man in with me, whether it be my dad or my husband. I generally try now to only see female GPs if I can.

I don’t think we can blame the NHS specifically though, as others have said it must been much worse in other counties where people don’t have free health care.

With regard to the pill, it isn't the NHS, it's society in general.

It is absolutely outrageous that the 'go to' contraception is the pill. Absolutely and utterly outrageous. For all the side effects listed. And for what? So that the poor men don't have a slightly less wonderful experience by wearing a condom. What the absolute fuck?
We should be teaching our children that the boys wear a condom. And that's that.

When I gave birth to my first, my then husband, an oral surgeon, said if he left patients in the pain I was left in, he'd be struck off.

FGS, it's got nothing to do with sexism. Do we really have to turn everything we are challenging as racist or sexist.

The pill causes clots
No it doesn't. It may, in a very small cases increase the risk.

Do you know that paracetamol can increase risks if heart attacks. Oh wait, that's not a drug for women only, so who cares!

Almost every drugs comes with some very small increase risks of affect to our health, the pill is just one of them.

Yes we are

We have to quietly put up with painful periods. hormonal imbalances, how our hormones effect is day to day and then the menopause. So many women have to beg their gp to have HRT (a colleague is at the moment compiling a list as her GP has said no - she has no reason why she shouldn’t be on it)

Becuase its nature we have to put up and shut up. It’s only very recently we can be more open but how many here would openly say to male colleagues they have period pains it’s still a dirty secret

arethereanyleftatall

I never felt quite myself when I was on the pill. Some pills gave me terrible headaches

And as for constantly taking the pill so you do not have a period how can’t that possibly be good for the body (though I can completely understand why women who have extremely heavy and painful periods do this)

@lljkk

There are drugs for men-only with risks of unpleasant side effects.

Men generally have much worse health outcomes for any of the sex-shared possible health outcomes. Men have a good case for saying their health needs are too ignored given they carry a larger burden of morbidity & mortality.

Er, no That drug is also used in women for fibroids, a relatively benign and much less dangerous condition than cancer. To warm your heart, as your link says, there have been no studies as to whether the drug is safe and effective on women yet it’s prescribed anyway.

More widely, that class of drug (GNRH antagonists) are very regularly prescribed to women for far less serious conditions than cancer. I’ve taken it twice in the last year as part of treatment for endometriosis and to prepare for IVF.

Women with endometriosis and adenomyosis are regularly fobbed off by the NHS and left on these drugs. There is a UK prescribing limit of 6 months in your lifetime yet women are regularly left on them for 12 months or longer instead of being offered surgery and other investigations.

These women are at risk of extremely serious side effects - permanent bone density loss, development of fibromyalgia and untreatable fatigue, and failure of the kidney and other important organs.

Interestingly they’re the same drugs given to transgender children to block puberty.

And thyroid issues

Women are effected more. Even trying to get a thyroid function test is difficult.
I was fibbed off with I needed to diet and improve my lifestyle

@dontdisturbmenow

FGS, it's got nothing to do with sexism. Do we really have to turn everything we are challenging as racist or sexist.

The pill causes clots
No it doesn't. It may, in a very small cases increase the risk.

Do you know that paracetamol can increase risks if heart attacks. Oh wait, that's not a drug for women only, so who cares!

Almost every drugs comes with some very small increase risks of affect to our health, the pill is just one of them.

Why do you think it’s acceptable for women to bear the unilateral risk of taking the pill then? Wouldn’t you prefer to see it researched and a safer version with fewer side effects created?

The pill basically hasn’t changed since the 1960s.

I’d agree with this. When I was younger (19) I had gynae problems and it took being seen by 4 different doctors before anyone took me seriously (i ended up needing an operation). More problems when I’ve gotten older and again whenever it’s problems relating to being female then it’s an eye roll and told to get on with it basically. I experience horrific side effects from the pill but they creep up on me slowly so it took me a long time to realise that the pill was to blame.

@Porridgeislife the pill has changed a lot since the 60s the doses used now are much lower than those used to when it first came in and there’s more choice in the types of pill.

In a simple answer-yes we are and have been for years. MESH, Thyroid diagnosis and treatment, breast implants scandal. These issues all directly affect women. The treatment and diagnosis for thyroid issues is about 30 years behind. I have found some GPs sympathetic, but their hands are tied. The best one I had was a GP who asked me why I got an appointment with him, rather than my own GP. I had hardly sat in the chair yet.In my Thyroid Support Group, there were about 2 men, everyone else was female. I find snooty, condescending consultants the biggest problem ( I am talking pre-Covid days here). I also hasten to add the worse by far I attended was a female consultant, who was so far up her own back, it's a wonder she could see. Bitter much, yes I am. Years of misery with a condition that has no cure and one medication. I would like to know when men go to the doctor, how often are they told, it's all your in your head, it's anxiety or offered a questionnaire about depression. I have a family member who died from a type of cancer, she was demented with pain and was told it was in her mind. I avoid doctors like the plague, unless I really cannot avoid going.

