To ask how you know if a special needs school is right for your DC?

[PlantYourAlans]

DS is 3.5 years old. Diagnosed with ASD in December. He is completely non verbal, but more frustratingly doesn’t seem to have basic levels of understanding, such as ‘get the cup’ etc. Not toilet trained and I can’t see it happening anytime soon, again not really talking related but more understanding.

He goes to formal school not this September but September 2022.

His private nursery agree that theirs isn’t really in his best interests and he’s benefit from the facilities offered by the local Special school. Of which is the only one for miles and miles, and caters for those with complex needs, including things like complex physical health conditions.

I’m just wondering how you know a special school is really right for them? Sometimes I wonder will DC not benefit more from being around just average, school children in a mainstream setting? Like the real world has most of and expects you to conform to? Or will a special school be better really? As it has amazing equipment and great stuff such as hydrotherapy and speech and language within the school setting.

I know you can’t legally exclude a child for not being toilet trained, but I can’t see how it would be pleasant for DS or his peers if he’s in nappies at school?

It does state on their website that they take children with autistic if it’s ‘very moderate to severe’. But they didn’t actually say where my DS is when he was diagnosed, and I was told they can’t say anymore and nobody will be told going forward, it’s just a blanket diagnosis of ASD.

We’re submitting evidence to a panel in May to gain a place. From what I’ve read online it can be difficult to get in with funding but his school and the local SEN support for them seem very positive that he will get a yes?

Thank you for any advice x

👋🏻 hello!

The difficulty is that there is no right or wrong answer.

My son was in mainstream and highly anxious - he still sees his friends from there. The whole environment wasn't working for him - class sizes, transitions, rules, sensory environment - it's not just a case of being around other kids and standard demands.

He moved to his special school at the start of year 4 primary and has made so much progress it's been incredible to see.

I have to say that a special education is truly that. Special, tailored and customized to your child. Of course there are difficulties but actually I wish all kids could have that level of customization (!)

My son struggled at mainstream and he is verbal, but autistic and very anxious. Mainstream school was a disaster for him, but he thrived in a specialist school. I wouldn't hesitate in pushing for a specialist school for your son.

There is no way of truly knowing. I imagine mainstream is tough if he has a limited understanding and non verbal.
Is there a mainstream with a unit he can transfer from special school.
The work with ASD DC is very focused and intense.
DS is in mainstream he's verbal and older he gets lots of support but he isn't learning much.

If he reimains completely non verbal without the ability to understand basic instructions then imo it would be cruel to send him to mainstream. How would he understand to go and put his coat on or obey class rules. Plus it's much easier to move from special to mainstream than the other way round.

Maybe look at it another way?

So you think your ds would benefit more from being in a mainstream school for your reasons or a school with others who have similar needs and who he make friendships with?

Also remember things like SALT etc are catered for in much more in depth at a special school and it's embedded far more into the curriculum.

If he uses a communication system like PEcs or makati on the staff and other pupils will be much more aware and able to teach him.

Have you had anyone talk to you about EHCPs? This replaced the statements from years ago. It's basically a multidisciplinary assessment of all you ds strengths and weaknesses, what he needs to learn, what sort of learning environment, sets targets and outcomes etc. It's an individual plan for the child to teach their full potential.

This is what you need to be approaching the LA over. He needs SALT and EP to assess him as a minimum.

Is there a special needs nursery you could get him into? If so I'd contact LA and ask about placement there and all this will happen within the setting.

Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you know and also if I'm overloading you!

Best place to start is looking at the SENDCoP. It'll be your bible throughout your sons education!

And don't be afraid to fight for what you want. He's your son. You know him best.

OP, I have a non verbal 10 year old girl who was diagnosed before she turned 3. She went to a mainstream nursery, specialist asd unit and the last few years to a special school. Please pm me as I would be happy to share my experience with you x

I work in mainstream primaries.

There are some children who just do not, can not cope in mainstream.

The schools I work in are both schools which celebrate all children, diversity, etc. They both have way higher than average sen children, and for most of them it's fine. They cope. Some way thrive. All are loved and exceptions are made where needed and tolerance shown.
But some children just can't cope. These are the ones who go to special schools.
It's really hard to get into these. Places are highly sought. Few are offered.
Trust me, if your child needs to be at one and you're offered one, you'll know.

The problem you have is that you haven't got a crystal ball but moving to mainstream from special school is easier. My friend had to fight for her son to go to a special school and he flourished in that environment. His 13th birthday party was a Paw Patrol party which to her further validated the decision she made all those years ago.

I have worked in both, more recently a special school.
One thing I would say is that staff in special needs school are specially trained and will have their own adapted curriculum and a huge emphasis on teaching communication.

I like what a PP put :"
I have to say that a special education is truly that. Special, tailored and customized to your child. Of course there are difficulties but actually I wish all kids could have that level of customization (!)"

I cant answer your question OP. What I can say is I've encountered several autistic children in mainstream who were basically being babysat and who were gaining very little from the experience. How is your ds with other children? Is he interested? Does he want to interact/play alongside them? Copy what they do? Because, imo, mainstream has little to offer a child with limited understanding and no interest in other children.

Your ds is young yet and will grow and develop, so maybe just something to bear in mind when you get to that point.

I can’t help but just wanted to offer my thoughts on the mainstream side of things.

I have a mostly non verbal not toilet trained child who is just finishing year 6 in mainstream school. He starts mainstream secondary this September.

I knew that was the right choice for him rather than an additional needs setting.

Follow your instincts, you’ll know what’s right.

