to believe the Mumsnet High Earners?

[LigPatin]

Every time there's a thread about earnings, there's always multiple posters who claim that most people on the thread must be inflating or plain lying about their salaries.

Whilst I recognise that people lie, especially on anonymous forums, I find it quite sad that people prefer to dismiss these posts as lies rather than take inspiration/education from them (or just not care).

I come from a poor background - we never had enough money to the point that food and electricity use was rationed. We weren't on the streets, but that was a looming possibility. We lived (mostly) within the midlands.

I fell into nannying as a career (having dreamed of being a primary school teacher) and my first job was in Kensington. The housekeeper had been gossiping about the rent on the house we worked in - it was £3k a WEEK. This was 2012-ish. I remember wondering how on Earth anyone could afford paying £200k+ a year on rent alone, when - in my mind - earning just £50k was amazingly rich.

I remember walking through Kensington and Knightsbridge and Chelsea and seeing thousands and thousands and thousands of these houses, all huge and grand and all presumably commanding similar rent or sale value than the one I worked in. They were all clearly lived in and used.

Perhaps it was arrogance, or naivety, but I figured that if there were enough people who could afford to pay £1k, £2k, £5k+ a week on rent (or buy million pound houses), then there must be a lot of money out there to be earned, and I couldn't see any reason as to why I couldn't find a way to get a share of that money.

That's sort of how I feel about these earning threads - hundreds of people are posting about their high salaries and instead of scoffing that they must be sad-sacks who hang out on Mumsnet to lie about their lifestyles - I think it's inspiring and encouraging to see so many women out there making amazing money and securing their futures.

FWIW - I was 21 back in Kensington, amazed at the £3k a week rent. I'm coming up to 30 now and my average yearly income is about £120k. I remind myself every day of how lucky I am, and how 21 year old me would have been incredulous. Though I'm, of course, absolutely nowhere near being able to rent a £3k a week house

@deardia

I'll tell you why I don't believe a lot of the high earners on mn. If someone is earning so much, there life and work must be very full on, busy, coming back from work and if there's children, regardless of age of the children, they would be busy with that aspect of their life. How then do they have time to come on mn so frequently. I am not a high earner, and days or even weeks will go by where I have not had a chance to come on to mn.

I'm a high earner and I spaff about on Mumsnet all the time.

As plenty of people have said, there are plenty of high paying jobs that don't require constant hard work. Case in point: mine (technology sector).

The idea that all high paying jobs are 'so hard' or 'so stressful' or have 'such long hours' is way off the mark.

When I was in my early twenties I was in a data entry role. It was long hours, stressful and tiring. I noticed that the consultants seemed to be more cheery and had more control over what they did. I got to know them. Turned out they also earned a more. I took note of what skills and attitude they had. I started to copy them. I got a grounding in the skills. I applied for a new role closer to what I wanted to do. I did it again. I kept doing it. Fast forward five years, I'm earning over £100K.

The thing that frustrates me is that I'm not particularly intelligent or hard-working. I didn't have a private education. I don't come from a wealthy background. But when I got to know some of the people I aspired to be, I realised that although some were geniuses, others just had a solid set of core skills and said the right thing at the right time. And I realised I could do that, too. The OP had a similar epiphany walking through Chelsea.

People (women especially) have an enormous tendency to underestimate themselves, what they are capable of. I'm not saying everyone can do it (or even would want to if they could), all I'm saying is a damn sight more people can than think.

It's such a shame so many people on here think it's unattainable. That attitude must surely be filtering down to your kids, to your daughters. They'll grow up 'knowing their limits,' and thinking big houses and fancy cars are for 'other people' you know, 'lucky people', 'rich people', people who 'work their lives away' and it just isn't the case.

@TheLastLotus

I meant "the vast majority" within the already disadvantaged not the whole society. Just to clarify.

I get the OPs point, I was more speaking how it can be interpreted. The idea of working hard equalling success is a sensitive subject to many and the opening post was not overly clear in making the distint difference between what shes clarified in later posts.

Honestly I think there is a degree of self preservation in the comments around high earners not having time for MN.

I think for those working 12 hour shifts with 90 min each way commutes; no help at home and juggling childcare it helps reconcile their own position by imagining that those who earn big salaries have to work horribly long hours and never see their children.

And as people keep saying it’s really important that women understand this is not necessarily true.

Yes, I think it's a self preservation mechanism. I once watched a vlog by a school teacher who was talking about her job and was at one point quite snarky about people who claim to make over £40k per year.

