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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU politically - want to understand the left but unable to

255 replies

Linguistmum · 15/04/2021 14:44

I know a lot of people whose view of the world is politically more left than right and I have always come along with them very well. Personally I cannot define myself as "left-wing" even though so many friends of mine are like that. I'm sure I have badly misunderstood something about what being a left-wing/liberal means. I seem to think that being liberal is about acting like that, not about honestly caring of everyone but of yourself. For me, political right is easier to understand: you basically want to succeed and everything that you do is based on optimizing the best outcome for you and your family - it can include helping others, but the goal is still to benefit from it. The political left, in turn, is confusing. Why do you want good for others, why to care about human rights, why care about minorities? And --- do you really care?
Some examples I am confused with:
-Most parents want their children to succeed. If you are politically left and liberal politically, how is it possible at the same time to 1) promote diversity and equality and 2) help yout own child succeed?

-Let's think you are a white, middle- or upper class woman and you have two lovely children. You support human rights and want more diversity in the workplace and elsewhere. You don't like social hiearches. Does that change your own actions - if your own child is applying for a job and there is another applicant of a poor background, do you think that other applicant should get the job and your child should wait for another chance?

-If competition is seen as negative, why do left-wing liberals still engage in sports where competition is the whole idea? Does it feel bad that your football team wins and the other one loses?

I know these examples might sound completely strange and out of this world. But I've been thinking of these from time to time.

If you are politically left and liberal, please explain how you see the world in these cases! Thank you in advance.

OP posts:
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IbrahimaRedTwo · 18/04/2021 16:05

was a cultural observation - I'm mixed various Asian (among other things) - you've just offended me by insinuating that I can't comment on my own culture

It was a silly and offensive cultural observation, and not at all true. You know as well as I do that not all asians are family orientated as not all asians are any one thing.
Youw own culture is not "all of asia" and I'm not insinuating anything, I'm being very clear in saying you are being offensive.

Stompythedinosaur · 18/04/2021 16:48

Well, in answer to your question about caring, yes I do really care. I find it easy to empathise and put myself in other people's situation. In the example the op gave about rushing to a job interview vs helping an older person with dementia whi was wandering, I'm really shocked that anyone who prioritise their own wellbeing to the extent they think it's more important to get the job they want that to prevent another human from being seriously hurt. In truth, when people make those sorts of choices, it makes me wonder whether something happened in their early life that stopped their empathy from developing normally (or if they have a neurodisability issue that effects this).

I think the idea that my desire for my own dc to be ok conflicts with my desire to do "left wing things" comes from a place of prejudice. My dc's lives will be richer for sharing their community with a diversity range of people. In the same way that feminism benefits both women and men, equality benefits everyone, not just the oppressed group.

SmokedDuck · 18/04/2021 18:19

@IbrahimaRedTwo

was a cultural observation - I'm mixed various Asian (among other things) - you've just offended me by insinuating that I can't comment on my own culture

It was a silly and offensive cultural observation, and not at all true. You know as well as I do that not all asians are family orientated as not all asians are any one thing.
Youw own culture is not "all of asia" and I'm not insinuating anything, I'm being very clear in saying you are being offensive.

If this were true you could not make any observation about any culture, as all cultures have individuals who do not share the overall cultural values.
Rahri · 19/04/2021 00:07

@JustAnotherPoster00

As usual right wingers call anyone on the left hypocritical if they dont choose a life of penury, sack cloth and ashes, most of them seem more than happy to call on the help of socialist institutions like the police, fire or health services

Nye Bevan said everything that needed to be said about Tory voters, and as for a PP's earlier assertion that capitalism has lifted people out of poverty, its plunged more people into destitution than its ever saved they just might not be on your doorstep so youre insulated from it.

This is exactly the type if inflammatory and factually inaccurate comment that causes problems.

There were hospitals, justices systems etc thousands of years before the concept of socialism was conceived.

And capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty all over the globe. The scientific advances in technology and medicine are what makes life today for those considered in the west to be in poverty more luxurious than the lives of great-grandparents who would have been considered very well-off compared to the rest of society at that time. And all over the world living standards have been improving overall.

Our problems are that this is patchy and people fall through the cracks, hence needing to structure society with appropriate mitigations for this in terms of redustribution to the vulnerable and ensuring the closest that we can get to equality of opportunity in life chances. That is where capitalism is failing. And socialism doesn't offer those solutions either sadly. These extremes are both damaging and rational, evidence-based policy making lies in the middle.

As some posters have mentioned, FPTP is damaging because it scews election results and ends up with polarised politics which focuses on point scoring and slogans rather than pragmatic, effective solutions to long-term problems. If you subscribe to this tribal way of thinking rather than an objective, rational assessment of things then you are part of the problem.

IbrahimaRedTwo · 19/04/2021 07:54

If this were true you could not make any observation about any culture, as all cultures have individuals who do not share the overall cultural values

It is true, and the point is that "asian" is not a culture. It's thousands of cultures. Calling Asian a culture is like calling "white" a culture. Asians are over 60% of the world population, and lumping them all in together is incredibly racist.

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