To ask how you know if a special needs school is right for your DC?

[PlantYourAlans]

DS is 3.5 years old. Diagnosed with ASD in December. He is completely non verbal, but more frustratingly doesn’t seem to have basic levels of understanding, such as ‘get the cup’ etc. Not toilet trained and I can’t see it happening anytime soon, again not really talking related but more understanding.

He goes to formal school not this September but September 2022.

His private nursery agree that theirs isn’t really in his best interests and he’s benefit from the facilities offered by the local Special school. Of which is the only one for miles and miles, and caters for those with complex needs, including things like complex physical health conditions.

I’m just wondering how you know a special school is really right for them? Sometimes I wonder will DC not benefit more from being around just average, school children in a mainstream setting? Like the real world has most of and expects you to conform to? Or will a special school be better really? As it has amazing equipment and great stuff such as hydrotherapy and speech and language within the school setting.

I know you can’t legally exclude a child for not being toilet trained, but I can’t see how it would be pleasant for DS or his peers if he’s in nappies at school?

It does state on their website that they take children with autistic if it’s ‘very moderate to severe’. But they didn’t actually say where my DS is when he was diagnosed, and I was told they can’t say anymore and nobody will be told going forward, it’s just a blanket diagnosis of ASD.

We’re submitting evidence to a panel in May to gain a place. From what I’ve read online it can be difficult to get in with funding but his school and the local SEN support for them seem very positive that he will get a yes?

Thank you for any advice x

[quote Sendsystemsucks]@Iamnotthe1 that is the LA relying on you as a school not insisting on adequate funding.

My DD'S school fought to ensure they were properly funded for her needs and provision.[/quote]
That was a parental EHCP undertaken when applying to the school where they took them to court to have it fully-funded to the highest possible level available for that child entering a mainstream school with that child's level of need (and won).

I agree that LAs always try to save as much money as possible but, as a school, we always have to fund the first £10k as a minimum for any child with an EHCP. This comes out of the normal school budget as does any other costs on top of the £10k and the funding from the EHCP.

@Iamnotthe1 court don't deal with funding and parents as it is between the LA and school, not the parents. It is also the first 6k that comes from school.

It used to be the first £6k but this has changed in the last couple of years. For us, for all of our current children with EHCPs, it's £10k now.

I can only say that our experience was in that particular case. It is the parents who took the LA to court and also secured the funding. We supported the application but were not involved in the funding agreement. They arranged, through the legal process, for some funding to go from the LA directly to a designated outside agency and for the funding to into school. The LA folded and gave them everything when they were ruled against.

I put my son in mainstream with one to one until he was age 6 , he liked it but was always the odd one out and didn't make friends like I hoped he would ( the gap in his ability was just too large) but it was right for him because he enjoyed the school experience. He moved to special school at 6 and hated it but it was the wrong school they expected him to be more able than he was.
We moved schools again and he thrived in that special school and I knew he would I felt the warmth from the staff as I looked around. He was free to be himself and learn in ways that interested him ,he finally belonged.
He's 16 now and his eyes still smile when he knows he's going to school x
The hardest part for us parents is admitting to ourselves that special education is needed but honestly the joy of seeing him happy and included still makes my eyes leak.

[quote Iamnotthe1]**@secular39* @Ellie56*

This isn't strictly true. An EHCP can stipulate the levels of support required, for example 18 hours per week 1:1 in Maths and English, but it doesn't completely fund it.

The majority of the money to fund any support identified in an EHCP comes from the existing school budget. The highest financial element we have ever had as a mainstream school was around £5,000 for a child with 1:1 support and multiple outside agencies involved. The costs for providing that support, and the outside support, were significantly higher.[/quote]
It doesn't matter where the money comes from. If an Section F in an EHCO says "The child requires weekly 1:1 ... 1hour Math tuition classes. The child will get it.

My son Is autistic and has learning disabilities. He would be exactly the same whether he was in a mainstream or SEN school, and wouldn't be influenced by other children. Can you imagine your child sitting down and writing or reading or doing a maths sum? My son wouldn't be able to. He can't follow the curriculum, so a mainstream school would be pointless. The school he goes to is amazing. Things are tailored for him, not the other way round. And he enjoys himself.

@secular39
It doesn't matter where the money comes from. If an Section F in an EHCO says "The child requires weekly 1:1 ... 1hour Math tuition classes. The child will get it.

Yes, I said that in my post but you said it would be a funded support so I was pointing that it isn't fully funded through the EHCP. The majority of the cost falls on the existing budget of the school. On an individual level, this doesn't matter but its a massive issue in education as a whole.

Because schools aren't receiving the funding that they need to offer this level of support, many are having to reallocate funds from other areas in order to meet their legal obligations. This has an impact. And all because the Government doesn't want to properly fund education in general or SEND support specifically. As I said in a previous post, it's shameful.

