AIBU politically - want to understand the left but unable to

[Linguistmum]

I know a lot of people whose view of the world is politically more left than right and I have always come along with them very well. Personally I cannot define myself as "left-wing" even though so many friends of mine are like that. I'm sure I have badly misunderstood something about what being a left-wing/liberal means. I seem to think that being liberal is about acting like that, not about honestly caring of everyone but of yourself. For me, political right is easier to understand: you basically want to succeed and everything that you do is based on optimizing the best outcome for you and your family - it can include helping others, but the goal is still to benefit from it. The political left, in turn, is confusing. Why do you want good for others, why to care about human rights, why care about minorities? And --- do you really care?
Some examples I am confused with:
-Most parents want their children to succeed. If you are politically left and liberal politically, how is it possible at the same time to 1) promote diversity and equality and 2) help yout own child succeed?

-Let's think you are a white, middle- or upper class woman and you have two lovely children. You support human rights and want more diversity in the workplace and elsewhere. You don't like social hiearches. Does that change your own actions - if your own child is applying for a job and there is another applicant of a poor background, do you think that other applicant should get the job and your child should wait for another chance?

-If competition is seen as negative, why do left-wing liberals still engage in sports where competition is the whole idea? Does it feel bad that your football team wins and the other one loses?

I know these examples might sound completely strange and out of this world. But I've been thinking of these from time to time.

If you are politically left and liberal, please explain how you see the world in these cases! Thank you in advance.

OP, being left wing, I believe in proper funding for public service like social care so in my vision of society, your old lady with Alzheimer’s wouldn’t be wandering around while you rush to your job interview. Well paid and fairly rewarded carers would have the resources and time to be looking after her properly in the first place. They wouldn’t be struggling on zero hours in a service that has been slashed to the bone and ends up run by private companies who only have an eye on profit and making their own shareholders more wealthy. So the left wing values have benefited everyone if all of so is set up to look after the vulnerable and level the playing field - that way you don’t have to make that difficult decision in the first place and the old lady lives a happier life too.

And the same for schools, OP. I wouldn’t worry about the decision of which school to send my children to if all schools were well funded and there weren’t areas of terrible social deprivation in society meaning that children come into school hungry, neglected, traumatised and so on. In a left wing society where I’ve paid more taxes maybe but that money has gone into funding public services rather than into a Tory donor’s already bulging pockets, all schools are pretty good and all children have the same opportunity to learn. So again, I don’t have to make that difficult moral decision about where to send my child to benefit them the most. Because everyone has a decent option available to them because all the options are fair.

OP - you're referencing individual behaviour not the role of the government.

In my mind, a left wing government would fund social care properly, to ensure that Alzheimer's sufferers were properly cared for. This would possibly be at the expense of higher earners/companies paying more tax. The individual wouldn't then be left to choose between being charitable or selfish.

It's about creating a level playing field were everyone has the same opportunity to succeed. You don't have to send your child to an erratic public school because, with proper funding, all children can be properly educated.

It is an utopian vision but I don't see why our leaders can't work towards it.

Ultimately, diversity and equality benefit a capitalist society. Diverse companies have been shown to experience greater profitability so even the most ardent capitalist should embrace it.

It’s about looking at a bigger picture.
If you do well in life, do you want to be surrounded by other people who are happy and healthy and also doing well? Do you want great public services, so you can visit communal parks, nip to a local library, get healthcare when you need it without worrying about the cost?

Or would you prefer to be a bit richer, yourself, but close your eyes to people suffering around you, fear crime from desperate people, have to buy all your own books because the nearest library is miles away, fear being ill or losing your job because there is no safety net? Spend lots of your money on putting up security, on insurance, on fear.

Even if you don’t care about others, it makes sense to have more happiness. Right wing policy is so tiring, the angst and punishment and fear of it. Left wing investment pays off down the line: house someone who becomes homeless and they can sort their life out and get back into society. Punish them, give them nothing, and then possibly spend far more down the line on healthcare as their health declines, on policing to “move them on”, on building more jails, in case they’re forced to turn to crime, on supporting shops who lose stock, the list goes on.