Unfortunately I worked far more hours when I was on a lower salary and starting out or "learning my trade". I know charge the same for a job that takes me two hours when years ago it would have taken me five/six hours. The reason I say unfortunately is that often how hard you work has very little to do with what you earn.
My partner works for a big company and those who have been promoted often don't work the hardest, aren't the best they just fit culturally and are confident and accomplished at self promotion. I find it quite obscene that in my industry, to be on £60k doesn't even make you very senior, there's just a lot of money to be had and as a society we don't value anyone in a supportive role. A cleaner can absolutely work her arse off... But there isn't mobility there.

Now charge *

Nice to know you are thriving. What bugs me about those who do boast is that they think £100k+ is average when it's far from it. Or complain about how unfair it is to be taxed at a higher rater.

There will be a mixture of genuine high earners and pure fantasists on here. I thought I was a high earner and my partner too until I started reading some of the posts about 200k being chicken fodder in the SE

complain about how unfair it is to be taxed at a higher rater.

People are always so generous with other people's money.
The day you will lose 50% of your income in tax you will change your mind. It's outrageous, and the reason why high earners don't stay on PAYE. So it's completely counter-productive anyway!

I congratulate LigPatin on her achievements, and her common sense and on her courage revisiting the thread she started and clarifying some points, and elaborating some answers. Good on you and delighted with your success.

But we should get down to the nitty-gritty. IME of schools, state and private (DS attended both, so I saw both sides) your average bog standard community college in most of the country (Cornwall here) needs to buck up their aspirations for most of their students. Locally, where my DH has a small manufacturing engineering company, there are three analytic laboratories (forensic, metal research and dental) and among the technical staff with degrees, not one was born locally (most are east/central European). So from that you might conclude that the local population is universally SEN... how daft is that?

There is a culture among comprehensive school teachers that they are there to nurse the failures to competence, rather than giving the majority of average students a sense of what is possible in their community. If I could design an INSET day, I would like to set them a task: write a CV this morning, and have a job offer (outside teaching) by 5.00 pm. Teachers, who have gone from school to university and teaching, back into schools have little idea of the reality of life outside the education game, hence they beguile themselves and their students with unrealistic follow your dreams cajolery, or they let them down with the idea that the best you can be is a till operator at the supermarket.

I did a PGCE (teaching secondary) after my real career, at 50, in the hope that some head would think I had something to offer, but no, they prefer easily managed and manipulated 23 year olds with endless stamina. I can see why too. Teaching is hard work.

If I may refine the task I set above, teachers should find a job earning as much as they do teaching....

@professorpootle not being purposefully dense, but if your company is worth 17m why have you had to take on massive debt to keep it going? Why not cash in some of that money that it’s worth? As you can probably tell I know nothing about running businesses.

Wow well done you, no one cares you earn 120k!

My husband and I both earn significantly more than £100k a year. Doesn't mean we've worked harder for it (a nurse or care home worker, for example, does far more work for far less reward). Doesn't mean we're brighter than others either - I know many, many people who are just as intelligent, if not more so, who earn much less. Also doesn't mean we have a great work/life balance - my DH loves (to complain about) his job but I'm totally bored with mine and don't see a way out - it's all I'm qualified for. In both cases we fell into roles that ended up paying extremely well, with little planning or preparation. That, to my thinking, is just dumb luck and nothing to be either proud or boastful of, and is why we give a very substantial chunk of our earnings to charity every month.

[quote whataboutbob]@professorpootle not being purposefully dense, but if your company is worth 17m why have you had to take on massive debt to keep it going? Why not cash in some of that money that it’s worth? As you can probably tell I know nothing about running businesses.[/quote]
Valuations don't always mean liquid assets. For example, DH's company is worth £42m -- but lots of that is tied up in real estate, the website, hardware, etc.

Among my friends we have the lowest income- around £70k between us.

Other people I know earn up to £320k a year.

People are always so generous with other people's money.
The day you will lose 50% of your income in tax you will change your mind. It's outrageous, and the reason why high earners don't stay on PAYE. So it's completely counter-productive anyway!

Higher rate tax payers are taxed 40% over £50k, then 45% over £150k. I am not personally a higher rate tax payer but H is and as a family he is the breadwinner (I earn £30k) and actually we both think tax should be higher. The idea that everyone who pays higher rate is anti tax is bollocks. I know loads who think it should be higher.

@wesowereonabreak

complain about how unfair it is to be taxed at a higher rater.

People are always so generous with other people's money.
The day you will lose 50% of your income in tax you will change your mind. It's outrageous, and the reason why high earners don't stay on PAYE. So it's completely counter-productive anyway!

