to believe the Mumsnet High Earners?

[LigPatin]

Every time there's a thread about earnings, there's always multiple posters who claim that most people on the thread must be inflating or plain lying about their salaries.

Whilst I recognise that people lie, especially on anonymous forums, I find it quite sad that people prefer to dismiss these posts as lies rather than take inspiration/education from them (or just not care).

I come from a poor background - we never had enough money to the point that food and electricity use was rationed. We weren't on the streets, but that was a looming possibility. We lived (mostly) within the midlands.

I fell into nannying as a career (having dreamed of being a primary school teacher) and my first job was in Kensington. The housekeeper had been gossiping about the rent on the house we worked in - it was £3k a WEEK. This was 2012-ish. I remember wondering how on Earth anyone could afford paying £200k+ a year on rent alone, when - in my mind - earning just £50k was amazingly rich.

I remember walking through Kensington and Knightsbridge and Chelsea and seeing thousands and thousands and thousands of these houses, all huge and grand and all presumably commanding similar rent or sale value than the one I worked in. They were all clearly lived in and used.

Perhaps it was arrogance, or naivety, but I figured that if there were enough people who could afford to pay £1k, £2k, £5k+ a week on rent (or buy million pound houses), then there must be a lot of money out there to be earned, and I couldn't see any reason as to why I couldn't find a way to get a share of that money.

That's sort of how I feel about these earning threads - hundreds of people are posting about their high salaries and instead of scoffing that they must be sad-sacks who hang out on Mumsnet to lie about their lifestyles - I think it's inspiring and encouraging to see so many women out there making amazing money and securing their futures.

FWIW - I was 21 back in Kensington, amazed at the £3k a week rent. I'm coming up to 30 now and my average yearly income is about £120k. I remind myself every day of how lucky I am, and how 21 year old me would have been incredulous. Though I'm, of course, absolutely nowhere near being able to rent a £3k a week house

I agree OP. You’re right.

@Storey1964

Well I think she makes a brilliant point if you people on MM would open your nasty eyes. She’s maki g the point that if you work damn hard and make the right connections instead of plodding along in the same low paid job and use and realise every opportunity presented to you to further yourself then yes of course it’s possible to earn 150 k plus. It’s having the gumption to notice opportunities and having the intellect to go for it! One has to be fearless and progressive and not blinkered to understand capabilities and opportunities when they arise. The world is out there if you have the foresight and the ability to see it! So many of you will never see that it’s there for the taking. You feel comfort in the knowledge that people on massive salaries are few and those that speak of it are liars! She’s worked hard as have all successful people. Perhaps she’s on here and doesn’t have the children yet. Who knows? How is her telling her life story going to make everyone more believing? Her point is very clear- that it’s out there through hard work and recognising opportunities and having the drive and ambition and courage to go for it. She’s ambitious. It should be applauded not attacked in the way all of you are. You should be happy that a young woman is earning they sort of salary, not ridiculing her as though she’s showing off. She trying to inspire.

Well, who'd have thought it?

I also agree that you have more time and flexibility the higher you get, because you’re not actually doing the grunt work, you’re taking responsibility for what someone else has done.

I stopped reading after the first 6 replies, sorry to everyone who posted without trying to rip me to shreds.

Off the back of a couple of PMs received - I'm still a Nanny, I also run a small business on the side. My Nanny job pays me £90k ish, the rest is the business.
My highest paid Nanny job (this was 2 years ago) paid me £1500 net a week, which is a gross annual salary of £129,000.

For those who do not believe Nannies can earn this month, feel free to look at current job vacancies for similar roles:

www.dukeandduchess-int.com/jobs/
www.nannybutler.com/job-search/search-available-jobs/
www.englishnanny.org/vacancies/

I apologise for offending anyone by mentioning my salary. It absolutely was not intended to be boasting (stealthily or otherwise) - my point was that I came from an incredibly poor background and would have remained relatively low earning if I hadn't have realised that there was so much money out there to earn.
The fact that there were tens of thousands of enormously expensive properties in London showed me that tens of thousands of people earned enough to afford them - previously I thought that everyone except the incredibly privileged few earned less than £50k, certainly not that thousands of people could pay £3k a week in rent.

