AIBU politically - want to understand the left but unable to

[Linguistmum]

I know a lot of people whose view of the world is politically more left than right and I have always come along with them very well. Personally I cannot define myself as "left-wing" even though so many friends of mine are like that. I'm sure I have badly misunderstood something about what being a left-wing/liberal means. I seem to think that being liberal is about acting like that, not about honestly caring of everyone but of yourself. For me, political right is easier to understand: you basically want to succeed and everything that you do is based on optimizing the best outcome for you and your family - it can include helping others, but the goal is still to benefit from it. The political left, in turn, is confusing. Why do you want good for others, why to care about human rights, why care about minorities? And --- do you really care?
Some examples I am confused with:
-Most parents want their children to succeed. If you are politically left and liberal politically, how is it possible at the same time to 1) promote diversity and equality and 2) help yout own child succeed?

-Let's think you are a white, middle- or upper class woman and you have two lovely children. You support human rights and want more diversity in the workplace and elsewhere. You don't like social hiearches. Does that change your own actions - if your own child is applying for a job and there is another applicant of a poor background, do you think that other applicant should get the job and your child should wait for another chance?

-If competition is seen as negative, why do left-wing liberals still engage in sports where competition is the whole idea? Does it feel bad that your football team wins and the other one loses?

I know these examples might sound completely strange and out of this world. But I've been thinking of these from time to time.

If you are politically left and liberal, please explain how you see the world in these cases! Thank you in advance.

I don't fully understand what you are asking, but:
I want everybody to have an equal chance, regardless of the family or circumstances they were born in.
What you do with your chances is up to you. But not everybody at the moment is equal in terms of life chances.

There is a website where, if you answer survey type questions, it tells you where your political affiliation should lie.

Real life is not as simple as the media portray.

We have a Tory government with a big majority - so they can't just have been voted in by ex public school boys.

Most people are a mix.

I am middle class, and joined the tory party with the express intention of voting against Boris Johnson being leader.

I don't believe the state is the answer to all problems.

However, I am also on the boards of two charities (for very unfashionable causes like drug users, and disabled sports), so it is not really the case that tories idealogically want whole sectors of society to die.. which the harder left can sometimes claim.

Left politics is generally more of a 'faith' and a 'cause' whereas rightward leaning politics just isn't like that.

Personally I would ban private education - and am glad to see and hear that a private education does not automatically waft you towards oxbridge any more.

I run two small businesses - but am horrified as much as the next one about how gig economy workers are treated.

The political left, in turn, is confusing. Why do you want good for others, why to care about human rights, why care about minorities?

You don't understand why people care about other people, you are confused by being for human rights? Is that you Priti?

The political left, in turn, is confusing. Why do you want good for others, why to care about human rights, why care about minorities? And --- do you really care?

If you don't understand why people care about human rights when it doesn't benefit them personally, you're being unrealistic in trying to understand the mindset of people who take human rights and other people's welfare as a basic requirement.

IMO, OP, unless this is a wind-up, I think you need to accept that some people are coming to politics from a completely different perspective from you. Which is kind of the point.

I would describe myself as left wing. Of course I want what is best for me and my family, but only against a context of a fair playing field. I don't want to 'win' if other people are mistreated to achieve it. I feel that well-funded public services, fairness and equality benefit everyone in my community and the whole of society. I have brought my children up to genuinely care about other people and I honestly cannot understand your viewpoint at all.

I don't think OP phrased it very well, but she makes a fair point that there are a LOT of 'liberals' out there who don't make any choices themselves that actually supports the values they claim to uphold. For example, I have friends who claimed aggressively in their twenties they'd send their child to the local school even if it was the worst sink school in the worst area of a big city, rather than support inequality. Of course, by the time they're mid-thirties and their children are school age, they've moved to a catchment area of a naice top-end state school, so they don't actually have to make that trade-off.

The fact OP you ask these questions shows you live not in a bubble, but in a bunker. What makes you think that your rights, or your children‘s won’t be taken off them?

CrazyNeighbour who or what might remove the op’s rights?

There’s a good book called ‘The Spirit Level’ which explains exactly why everyone benefits from a more equal society. (Economics not spirituality).

-Let's think you are a white, middle- or upper class woman and you have two lovely children

I stopped about there. Dear God... there really is no point at all in trying to explain. See if you can pick up a second hand copy of Marxism for Dummies on eBay.

Left-wingers don't think all competition is bad. Using your sports analogy: yes, I would engage in a competitive sport and enjoy winning fairly and squarely, but if the other team were at an unfair disadvantage for some reason, I would want it rectified even if it meant fewer wins for my team. Wouldn't you?

Would right-wingers think the opposite of this? Genuine question because I don't know what left-wingers and right-wingers think about specific issues.

I'd think a normal decent person would think the same as you've written.

Why do you want good for others, why to care about human rights, why care about minorities? And --- do you really care?

Err, yes? Why would I not care about minorities? I can’t get my head around the idea that people don’t care.

Does it genuinely not bother you that there are children born into circumstances where they will never have the opportunities your children do? Does that not upset you, because it certainly upsets me?

Do you honestly not care that people are discriminated against because of the colour of their skin, sexuality, sex, things they can’t change? If not, why not?

I think we starting at such opposing places that finding common understanding would be very difficult.

OP, I can barely understand what you’re talking about. Your post is a mess. As is your understanding of empathy, it seems.

Not really sure sport is political though?

(if we ignore Aparthied era South Africa - which I dimly recall from childhood being in the news).

You can believe in fair play or not whichever political view.