I was a higher tax payer for over a decade. It isn’t outrageous at all. It’s not as if I wasn’t left with enough money for a very nice lifestyle. My objection wasn’t to the amount of tax I paid, it was to how it was spent.

MrsKoala

You conveniently miss out that you loose personal allowance over £125k...

If you want to pay more tax, no one is stopping you. You can make voluntary donations, why not doing so if you think tax rates should be higher?

Or is it just easier to expect "others" to have a higher tax rate...

@Aleric

Totally agree sofa and it's a point I'm always making on these threads, but you put it better than me because actually believing that women earning six figures are somehow squeezed in every other area of their lives is damaging for other women and our daughters. Yes it's true that some are working very long hours (just the same as men and people of both sexes earning less than six figures) but it's just not true for all jobs.

I'm not a lawyer or doctor or any kind of "profession", i work in a bog standard industry, 100% from home for the last 5 years. I get the kids up, to school, collect them, make dinner, all that jazz. I don't work over time, i never work weekends. I am not squeezed in the slightest. I earn £175k pa. Ludicrous amount, and not something i ever thought I'd earn, particularly because I'm from a background of poverty, but it happens to be what my job pays. There are plenty of men doing equivalent to my role at the place I work and you can be sure they are also earning at least that. Neither are they "squeezed". We just log on have our meetings make some decisions log off.

What do you do?

@TheSilence

This thread is pretty depressing to read if you’re on long term sickness benefits and know that you’ve got no hope of ever ‘making it’, despite being ambitious, driven, motivated, hard working etc. Life seems so unfair sometimes.

I agree :)

It's not just like that for us though, most people who are well enough to work but who are all of the above (ambitious, driven, motivated, hard-working) do not earn more than £40 or £50k and people who do earn more than £70k are not more motivated, ambitious or hardworking than those earning £30k (NHS nurses, teachers etc.).

@StayingHere

I believe them because threads about money attract people who want to tell everyone how much they've got. Middle and low earners aren't as excited about rushing onto the internet to disclose their average/low income.

I'll teii you about our low household income about 16k. I can tell you how we got here, how happy we are, how hard we worked to get here. Not sure people would be inspired though.

Well we can't all have high paying jobs can we otherwise who is going to empty your bin , wipe your arse of in hospital or in a home

Yes that’s so true @Inneedoflifeadvice , and the people in those roles are worth so much and so valued 💕

I just find it frustrating that people don’t realise that it’s not always lack of hard work or motivation that stops someone making money, it can sometimes be that you literally and physically can’t do it, because your body or mind isn’t able to. It’s very frustrating isn’t it.

I work in your field OP so obviously believe you, but I think the problem is that obviously some people will lie about earning X when they earn Y but that most people have a distorted reality of what the daily life of higher earner actually look like.

Yes many high-earner work extremely hard but most in my experience actually don’t work that hard at all because their money actually work for them after a certain point. Extremely wealthy people don’t actually need to put in the sweat as much as they need be willing to sign the checks and invest wisely to keep on making money and use that return on investment to continue to pay staff to whom they can delegate most of the work and household chore so they can enjoy their best life.

100k doesn’t lead to that type of lifestyle of course but people who seem to assume very rich people wouldn’t be on Mumsnet at 11am because they would be too busy make me laugh. Rich people can afford to do whatever the fuck they want and I can’t picture anyone more likely to post at 11am on a Monday.

It makes less sense for someone who is on 20k in an office job to be more likely to post in the middle of her working hours when they are more likely to need the job and work in a field where they might be replaced more easily if they are caught doing things they shouldn’t be doing than someone who is likely her own boss or working in a more senior role.

Because I have a similar path to you I would say I agree with you that the mindset can really alter how much opportunity people actually let pass by or seize so do find this thread fascinating as I do think some of this gets showcased here.

Personally I was never impressed by wealthy people based on their wealth and while I am grateful I am on the higher earner side thanks to them, I don’t personally find wealth impressive as such and personally don’t envy their lifestyle, enjoying it through them is nice but it has also made me appreciate the modest lifestyle I am naturally drawn to much more.

I believe it when people say they earn 100k but I don’t necessarily grasp why some people might want to be praised for it as many seem to on Mumsnet. I don’t think a paycheck is representative of how hard someone has worked and I actually think it says very little about someone and I am personally more inspired by people who earn very little but love their job and are willing to live on not much just so they can keep doing it than I am by the mere fact someone earns 6 figures.