@Iamnotthe1 - i agres its a huge issue. What i have found is it has a big impact at the SEN support level in particular as it means there is no money for those without an ehcp (make sure you get one)
It also feeds into schools trying hard not to take a pupil with an ehcp on if they already have a few. I appreciate its a childs legal right to go, but some schools will fight incredibly hard to not take a child and its heartbreaking as a parent to have to fight.

Hi OP,

My son is 7 and in mainstream. At 3.5 he was only just starting to talk, had very limited understanding of language, wasn't toilet trained and was very self-enclosed. He went to school at 4 unable to answer the question 'what is your name?' I was fearful he would never speak, never be toilet trained. And fairly confident he would never read

By 6 he was a totally different kid. His language skills are still behind his peers but improving by the month. He chats, reads, can cope confidently with maths etc. (The challenges we are facing at the moment are around classroom noise and social relationships with peers, which are proving difficult as DS has no concept of privacy or personal space.)

It's really hard to gauge what their long term needs will be at this age. Your child may change dramatically in the next couple of years. So you may have to prepare yourself for trying a school and reviewing after a year or two if his needs change.

I would add, moving schools is always tricky. And SEND places are rarer than hens teeth. But I've heard it's easier to get a kid from mainstream into SEND than the other way around....

[quote MildredPuppy]@Iamnotthe1 - i agres its a huge issue. What i have found is it has a big impact at the SEN support level in particular as it means there is no money for those without an ehcp (make sure you get one)
It also feeds into schools trying hard not to take a pupil with an ehcp on if they already have a few. I appreciate its a childs legal right to go, but some schools will fight incredibly hard to not take a child and its heartbreaking as a parent to have to fight.[/quote]
I've seen both of these situations happen in a range of different settings.

I've worked with parents to fight to get their child accepted by local secondary schools, who have tried to claim they cannot meet the requirements of the EHCP. I've also seen secondary schools tell parents that they'll accept the child, and tell the authority they will, but only on the basis that the EHCP requirements are changed in the final primary school annual review. It's awful. Education should be one of the areas where money is always invested heavily - it's the future of the country.

We’re facing this dilemma at the moment.
My DD is in year 2 in mainstream. She has full-time 1-1 support but is finding it harder and harder to cope with the busyness and noise levels of the school, so she’s spending more and more time away from the class. She won’t go in the lunch hall or the playground and isn’t interacting at all with other children.

Even though she’s academically able to cope with a modified curriculum, we’re starting to think her sensory needs are so profound that she needs a calmer, quieter environment in order to learn, with staff trained in working with children with complex disabilities.

Her school has been amazing - really gone above and beyond to make it work for her - but we’re very aware that she’s not interacting with her peers at all. We hate the idea of her being completely isolated. She probably has more chance of forming genuine friendships in a specialist setting than in MS.

That’s my rather long-winded way of saying don’t rule out special school, and keep an open mind about possibly needing to switch at some point if you do opt for MS. We’re going to start looking at special schools again and are hoping we’ll get a sense of whether DD should move or stay put.

Look at both, and if you can, talk to other parents too.
I'm a TA in Special School.. the school my youngest attended in fact (he left 8 years ago..I'm still there !)
He was non verbal til he was 5, ASD, etc and while he went to a mainstream nursery with a 1:1 he stuck out even then.,so moved to Special School and we never looked back.
The issue is often that it's ok for reception year, and maybe even yr 1. But the gap grows rapidly as the NT children learn at an incredible pace.
Our special school focuses on the essentials in the early years.. toilet training, communication by whatever means (PECS, signing, Augamentative software) learning to feed themsleves if they have never done so (for those physically able to of course!)
We have mixed classes.. ASD, severe physical/cognitive disabilities . It's not perfect but in my current class of 7 year olds.. 9 in the class with 3 TAs plus teacher, two of our 'severe learning disability' chidlren are now reading, all but two are toilet trained and only one is completely non verbal.. they are making fantastic progress at their own pace.

We also havea fair few transfer from mainstream around yr 3 when it becomes clear that mainstream is too much for them.. or mainstream can't cope. One child had been kept in the corridor his whole school like!

My son learned to read, write, talks constantly and now as an adult has an actual job . He will never be independent but special ed set him up to succeed!

This thread has made me cry. Mostly because there are so many lovely families and school staff just doing their very best to ensure that their children are OK and in the best place possible.

You asked for advice. My DC has a severe spld - mainstream primary for a while; moved to a (independent) specialist school in Yr 5; excluded in Year 9 and now in a mainstream small independent school. I knew that specialist school wasnt right (I wanted another) - a family court didnt agree with me. But they are never accountable for their decisions. Ever.

But when my child attended the local mainstream state primary there were issues. We live in an academically selective area. The state schools cannot teach to that - but it affects their thinking. So Year 4/5 - tricky. Most children being tutored. (Not mine). Not all parents were supportive of some of the issues that children with SEN have - a few told their children not to play with mine. So this lovely idea that we have that our children will play with others and all will be OK doesnt really exist. I had a few close friends who were kind and then later as they had DC with issues really got the problems.