@PinkPlantCase if it’s so good these days, why does it still come with a list of very common and unpleasant side effects?

Oh, and not forgetting the non existent help for Menopause, forgot that one.

Why do you think it’s acceptable for women to bear the unilateral risk of taking the pill then?
I've never said that. I totally agree with men using condoms if the woman doesn't want to go in the pill.

Saying that, women (and men) engaged every day in activities that put them at much higher risks to their health, mainly alcohol drinking and over eating, so when that's the case, I do find it hypocritical to use this as an excuse.

@Porridgeislife I didn’t say it was good, I just said it had changed since the 60s.

Have you ever had to take other long term medication? Everything has side effects. So much about finding the right medication for yourself is trial and error and that isn’t just with birth control.

The pill is annoying in how long doctors ask for you to stick out bad side effects before offering an alternative but it’s the same with other medication.

I've never said that. I totally agree with men using condoms if the woman doesn't want to go in the pill.

So the 1/3 of women who take the pill for a non contraceptive purpose should just put up and shut up then?

[quote PinkPlantCase]@Porridgeislife I didn’t say it was good, I just said it had changed since the 60s.

Have you ever had to take other long term medication? Everything has side effects. So much about finding the right medication for yourself is trial and error and that isn’t just with birth control.

The pill is annoying in how long doctors ask for you to stick out bad side effects before offering an alternative but it’s the same with other medication.[/quote]
Actually, I’ve got Stage 4 endo and last year had 6 hours of surgery to essentially free up my nerves, diaphragm, ureters and other pretty necessary organs from the disease.

I can talk for days about the side effects of unpleasant medication and the longer I spend with my condition I get angrier and angrier at how poorly women are treated by the medical community.

I read a report a few years ago, I think potentially on BBC, where it claimed more women die of heart attacks (not that more women actually have heart attacks, but that there's a higher mortality rate among those that do) because we are generally expected to deal better with pain. So if we complain about chest pain we are more likely to be fobbed off as being stressed etc than given treatment for it.

Who lives longer? Women or Men?

@mynameiscalypso

Yes. The government admits this. There's currently an open consultation about how women are treated by the NHS.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/womens-health-strategy-call-for-evidence/womens-health-strategy-call-for-evidence

It doesn't mean anything will change but I think it's widely acknowledged that women have very different (and often worse) experiences than men.

Thank you for highlighting this. I will have a read.

It is well evidenced that medical research has focused on male bodies. To the detriment of females. Often with the excuse that hormonal fluctuations make studying women too difficult. This is changing but not quickly enough.

I also agree that women are told to put up and shut up more often. Many women I know have been told something along the lines of 'What do you expect, you had a vaginal birth' or 'it's part of being a woman'.

Am not interested in 'What about the menz'. Their voices dominate. When it should be equal.

On the contraception front. How many forms target men. Condoms, vasectomy. Any more? Still no pill for men. Why? Because women won't trust them to take it and men dont want their virility questioned.

I do believe there is sexism in healthcare. I vividly remember a team of male and female medics discussing a patient and utterly horrified that he was facing urinary incontinence in his 60s. No one is having that same discussion about the vast amount of women suffering from urinary and fecal incontinence from childbirth injuries. Its just accepted that they wear a pad for 60 years.

During covid one trust made the surgical gynae ward into a medical overspill ward. Its a very busy specialty with emergencies and electives but its was decided that was the better ward to shut than the much quieter, mostly elective opthalmology ward.

@tilder
My understanding was that there was a pill for men produced, but because it had side effects, which were about a third as severe as side effects there were for the female pill, it wasn't approved.

I am also quite perplexed by the attitude of society to the pill/women having all manner of nasty contraceptives. I know a school friend who had a stroke in her 20s, most likely the pill was to blame. A friend who has mirena says it’s killed her sex drive completely and she just shags her husband when he wants - for him, not for her/both of them. These contraceptives act on a woman’s entire body as they have to emit hormones but nobody really gives a shit.

I’ve found huge sexism in healthcare. My dh is tall and when wearing a suit, he is treated as though he is the prime minister. When I walk in with kids, I am brushed off. To avoid this, I take dh. Pathetic that I have to resort to taking a man with me to be listened to. I tell him what to say and then he’s always listened to.