Off the back of that realisation, I started to look more into how people earned such excellent money, and how I could do it to.

I am not saying that I worked harder than other people

If hard work equalled wealth then Nurses would be millionaires and janitors would be riding around in Porches.

What I'm saying is that having an understand of what opportunities are out there, researching the fuck out of them to learn how to get at those opportunities - is going to mean that a person can make more informed choices, and get paid more.

Had I not seen how many people were earning six or seven figures, I'd have assumed it was an unobtainable goal - and I'd have become a teacher. (Note: There's NOTHING wrong with being a teacher, it's an amazingly worthy profession)

I'm sure there's plenty of people on this thread who mean well, or have posted nicer things - but I thing it does no harm to remember that there are real people behind these posts and some of the responses have been unnecessarily harsh. I recommend re-reading an OP, think whether you've misread the tone, before posting a scathing reply.

I did not post my salary to show off - had I not said that I was a high earner, I'd have hundreds of replies telling me I was naïve and didn't understand how to make money.

*earn this much, not month - sorry. Gotta proof-read. This is why I didn't pursue law!

Those arguing that the OP is inspiring: how? There are absolutely no details as to how she achieved her salary. We don't even know what she does. This is not an inspirational story.

And to those trotting out the patronising "it is there if you work for it and seize opportunities": Who is going to nurse and teach? And do people in these professions not work hard enough? Do they not aspire enough? Not to even open the whole can of worms that is privilege and disadvantage.

We don't all value the same things, pay across professions is grossly unfair, and there is nothing inspirational about the statement "I earn lots of money".

Also, I agree with those who've said high earners don't necessarily work long hours or harder. My partner earns 6 times what I earn in a bad year for him and I work longer hours. He just happens to work in a well-paid field.

Cross post. Quite a drip-feed, OP. You should have started with your story given it's integral to your point.

And I'm glad you've clarified that working hard and seizing opportunities is not synonymous with earning money.

I think it's you that needs to re-read your first post. It does read as a patronising brag.

Thanks for coming back to explain op, makes more sense now.

I was one of your first respondents. It was hardly 'tearing you to shreds'.

Your update makes your point much much more clearly, and I agree with you up to a point.

I could never earn that much as a nanny because I have the wrong background and accent.

I've gritted my teeth and scanned through a few pages; thank you to the nice replies.
Again, I apologise if I was cack-handed in my initial post, it really wasn't meant to be patronising or boastful.

To answer a couple of questions I've seen;

• What sacrifices have I made to get to this salary? Not too many for me, personally, but I think that's wildly subjective. The money in Nannying is - for the most part - abroad. This meant I had to travel a lot for the high earning jobs. I like travel and this was an adventure for me. If I was a home-body, it would have been a different experience. I saw a lot of my friends and family, and even kept a relationship going throughout, but it was obviously harder to socialise living in (say) Russia, when my friends, family and boyfriend all lived in the UK.

• You know you won't always earn like that as a Nanny/as you get older/when you have children? I know. That was probably one of the most pivotal realisations when I was younger - I needed to plan for the future, which meant saving and investing my money very very carefully. I can attest that when earning a grand a week in your 20s it is VERY tempting to blast it all on good times. I knew, however, that I didn't want to be a Nanny forever (I really don't enjoy it), so made sure I was investing in my long term plan. For me that's running a business. For someone else it may have been saving up and buying a small mortgage free house. For someone else it could have been investing it in shares. I made sure to save 70% of my salary every month.

• What financial decision benefited you the most? This isn't going to endear me to some people, but it is true - one of the best decisions I made financially was to not have children young (or at all, in my case). This doesn't mean having children ruins your financial chances, but it sure as hell makes it a lot harder and slower to work your way up. This decision was enormously helped by my career choice - working with children is an amazing contraceptive.

• You know that working hard doesn't necessarily make you money?! This is a very 2D view of the term "working hard". The phrase "work smart, not hard" sets my teeth on edge, but there's a good dose of truth in it. Of course just working hard doesn't make money, its about researching what's out there and working on where to direct that hard work for the biggest gain. For anyone who is genuinely interested in this I recommend the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and other such literature which can do an infinitely better job at explaining it than me.

