AIBU politically - want to understand the left but unable to

[Linguistmum]

I know a lot of people whose view of the world is politically more left than right and I have always come along with them very well. Personally I cannot define myself as "left-wing" even though so many friends of mine are like that. I'm sure I have badly misunderstood something about what being a left-wing/liberal means. I seem to think that being liberal is about acting like that, not about honestly caring of everyone but of yourself. For me, political right is easier to understand: you basically want to succeed and everything that you do is based on optimizing the best outcome for you and your family - it can include helping others, but the goal is still to benefit from it. The political left, in turn, is confusing. Why do you want good for others, why to care about human rights, why care about minorities? And --- do you really care?
Some examples I am confused with:
-Most parents want their children to succeed. If you are politically left and liberal politically, how is it possible at the same time to 1) promote diversity and equality and 2) help yout own child succeed?

-Let's think you are a white, middle- or upper class woman and you have two lovely children. You support human rights and want more diversity in the workplace and elsewhere. You don't like social hiearches. Does that change your own actions - if your own child is applying for a job and there is another applicant of a poor background, do you think that other applicant should get the job and your child should wait for another chance?

-If competition is seen as negative, why do left-wing liberals still engage in sports where competition is the whole idea? Does it feel bad that your football team wins and the other one loses?

I know these examples might sound completely strange and out of this world. But I've been thinking of these from time to time.

If you are politically left and liberal, please explain how you see the world in these cases! Thank you in advance.

It depends on your values and how you act based on them I am struggling with the left because it feels like it has shifted far left with a hierarchical structure which simply doesn’t work. On a personal level - I think diversity is crucial to improving quality, market attraction, communication and everything else which makes products, companies, teams more successful which actually then feeds into the benefits the right holds dear- I just think it is best achieved in a different way. The left for me is based on raising everyone’s wellbeing, security and standard of living which includes mine rather than improving mine to the detriment of others. I actively compete in work based competition but I encourage as many people as I can to compete against me because if I win I want to have won against the best candidates (includes diversity) and if I lose I want to lose to the best candidate and learn from that experience.

Since you embrace the idea of selfishness and looking after yourself only, you can be a selfish leftie.

You care about others and what rights they have, because one day it could be you,your children,your mother etc that need those rights and it's a lot easier to get something that's already there than fight to get them,even more so get them established in law.

Not sure if the OP is going to come back but... from reading the wording of the post and some of the ideas / questions expressed therein, I’m wondering if she is from an Asian culture, possibly SE Asian. I have a good friend who is Malaysian and I’ve spent some time with her and her friends from Malaysia and China, and some of their cultural beliefs for right in here. These are not societies that believe in or pursue equality / equity. They are based on competition and achieving status through competitive achievement. They are baffled by the existence of the welfare state (we live in France where social / economic welfare is very generous).

Anyhoo, I could be completely off the mark.

@RunHobbitRun

Being left leaning politically means I value equity over equality.

This means some people appear to have a bigger helping hand, but in reality it's just making things fair across the board.

That applies to taxes, healthcare, access to education, access to jobs...pretty much most things across society.

Being truly competitive means you believe that everyone has the same chance to excel when you remove the built in obstacles like race, disability, sex and the other 6 protected characteristics that the UK currently recognise. If you start a race 100m in front of the next competitor you're only fooling yourself that there's a competition in any true sense.

It's rather disappointing that people still don't understand this basic concept of being a decent human being.

The current right led government don't believe in equity, equality or even competition. They are all about cronyism...that's not necessarily true for all conservatives, but definitely true for the current leaders which just perpetuates the idea that all Tories are evil.

I agree with this.

I work for the local authority, removing barriers to education. I recently did a social justice module in a qualification. Basically it is about acknowledging that we impact on each other. Eg My children have no SEND. But I wanted to live in a world where children have their needs met in school because that makes life better for all the children, including mine, not just because it makes life better for the individual with SEND whose needs are being met.
Same with youth work. We want politically active, engaged citizens, not disenfranchised young people with a grudge against society.
So, I work hard to support other people's DC. This doesn't mean I'm not also working as hard as I can with my own children, reading to them, encouraging them to learn and live well!

Do you drop litter? Do you barge in front of other people? Do you hold the door open for someone who is less mobile?

Do you think employers should be able to fire someone because they are gay, or pregnant, or develop a disability?

Are you in America?

If you're not, go and see life in a country where they don't have national standards of healthcare and education for all.