I think you have to look at the individual schools for what they offer. No two specials are the same as are no two mainstreams. The attitude of the head and the senco make a big difference.
I lean towards going somewhere with the maximum salt and ot input early on.

I would also say that special schools (and mainstream schools) are not all the same, so when you're able to and have a look, meet the staff and get a feel for the schools. Start researching the things that are important to you. To start with everyone just wants their child to be happy, but as they get older you might want to ask about what communication methods they use, how they deal with challenging behaviour, how is the day structured (some are more therapy and play based, some are more academic). They can't tell you about the profiles of other pupils but definitely check it out when you visit. You'll get a feeling about whether your child would fit.
My son (Down Syndrome) did KS1 in mainstream, moved to special school in year 3, which was disastrous. Moved to a different special school for year 4 and he is absolutely thriving. It can be hard to change schools, the school will need to be named in the EHCP, but absolutely possible.
Best advice is to do lots of research about all the options.

Go visit the school.
It won't make him more disabled
It will cater to his needs and be used to kids with similar issues.
Going to mainstream won't make him less disabled. (But if they don't have the experience could make both you and him anxious)
Special is not the lesser option . It may be the best option.

@PlantYourAlans I've pm'd you. My youngest is the same age and has no understanding either. It's tough worrying about their future. I'm hoping that there will be some improvement in their development by September 22 but tbh it would need to be miraculous for us to consider mainstream

Ds asd non verbal special school after nursery all the way. A school with PECs experience is going to be way more useful than mainstream with only one or two makaton signers or no PECs trained teachers. But ask questions how are they going to communicate with your ds and how are going to teach him to communicate?

@MinnieKat

I can’t help but just wanted to offer my thoughts on the mainstream side of things.

I have a mostly non verbal not toilet trained child who is just finishing year 6 in mainstream school. He starts mainstream secondary this September.

I knew that was the right choice for him rather than an additional needs setting.

Follow your instincts, you’ll know what’s right.

What made you choose mainstream in the end?

secular I was about to ask the same. On balance there’s no practical way I can see mainstream school being at all appropriate for DS. But maybe I am missing something, and he could gain something else from mainstream that I’m not thinking of?

He’s currently at a private nursery, and they’re so lovely but clearly find him a challenge and he doesn’t fit with any of the activities etc. He has a key person but they struggle to do anything with him at all. He refuses to acknowledge other children at all. And he won’t engage in any ‘sensory’ activities set out

Although recently a very big pre schooler was reportedly taking notice of him By giving him a slap in the face for nicking his chips at teatime!

I was informed that DS didn’t blink but proceeds to try and steal kids food

OP nursery told me ds would like.more food in his lunchbox when he was doing the same!

I saw many children in mainstream schools that were not thriving. If they got places at the specialist school then they thrived. The staff were much better trained and experienced and the facilities made a huge difference.

Many children cope for the first few years and then really begin to struggle in mainstream schools. They become more and more excluded from classroom activities.

DS2 (ASD, diagnosed at 3) went to mainstream nursery (with 1:1), then an absolutely brilliant MLD primary school with autism base (it has been rated Outstanding at every inspection it has ever had) which worked so hard both with his communication and, when he had a burst of accelerated development after the age of around 8, to integrate him into local mainstream. By 14 he was mainstreaming full time and got GCSEs.
Don't listen to anyone who tells you, based on often very outdated assumption, that special schools are not "real" education. Visit schools, talk to your Ed Psych and to parents' support organisations.
With the greatest respect, I cannot see how any child who is non-verbal is getting much out of mainstream education beyond the parents being able to say he is mainstreamed. Not all special schools are for the very developmentally delayed, they vary in intake and emphasis.

I work 1:1 in mainstream with a Down's child. I work hard every day to provide a quality and enjoyable experience - educationally and socially - for that child.
However the child is in the wrong environment completely. I've told Management my opinion, but the special school decision has to come from the parents. And they are in denial about the reality of the situation.
OP, mainstream isn't always what's best. Staff have so little training, and it really is a case of 'muddling along'. Your child's school experience will only be as good as the 1:1 they're given, as we unfortunately do become the centre of everything, often without much involvement from the teacher. This is the reality. If you do decide on mainstream, ask all the right questions. Make sure that your child's time at the school adds up to more than just 'ticking the boxes'. Keep your expectations of the school high.
And bear in mind that there won't necessarily be the right staff training or resources to support your child.
Good luck.

DS3 went to a mainstream primary. Infants was fine as infant education is very "hands on". However as he moved further up the school, the gap between him and his peers kept widening and whereas at age 7 he had been working at age appropriate levels, by the time he was 11, it was a completely different story, and it was very clear he was struggling.

We could have sent him to the local secondary school, but he wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes there, so we chose to send him to another MS secondary school that had a fantastic (well deserved) reputation for SEN provision a few miles away. DS did really well there as he got virtually 1:1 support all the time, extra support for maths and English in small groups and they worked on his social skills. The SENCO and staff were lovely and very knowledgeable and experienced in working with children with autism.

Mainstream FE was a complete disaster, and largely a waste of time. DS made no progress at all in English or maths and he found the whole situation very stressful. The staff were clueless about autism and cared even less. They just expected DS to fit in with everyone else. During his final year , DS nearly had a nervous breakdown and his self esteem was at rock bottom.

He spent a year out of education while we fought for an EHC Plan and a place in a specialist college.

When he was 21, for the first time in his life, DS went into specialist education. It was absolutely fantastic and DS achieved more than we ever thought possible.