Be kind and share. It’s the first thing we learn as kids, so everyone gets a sweet, not one kid in the corner with 30 sweets, fearful of the others taking one.

OP you are imagining being left wing as having to solve all the worlds problems yourself and being completely selfless. That’s not how it works. I imagine it as being about prevention rather than fire-fighting. No one would have to send their kid to what you term an “erratic” state school if state schools got decent funding in the first place.

And I’ve just realised Zampa‘s already said that so great minds

Ohhhhh. Do you go to church OP?

@bp300

One year surplus in Thirteen years during the biggest economic boom in history is shocking.

Oh wow. Read a bit about economics.

Are peopke still peddling this rubbish about labours deficit?

I think a lot of left wing politics are idealistic and certainly, something we should strive for as a nation.

In reality? I think both Labour and Tory governments have shafted the working classes. I dont know if I am alone in feeling completely unrepresented by any political party.

However at least the Tories are not hypocritical about it. When I lived in London, I met so many ultra left wing pseudo socialists and there are plenty on MN. People banging on about societal good whilst sending their own kids to private school and employing accountants to avoid tax. Or advocating large scale migration and housing refugees in large numbers in impoverished Northern towns like Middlesbrough and Hull whilst they themselves live in fucking Richmond on Thames.

Fairness for all benefits everyone. Sexual equality helps men as well as women, e.g. if the DW is being paid fairly, the DH can work less hours. Racial equality helps everyone e.g. if everyone got a fair shake and there was genuine diversity at senior levels of organisations, data shows they will perform better and become more innovative. Better social mobility through removal of class barriers and a fairer more egalitarian education system would unlock so much potential and there would be les societal friction too.

Being greedy and selfish will just mean you’ll end up in a gilded cage surrounded by angry people outside of your gated community.

As a species, united we stand, divided we fall.

You could read The Spirit Level, that would help you understand OP.

Yabu

I dont know if I am alone in feeling completely unrepresented by any political party

I think you’ll find teenaged aren’t represented fairly either. Never anything for them in the manifestos.

@zampa I think in the ideal world l agree that it shouldn't be a choice between the old lady and job interview but in the actual world that we live in right now if this was the choice how many people would genuinely forfeit the job interview to help the old lady?

My father told me when I was little that Tories were people whose mothers never taught them to share. I'm starting to wonder whether he was right hmm

He wasn't. My late pil were both Tory councillors and did huge amounts for their community: this was openly acknowledged by their labour opposites. DH gives away 10pc of his income every year, and only didn't vote once Boris became leader cos he thinks Boris is a fool

Old school tories, like my mum, believed in self sufficiency but acknowledged we cant all be millionaires and we need people to do unskilled jobs.
These tories have been booted out of the 'party over the last few decades, people like Cameron, Hancock, Raab, Patel Johnson are all about helping themselves to wealth and power.

However, as a German politician said "Charity is the failure of the state"
I remember a swedish friend of mine on her first visit to the UK in a November, asked what is this British legion? we explained, with pride, "to help wounded ex service men and women"

She looked aghast "You mean the state sends people to fight their wars but then expects charity to pick up the pieces?"

She had a point.

OP - you (and a few others on this thread) need to do some more research to understand politics. It's not goodies vs baddies. And it's not "I support Labour/Conservative/SNP" in the same way as "I support Arsenal/Man City/Rangers".

In this country, the overwhelming majority support the NHS. Yet we also have a huge Conservative majority government.

Most of my friends make their voting choice each time based on their own opinions/circumstances. I've voted many times (I'm in my mid-50s) and over the years have voted for practically every party going.

Why do I care about other people? What a bizarre thing to ask! Sums up what I imagine someone with right wing politics asking.
I've always been raised to care about other people and for those less fortunate than me. Its sad to me that not everyone feels this way. Just as a side, I'm not saying I'm perfect, far far from it! But things like racism, homophobia, xenophobia, sectarianism, homelessness are really important to me. I'd rather see my child succeed in a world where things were fair and if that meant someone getting a job over them then, yes, because I believe in equal rights for everyone. I feel I'd be a really shitty person otherwise. During the 70s & 80s when Thatcher was in power my parents were in well paid jobs, so while they got richer the poor got poorer, they despised Thatcher even though they were much more financially better off because they knew other people were suffering because of her politics. This is all a subject that's very important to me and unfortunately I don't think I'm articulating myself as well as I'd like to. But I don't understand right wingers, well, I feel I kind of do but to me I think they're probably not particularly nice people.