OP is never coming back to this one is she

"I am a person who is happy to see other children suffer as long as my own thrive - I don't understand why everyone is not like me"

Well the OP has been a revelation. I've struggled to understand the right and now I feel I've had an insight into some people on the right. (I'm aware that not all right wingers are selfish and greedy).

That's not to say that I wouldn't want success for myself and my family, but I would be uncomfortable if that success came at the cost of making the world a worse place for everyone else.

This.

If we can raise the general standards of everyone, every person in the country benefits. Because poverty leads to all sorts of issues that concerns us all. Crime included. If people have opportunities and feel secure and motivated, less crime and better quality of life for everyone.

It might help me answer if I could make head or tail of the OP.

I also think its wrong to equate Right WIng with rational self interest, and Left wing with either principle of irrationality/hypocrisy.
For example, I have conservative members of my family who voted for Brexit. Personally I voted Remain but, regardless of where you stand, I think a huge mistake of the Remain campaign was to assume the issue at stake was purely about rational economic choices/self-interest and to base their campaign entirely on that. My relatives acknowledged that in the short term at least leaving was likely to have some disadvantages/be bad for the economy, but they believed the principle of sovereignty was more important. They chose their own beliefs/values over pure self-interest. I know some people probably were fooled by the bus lies, but actually I think this was less of a factor than some have made out.
But ultimately, if someone makes a choice against their self interest that we agree with, they are basing their choice on principle. If they make a choice we disagree with they are being irrational and/or hyppocritical. I think this is true of people on the right and left.

@sadpapercourtesan

My dad did something similar with me when I grew up.

He sat me down and asked me the following:
If a boat of people became stuck on an island and you all needed food and while looking, you came across a tree full of fruit - would you
A). Not tell anyone and keep the tree and fruit a secret
B). Run back and tell all the survivors and share it

I picked answer b - my mother picked a

My mother came from a well to do 'conservative family'. My dad was Labour

Another thing my dad used to say was 'the conservatives are only interested in conserving a way of life - looking after their riches and way of life. Labour are their to support the poor and hard working.
I am that single mother with a child who has spent time at school, gaining an education and then training to gain her ideal job and I supported her in her own choices. Yes I put my child first in my life but I would never support her feeling she was 'entitled ' to a job because she is white - I would hope that the employer would choose the right candidate for the job - not anything else you mentioned.

The whole left/right thing is too simplistic to be honest.

Most people fall left and right depending on the issue.

You could be a free marketer who believes in unions .

My mind is genuinely blown that you don't understand why people care about other people. Or suspect they're lying?!

I try very hard to uphold my political views in everything I do. I don't fly abroad or buy any single use plastic I can avoid or buy fast fashion cos I want to do my bit for the planet. I implemented hiring techniques that reduce bias at my business because I want equal opportunities for everyone. I would prefer to pay higher taxes if it meant a better, more comprehensive welfare system and funding for things that will never affect me as a taxpayer, like schools.

I do plenty of things I'm not especially proud of, too, but I try and live with how I can improve the world around me in mind.

OP, the left does not have a monopoly on caring about others or diversity or inclusion. It just likes to think it does. And that is the problem with the left. The left likes to scream at the top of its lungs while everyone else does the heavy lifting. The left rarely achieves anything, and when it does, it usually crumbles like a house of cards because it is built on nothing but romanticism. In the real world, lefties are the most ruthless and corrupt. And this is socialism never works, I’m sure people will be along in a minute to tell me that socialism is never allowed to succeed - sure whatever.
Public good is done best when it is backed by liberal free market economics. Not a popular view, but you can’t eat good intentions. You need a society that produces stuff and innovates and competes in order to create the conditions which support public good. This is why you can have a private sector without public sector, you wouldn’t want to but it’s possible. But it just doesn’t work the other way around - ever.
In recent years, the left has tried to hijack ‘progressiveness’ and claim that you can only be progressive if you believe in student politics. That has backfired so badly, it’s unreal. Because the left is actually reduced to identity politics, in fighting, sneering at people, thinking everyone outside the echo chamber is stupid. The list goes on. In short the left is its own worst enemy. Fine as long as as it stays away from civil society.

I'm left wing. What drives the ideology for me is the concept of fairness. Of course I want my children to do well but not because they have an unfair advantage. That doesnt mean that I wouldnt take up any opportunity to give them a fair advantage. And I know it's just a quirk of fate that I'm lucky enough to have been born privileged. I would be happy to pay higher taxes and have a better healthcare system and a better education system because I believe 1. It's not fair on some children to have a good education and not others just because of the postcode they were born in and 2. I actually believe it's better for everyone, and the economy, if everyone receives a decent education. So I guess its selfish too in a way

For a start, I disagree with the notion that left/right is so easily divided along selfless/selfish lines. I know people who are politically to the right of me, who very much DO care about others and DO want to make the world a better place... they just have different opinions on how that is accomplished.