@Thelnebriati

I could never earn that much as a nanny because I have the wrong background and accent.

What's your background? I would guess its not too different to mine.

Accent - yes, unfortunately accent goes a long way. I do know Nannies who have changed their accents to help with this (and they speak in their natural way outside work), but its a real shame they've had to do so. I can't deny it though, accent is a big part of it.

@ssd

Thanks for coming back to explain op, makes more sense now.

I was trying to keep my OP brief and I think I spent too long trying to dodge the other pitfalls of AIBU (I've been on Mumsnet a long time) that I fell into the "tone-trap" which made it read a lot worse than I intended.

I know a couple of executive assistants in hedge fund jobs who used to be nannies. They are on about 80k with a ~50% bonus on top. It’s pretty difficult work to get into though, you generally need to know someone to get a job on reception and then get noticed and move into EA work. It’s definitely not an option for the average nanny... even if the skill set can be similar 😂

I kind of saw the OPs point to a degree, that sometimes it does take seeing what other people have to realise that there are more options out there. However, while this could apply to a portion of society, theres going to be many people where dreaming big will never be more than a dream. Therefore can be disheartening to think that societies view of them is that they just need to work a little harder.

The ones who it may potentially be unobtainable to are those who come from such poverty that they can't afford to pay their bills or buy food, in that situation doing additional costly training courses wouldn't be possible, nor would travel expenses to get to and from training facilities or potentially more lucrative job interviews that are further afield. That and if they are already working all hours under the sun to make ends meat and looking after a family, they may be too time poor that getting further qualifications just isnt possible.

There are those with significant caring responsibilities, that it wouldn't be possible to manage a professional career while you have a child, parent or close relative who has complex round the clock care needs.

Or if you yourself has health conditions or learning difficulties. Or your mental health isnt stable enough to have a high responsibility job.

And of course, there are general societal issues that individuals have grown up perhaps dangerous and traumatic house holds, or in communities where thefts, drug use and a certain life style is the norm, breaking from that is extremely hard. I've worked with youth offenders and in mental health, with the upbringing and general life experiences they've had being a highly successful corporate six figure earner is a million miles away. Yes you always hear the odd inspirational story of someone breaking the mould, but for the vast majority it's a battle to just function in society 'normally'.

@CocktailOnion

From nanny -120k in 9 years , it's not terribly believable.

Why don't you think it's believable? It really is believable, not a stealth brag but in the last two years I've increased my salary by about 35k so nine years is enough to earn 120k. It's achievable

You've posted this is various forms quite a lot, haven't you op? I've read it numerous times, and there can't really be two of you.
I really do wonder why? The other variations were from quite a different angle, too.

Some accents can be modulated but not lost, I have a marked accent even after years of toning it down. No one who can afford a nanny would want me to pass on my accent to their kids.

The myth that social mobility is based on hard work creates a culture of blaming people who don't manage to climb the ladder.

@ProfessorPootle

I agree. It is possible with enormous amounts of hard work. My dh and I own companies worth in the region of £15m (£27m pre COVID) built from nothing, it’s taken 17 years of hard work, long hours (100+ per week), 7 days a week, paying ourselves absolute minimum just to keep a roof over our heads and pay bills while constantly reinvesting any profits back into the companies. No holidays or treats. I went to Uni, dh didn’t, he’d come to the UK with nothing, just a change of clothes and started working as a labourer on construction sites. He learnt a lot though and we started a construction company with just him, me doing the paperwork, a van, my credit card and my job which paid for our living expenses for first 4-5years while dh earnt nothing. Then when dc were born I went on mat leave and never went back, continued doing the paperwork for very little / no pay.

Pre COVID we were working much more normal hours, Saturday afternoons and Sundays off work. this last year we’ve had no household income at all as we’ve prioritised keeping company from going bankrupt, taken out massive loans, tons of debt but we’ve survived, just about. Were ready to sell the house last autumn but luckily didn’t need to in the end.

Things are looking up though, should hopefully get back to where we were in the next 2 years and be able to pay off the remortgage money we invested into the company. Dh says he wants to stop at 50 and sell up, he’s 42 now , I don’t know if he actually could sell everything, he wouldn’t know what to do with himself.