I think we all know Boris would cheat.
Keir Starmer would play fair, but I think you could have assumed Theresa May would have done as well. (not sure what sport though)

I agree with the sports analogy -

If we were in a running race and I was given a head start because I’m white and in front of me is a while male, but behind us is a disabled person and someone from a minority group, etc then that’s unfair and I wouldnt feel good about winning.

What we are looking for is a level playing field where the best candidate gets the best job regardless of their background.

Our children have to compete but it has to be fair, I e have to play to their strengths, my daughter will never be a painter, my son will never be a microbiologist! Bit we still need those jobs doing and we want the best to do them.

Where as the jobs for the boys Tory attitude is just that, jobs for their mates regardless of weather they can actually do the jobs or be good at the job.

I want my children to earn their place not be given it in a plate.

The way you have phrased your question is weird, OP.

I am left wing.

I care about other people and believe this is right, and I believe other people should care about me. This is what makes life worth living and world a good place to be. I don't think I could bring myself to get out of bed in the morning if I didn't believe it were possible.

You frame success (whatever that is) as a finite resource. Your success does not rely on the failure of other people. With your job analogy, I would like the right person who was the best fit to get the job, regardless of whether they were right/poor, black/white, male/female etc. The way social inequalities interact (and are being made worse by decades of a Tory government) means this is increasingly unlikely. Your analogy is helpful because it only works if you're white and middle class.

All these things are not really relevant to the left/right debate though. I know conservatives that genuinely share my beliefs, but they disagree with me about how we achieve them. The political right, in this country, generally believes that free market economics benefits all, and that the state should be small and not intervene in people's lives too much. This often comes with a side dish of seeing poverty as a personal failing at an individual level, and the belief that inequality is a good motivating force.

The left, generally, believe that the state should be large enough to support provide cradle to grave services like health and education, redistribute wealth through the tax system (because everyone benefits if there's less poverty, contrary to your standpoint) and step in to provide additional support to the most vulnerable, also funded by the tax system. ie, those with the broadest shoulders take the greatest load.

I'm a little bit fearful of the way you see the world. I can't imagine it makes for a very happy existance.

Success is not a finite resource.

The OP reads like a parody of right wing views, bit disturbing if it's actually meant sincerely.

Actually having to ask why people care about people other than themselves is something else.

I think we need to stop viewing people as just all left or all right. In my view, people are a barrel of contradictions and are far more complex than simple labels.

I have a friend who is very “left” in her views, all about re-shaping the capitalist system. However, she works in an industry that is very much not “left” (on the whole) and in an area of that industry that is driven by overt capitalism. She happily picks up her salary every month and doesn’t make the connection between the two.

I have another friend who is similar. Very left wing, all about environmental and social causes, and a feminist. However, on some nights out she occasionally takes recreational drugs - drugs that were possibly manufactured by organised criminals using slave labour. Again, doesn’t see the disconnect.

For the record, I’m not saying either of them are wrong, I’m just saying people are a mass of contradictions and don’t easily fit an homogenous “box”.

@BluebellsGreenbells but is the (shocking) snouts in the trough behaviour of a few ex Etonians supposed to be the view of all the Tory voting public as well?

I just don't buy that view, personally.

Left and Right are essentially measures of economics. As a massive oversimplification, people on the left tend to be in favour of state intervention and people on the right tend to be in favour of laissez-faire capitalism.

An added dimension is whether you are socially libertarian or socially authoritarian.
Being left wing and libertarian are often seen as going together but this isn't always so anymore than economic right wingers are necessarily socially Conservative (although that's currently often the case eg with Republican Christians in the US).

Ghandi is an example of someone who was left wing and libertarian, Milton Friedman was right wing and libertarian, Thatcher was right wing and authoritarian (but far less authoritarian than Hitler who was also right wing) and Stalin was left wing and authoritarian

Competitive sports are completely irrelevant to this, although it's the kind of issue - like whether to remove statues or to play Rule Brittania at the Last Night of the Proms - which is used as a divisive dog whistle by those who want to foment some kind of culture war.

Personally, I'm a left wing libertarian. I believe in public ownership of utilities, public transport and monopoly industries as I think these should be run for the benefit of all rather than for profit. But I do believe in private enterprise in other areas such as retail, manufacturing or hospitality. I believe in the Welfare State, NHS and public education (schools, colleges and universities). I think that these need to be accessible to all and not driven by the profit motive.

I'm socially liberal because I don't think that the state should interfere in people's private lives unless their actions cause harm to others. So I'm in favour of equal rights, against discrimination, support gay marriage, support the legalisation of drugs.

Why do you want good for others, why to care about human rights, why care about minorities?

Seriously? Because I'm not a raging selfish sociopath. I really hope you're just being goady. Like, really hope.

Very much agree with this below.

@giletrouge
I don't like or respond to competitiveness OP. I've got no interest in sports. I'd like - and I'm aware this is idealistic - to live in a world where somehow we valued everyone without the need for comparisons.
For instance, I paint pictures. I watch Sky Arts landscape artist and portrait artist because I like watching people paint and see what they manage to do, but the whole thing of pitting one artist against another annoys and even sometimes upsets me. The point of art is not to 'win' anything for me.
Re the job thing, in a fairer society everyone would have a decent job and a decent wage. It's because we don't have that society that people HAVE to compete the way they do. I would like to do what I can to make society a better place for all, certainly not just for those people I know or am connected to. When I watch the news if I see, for instance, a suffering child, I don't have to be related to to them to feel pain

www.politicalcompass.org/test

This is the test I mentioned earlier

I'm puzzled by your views. They seem confused and very simplistic,
The far right, the Tories are reknown for being totally about self.
How can you accept that. How can you NOT care about others?