If you want a "selfish" reason for making things fairer and improving equality in society:

Is our society really at its best if people can't achieve their full potential?

For example if I need surgery, I want to know that the surgeon is excellent. I want to know that he/she got to that position by being one of the best in a large pool of candidates. If the only people who can become surgeons are those with wealthy parents, the right connections, the right accent, the right sex... then the standard will be lower. The same applies to lawyers, scientists, civil servants, teachers, and of course our leaders.

At many points in history, only some children were educated. There is a reason why, for example, most Victorian scientists were not only male, but were also wealthy ("gentlemen scientists"). Its not because everyone who isn't white, wealthy and male is lacking in intelligence. Being intelligent is not enough. You need the opportunities too.

How many scientific discoveries weren't made because of this? How many books went unwritten? How many amazing ideas for growing the economy and improving lives will never be thought of if opportunity is restricted to a few.

That's just one selfish reason - there are plenty more.

@sst1234

OP, the left does not have a monopoly on caring about others or diversity or inclusion. It just likes to think it does. And that is the problem with the left. The left likes to scream at the top of its lungs while everyone else does the heavy lifting. The left rarely achieves anything, and when it does, it usually crumbles like a house of cards because it is built on nothing but romanticism. In the real world, lefties are the most ruthless and corrupt. And this is socialism never works, I’m sure people will be along in a minute to tell me that socialism is never allowed to succeed - sure whatever. Public good is done best when it is backed by liberal free market economics. Not a popular view, but you can’t eat good intentions. You need a society that produces stuff and innovates and competes in order to create the conditions which support public good. This is why you can have a private sector without public sector, you wouldn’t want to but it’s possible. But it just doesn’t work the other way around - ever. In recent years, the left has tried to hijack ‘progressiveness’ and claim that you can only be progressive if you believe in student politics. That has backfired so badly, it’s unreal. Because the left is actually reduced to identity politics, in fighting, sneering at people, thinking everyone outside the echo chamber is stupid. The list goes on. In short the left is its own worst enemy. Fine as long as as it stays away from civil society.

I don’t have an eye roll big enough for this post.

Austerity has done well for the UK, has it?

No money to properly fund health and social care, but £150bn to throw at cronies for COVID-related ventures that have been disastrous? There’s plenty of money, but obviously won’t be spent on public services while trying to undermine public confidence in said services to justify privatisation.

You surely must have had your tongue firmly in your cheek when you talked about corruption on the left. We’ve never had a more corrupt, selfish, amoral government and that’s saying something.

The options aren’t neoliberalism or socialism. Even Corbyn’s Labour manifesto wasn’t socialism. It’s easy to see it that way when we are used to the Tories in their current form, but still.

How has the nationalism of utilities worked out for us all - not brilliant, eh? Sky high bills, industry collusion, where’s the benefit? Who’s benefitting from privatised healthcare or even hospital car parks? Not the patients and not the hospitals either.

Look at our railways compared to Europe. Several rail networks in this country have large percentages owned by national railways from Europe. Their own services are more efficient, more effective, and subsidised by the high costs of tickets in this country. They must be laughing all the way to the bank.

To add to my point above: there are selfish reasons for wanting the society (and economy) we live in to be at its best. Because I live in that society!
Maybe it is possible to be insulated from the effects of an unhealthy, divided, unhappy society. But being wealthy wouldn't be enough. You'd need to be super rich (like in the royalty/ oligarch/tech billionaire league). And even those people benefit from stability and improvements in general prosperity.

I would like to feel people going for a job have had equal opportunities in their lives.
I do genuinely care about other people, and even if you look at it from an entirely selfish pov, society as a whole would be better for it.

what a shame OP has not come back
I would genuinely like and insight into that way of thinking, seems I won't get one

16% of the voters on this thread find the OP not unreasonable. I would love to hear from some of them.

@ChristinaYang10

The political left, in turn, is confusing. Why do you want good for others, why to care about human rights, why care about minorities?

What do you mean why? Why do I care about other people? What an odd question.

I know. I was all on board for explaining But honestly I think if you're asking for as basic a concept as caring about others to be explained I'm not sure I can help. I'm just baffled.