@Limer I don't think those of us who have explained why we are left wing need to understand politics more.

The problem is with people like you and your friends who don't have any coherent political philosophy of your own and don't understand the fundamental beliefs which underpin the different political parties.

I bought my dd a brilliant Usborne book called Politics for Beginners when she started to get interested in current affairs. I think that a lot of adults would benefit from reading it (or something similar).

This is one of the main reasons that the Tories get voted in so often. People look at their own personal circumstances and short term interests instead of looking at what is good for society as a whole (which will also benefit them and their children in the long run).

So you basically get people voting for tax cuts and then wondering why the services that they need are not there or are inadequate.

@cariadlet couldn't agree with what you have said more.

Let's start by saying that it comes naturally to me to help others. To give up my seat if a flight is oversold, to donate money to charity before Christmas. I actually enjoy having a chat with old people spending time in a local mall - I know they are lonely and I feel like a little chat delights their day. I love helping tourists to find their way.

I cannot imagine thinking, "oh, there's an old person. I bet they are lonely, so lonely that a little chat from me will delight their day". Is English your first language OP? What country did you grow up in? Perhaps a lot of the weirdness of your post is a language/cultural differece.

I have to say op, that if you had set out to write a stereotype of the selfish, uncaring conservative, you couldn't have done a better job than that first post. I say that has someone who has mostly voted Conservative in the past, but is becoming more left leaning in their 50's.

I do not think conservative voters are all like you , thank God.

This looks like what it is, a poor attempt at a goady post.

But deep inside I still know that this is what I do when things are ok. When I have a surplus of resources. The wind changes very quickly: let's say I have to hurry to a job interview. On the way I see an old lady with Alzheimer's wandering around. Within a few seconds I have to decide which is more important: my job interview or helping that old lady. I want to help the old lady, but I want the job more. I rush further and feel bad, but this is what I do.

But not everybody does that. If I see someone who is at risk of harm, I'll intervene and call the job interview. I've done this in the past, they were happy to reschedule. If they had not been, they would not have been an organisation I wished to work in. I don't act differently whether I'm comfortable or on the bones of my arse broke - I can't change who I am. In the hypothetical case of the lady with Alzheimer's, this may be because I've had relatives with Alzheimer's so I know what it's like to worry about someone who has that illness. What changes for me with my circumstances is my ability to help - but I will always help to the best of my ability. And I am not some kind of saint, I can be as bitchy as anyone.

It does not mean that you don't care, but I believe every one of us cares a tiny bit of more of ourselves and our own family - and we end up in a world where everyone convinces they have a good will but the actions speak louder than words.

I think that's true and if I had enough food only to keep one child alive and it was a choice between my child and a stranger, I'd choose my child. But that does not mean that in our world of plenty we will step over other people's rights in order to get more for ourselves. I agree there are some left leaning people who are more words than actions but that does not mean that many people would not focus more on levelling the playing field and addressing injustices rather than getting their own family a heads-up. If you are a naturally selfish person you could consider that this actually is protective of yourself but there are also people who are genuinely moved by the plight of others - even if we're not related - and can't actually be happy, even if we have plenty, if others do not have the same.

if your own child is applying for a job and there is another applicant of a poor background, do you think that other applicant should get the job and your child should wait for another chance

OP, many middle class people don't understand this and how it could impact their own children (as they've probably had it too easy themselves).

Or they are hypocritical and would be the first ones to elbow others out of the way when it comes to advancing their own kids

You have a 'scarcity' worldview. This is the idea that if someone else gets something (eg. a home, a job etc.) then you or your family will lose out in some way

Of course there is scarcity. It's a sum zero game. Always. Those who think otherwise need to educate themselves.