But not all special needs schools are the same. The one my DC previously attended had low expectations - on everything - behaviour and academics. So when students in Year 9 Maths are flouncing out of class how can my DC be expected to concentrate? (Because they struggle with concentration anyway). Anything extra was added for a few weeks then removed without any parental consultation (no EHCP). My DC's new school cope better with this expectation. DC is so much happier. They may not get any GCSE passes (which they do need to progress on their career path) but at last in their teens they like some lessons! #win

I work now in a state mainstream secondary school. I am not teaching or pastoral - the school is amazing with how it tries to support students with needs. But if you have 180 students in a year group, 30 per class - a child like yours will get lost. We are non-selective academically and have DC with needs - but by Year 9 we are supporting families to get as many as we can into more supportive provision. The LA I am in has a number of special needs school (but none for severe dyslexia) and pretty much the entry requirement is EHCP only.

So if you are now being offered that opportunity take it then you are a "supported" family in the system.

My DC was out of total education for an entire term and nobody gave a shit. He had 2 parents who cared so as far as education was concerned we would manage.

Sorry - horribly long post,x

DD1 was at mainstream preschool. They couldn't cope with her at all, really. They tried so hard, but she was a whirlwind. When she didn't join in, they let her be. They just let her do what she wanted, because they didn't know how to do anything else.

In her first year at special school, the head teacher told me that they'd spent 30 minutes with her, outside. It had been raining and she wouldn't come in for lunch. The head teacher patiently and calmly told her it was pizza time. She replied 'puddles!' and they spent 30 minutes working through the fact that it was still pizza time even though she really wanted the puddles. But that was because they had the staff and time to be able to do that.

I was a governor at her school and saw children transformed. In some classes they used the 'Attention Autism' programme. They used a magic bucket, which the teacher would investigate excitedly. It was amazing to see children drawn in to what the teacher was doing, whereas they'd normally be doing their own thing. I was drawn in

SALT never starts and ends at special school. It's just part of the day, all day. The same with OT. They have their targets and they work then into the activities they do. DD1 only got discrete SALT for cued articulation, as she struggles to make some speech sounds.

Special schools are all very different so you really need to visit (if you can) and start looking at what the school experience would be for your DC.

I do know (professionally) that many, many children with SEN and SN are just being effectively babysat in mainstream. They often never get the help they need and often have declining self esteem and self confidence as the gap widens between them and their peers.

Lougle We use the 'Attention Autosm' programme ..I love it too. It is sosimple really and yet that magic bucket really does get children who usually flit around, really looking, really listening..if only for a few minutes. And it's fun!

We are a year ahead and waiting to see if we can secure a place in a special needs school for reception.
It has been a worrying couple of years thinking about starting school but I am hopefully that it we can get a place via EHCP it will be a gateway to learning and belonging.
This thread has been so useful and I am so grateful to everyone who has shared their stories has made me feel less alone as with lockdown not had opportunity to meet parents in same position.

Good luck I have you get the opportunity to visit a few places

Lougle sorry to derail thread. Your still here! I recognised yon in the SN forums. I thought you left Mumsnet...

@secular39

Lougle sorry to derail thread. Your still here! I recognised yon in the SN forums. I thought you left Mumsnet...

Still here are you a namechanger? DD1 is 15 now. DD2 (13) was finally dx ASD at 11!

Lougle I've name changed. But I'm so happy to see they are old faces. Some of the old posters have left (it seems). Your boys have grown up so quick. Time goes by so fast.

All girls here it's lovely to be remembered. I should pop over to SN - I get lost in the pub thread, though

Lougle Sorry! Girls. Are your DD's in special schools or mainstream?

Hi op. My son was exactly the same as yours and I had the same thinking when deciding on a school.
In the end I decided on sen school. He had no understanding, non verbal, in nappies no sense of danger etc.
He is now 8 nearly 9. He still is non verbal but he has learnt to communicate with pecs which he wouldn't of in mainstream. He's still in nappies, but is understanding is loads better.
I really feel like I made the best choice.
I have some friends who sent there children to mainstream and have since transferred them to sen school as they was making no progress in mainstream and there 1-1 didn't cover break and lunch . The difference in them since they changed school is amazing.
I now work in a sen school and believe me the difference from mainstream is massive.
You also need to think can he access the curriculum in the correct way? As sen school will help adapt it to him and help with life skills etc

Bear in mind that your local special school. May also not be the best fit for him. Particularly if it's much more geared to children with physical disabilities. You might need to look further afield for a school more suited to his particular needs.

Look at all the available special needs schools - start with the list on your local councils send offer.
Sometimes on MN special schools are presented as wonderful places where your child will 'blossom'. Not all schools are the same - like mainstream schools some are much better than others. Sadly I speak from experience.