Inspiring, pleased that it all worked out and you didn't have to sell up.

I'll tell you why I don't believe a lot of the high earners on mn. If someone is earning so much, there life and work must be very full on, busy, coming back from work and if there's children, regardless of age of the children, they would be busy with that aspect of their life. How then do they have time to come on mn so frequently.
I am not a high earner, and days or even weeks will go by where I have not had a chance to come on to mn.

@HaveringWavering

We NEED women to say that they are in high level roles, in high paid roles and that's it's NORMAL.

And also to bust the myth that it is not achievable without making intolerable sacrifices such as being massively stressed, never seeing your kids or having no time to post on Mumsnet!

This! 100%

@GreyhoundG1rl

You've posted this is various forms quite a lot, haven't you op? I've read it numerous times, and there can't really be two of you. I really do wonder why? The other variations were from quite a different angle, too.

I haven't but I'd be fascinated to see the other post - I know a lot of nannies by this point, its not that uncommon.

@Mreggsworth

I kind of saw the OPs point to a degree, that sometimes it does take seeing what other people have to realise that there are more options out there. However, while this could apply to a portion of society, theres going to be many people where dreaming big will never be more than a dream. Therefore can be disheartening to think that societies view of them is that they just need to work a little harder.

The ones who it may potentially be unobtainable to are those who come from such poverty that they can't afford to pay their bills or buy food, in that situation doing additional costly training courses wouldn't be possible, nor would travel expenses to get to and from training facilities or potentially more lucrative job interviews that are further afield. That and if they are already working all hours under the sun to make ends meat and looking after a family, they may be too time poor that getting further qualifications just isnt possible.

There are those with significant caring responsibilities, that it wouldn't be possible to manage a professional career while you have a child, parent or close relative who has complex round the clock care needs.

Or if you yourself has health conditions or learning difficulties. Or your mental health isnt stable enough to have a high responsibility job.

And of course, there are general societal issues that individuals have grown up perhaps dangerous and traumatic house holds, or in communities where thefts, drug use and a certain life style is the norm, breaking from that is extremely hard. I've worked with youth offenders and in mental health, with the upbringing and general life experiences they've had being a highly successful corporate six figure earner is a million miles away. Yes you always hear the odd inspirational story of someone breaking the mould, but for the vast majority it's a battle to just function in society 'normally'.

The OP's point isn't that 'anyone can do it though'. The OP's point is that 'enough people have done it - so why are they disbelieved and/or attacked?' Also is it really true that it's a battle to survive for the 'vast majority' of people? Maybe 20/30% - but not 'most people'.

The reality is that a lot of the privileges of the 'advantaged' come from knowing how to look for opportunity - families full of professionals/tradespeople give their children good career advice based on inside experience.

Meanwhile outsiders are sold a lie that a 'degree opens doors to any profession' - people come out with a generic degree and no plan, apply to lots of admin jobs etc and find that every other applicant has a degree. Or that their peers while doing a completely unrelated degree have done research/work experience for a specific profession even before graduating and are poised for a career - because they had been TOLD to do so by parents!

We as a society need to take responsibility for helping direct people's paths - through schools, universities, whatever. We can't just wash our hands off people.

Again nobody is saying that EVERYONE can walk into a something, there will always be people with limited abilities due to life circumstances etc but we have a problem when the talent of a large number of people who are 'capable' of better is wasted because of a lack of support.

@deardia have you actually read the posts from people who are high earners explaining why and how they have the time? I have more time now than I had 5-10 years ago.

Bluntly the reason I also post is I have experienced certain personal difficulties. I don’t talk about them in RL for two reasons.
Firstly at work I talk very little about my personal circumstances/ personal life. Secondly none of my friends in RL have been through what I have (as a female).

Just because I’m a high earner, why does that preclude me needing Mnet any more than any other poster?

@Thelnebriati

Some accents can be modulated but not lost, I have a marked accent even after years of toning it down. No one who can afford a nanny would want me to pass on my accent to their kids.

The myth that social mobility is based on hard work creates a culture of blaming people who don't manage to climb the ladder.

It definitely is not - but also because our schools and higher educational institutions do fuck all to prepare people for a career.