To ask how you know if a special needs school is right for your DC?

[PlantYourAlans]

DS is 3.5 years old. Diagnosed with ASD in December. He is completely non verbal, but more frustratingly doesn’t seem to have basic levels of understanding, such as ‘get the cup’ etc. Not toilet trained and I can’t see it happening anytime soon, again not really talking related but more understanding.

He goes to formal school not this September but September 2022.

His private nursery agree that theirs isn’t really in his best interests and he’s benefit from the facilities offered by the local Special school. Of which is the only one for miles and miles, and caters for those with complex needs, including things like complex physical health conditions.

I’m just wondering how you know a special school is really right for them? Sometimes I wonder will DC not benefit more from being around just average, school children in a mainstream setting? Like the real world has most of and expects you to conform to? Or will a special school be better really? As it has amazing equipment and great stuff such as hydrotherapy and speech and language within the school setting.

I know you can’t legally exclude a child for not being toilet trained, but I can’t see how it would be pleasant for DS or his peers if he’s in nappies at school?

It does state on their website that they take children with autistic if it’s ‘very moderate to severe’. But they didn’t actually say where my DS is when he was diagnosed, and I was told they can’t say anymore and nobody will be told going forward, it’s just a blanket diagnosis of ASD.

We’re submitting evidence to a panel in May to gain a place. From what I’ve read online it can be difficult to get in with funding but his school and the local SEN support for them seem very positive that he will get a yes?

Thank you for any advice x

It is so so hard. Our son is in Year 6. Mainstream primary with EHCP - he has a diagnosis of ASD. It has been good. He is thriving academically but I would say he has never fitted in and found his tribe. Therefore he does not have any 'friends' although the kids are nice and accepting of him... it's not the same as having friends. I was worried about Special schools having seen the Local ASD special schools... basically a glorified babysitting provision. I was very worried about him regressing in that environment and had heard from other parents that that happened. Looking back I am glad we chose Mainstream... it didn't feel like there was another choice. Units in Mainstream local schools also not great where we are. We have had various different Sencos in his school over the past 6 years. The current one is dreadful and can't wait to leave because of her.. others were really good. It is so hard, so feel your pain OP. I have cried a lot of tears over decision for secondary so really do understand. I wish you the best of luck whatever you decide. What I would say is that you would not believe the progress they do make.. your three year old non verbal not toilet trained DS will not always be like that, so try to see beyond that. A lot can change in a few months with a child with ASD.

My son went to a brilliant nursery - the only one who would take him/we would seriously consider. All the other nurseries were 'full' and my son was put on a waiting list (he never reached the top of the list). He went to mainstream primary from 5-11. The primary worked really hard for him, struggled with him and at one point we were asked to try our local special school - it was a disaster. He went back to mainstream and onto a secondary school with a specialist unit. It is only now at post sixteen that we have found a good specialist provider and he is thriving. Every provider is different - have a close look at all of them.

It is a really difficult decision. I just wanted to share my experience of working with many parents who saw their child in the first term of mainstream reception, thought that mainstream would always be the right place, and were then bitterly disappointed when in year 1 or 2 the gaps were too glaring to bridge. This happens a lot, because parents often would initially rather have mainstream, and it's cheaper to fund a mainstream place, and then there is an uphill battle later on with a very miserable child, disillusioned and disappointed parents, and exhausted school staff who are expected to do the impossible.

EHCP money does not cover a 1:1 member of staff and most of it gets used on SALT or OT.

Not true. If the EHC Needs assessment is carried out properly and the professionals specify in their reports that a child requires1:1 support it should be written in the EHC Plan and legally it should be provided.

The problem is a lot of parents are unaware of their rights and the law surrounding these, that they end up with EHCPs that are not worth the paper they are written on.

My son has gone to a special school since reception ,he's non verbal ,in year six and moving to a special high school in September,the thing is he's included in everything ,he works at his level ,he's finally just about toilet trained,mainstream would not have been right for him ,he would have been like a fish out of water .

@firefly123 - I just wanted to say that your situation seems very similar to ours. We have had about eight different SENCOS in two settings over the last 10 years - it really does make a huge difference. Our last SENCO was brilliant (the only one) and helped us secure the right post sixteen education. Sometimes in mainstream primaries it can feel that it becomes someone's 'turn' to be SENCO or it is added to an existing job role. OP remember you are the expert with regard to your sons needs - inform yourself and be ready to fight for him.

Honestly op, I think from what you say his needs would be better met inn special at the moment. The reason I say that is the speech and language needs. I can only speak from my own experience, but in my mainstream school it's the one thing we really struggle to deliver meaningful support with.

I feel children with significant SLCN need access to trained professionals. In our school, we have TAs and teachers who have been on maybe a day training course and are trying to deliver speech and language intervention to non verbal children. It doesn't work. It works with children with less significant needs, but not when the needs are so significant.

I'm a SENCo and when I have said that we can't meet a child's needs entering EYFS it has been for this reason. We still accept the child into school, but will try to support the parent getting a place at special.

We can manage toileting and most behaviour/social needs and learning needs on entry, but I really don't feel mainstream can offer the support in speech and language development.

That's just my personal viewpoint, you will need to approach your local mainstream schools to see what they can offer your child. But ask questions about the speech and language provision. Toileting support is easy for schools to put in place. Speech and language is really difficult.

Good luck op.

@eatsleepread

Then one day, as I was on my way to a meeting with a TA, I passed by my sons class, he was by the corner, playing with Playdoh whilst all the other kids were doing their work. I thought- Ohno, he is just being babysat.

Very sad, but sadly unsurprising to me!
Some parents with additional needs children in mainstream would be shocked, if a fly on the wall.

Yes, sadly that is the case. I've provided 1:1 support to many special needs children over the years in mainstream primaries, and very often it is the case that the child is left in the care of an untrained t.a. all day, mostly just "getting by."

Hi, I think your child might do better in the specialist school. Being around mainstream children isn't going to make him more mainstream. As others have said the specialist school will have things like SALT and OT which will help him.

As priority get that EHCP, that will give a clearer indication of the setting he needs.

I have one DD already in school we are battling to move, she can't cope with mainstream so she isn't learning anything educationally or socially. She is in a school which do want to do their best for her but are out of their depth.

My DS starts in September and already has his plan, I'm nervous for him but I think he will cope. He will be starting in nappies and with a 1-1.

Should add my DD in mainstream has good SALT and OT packages.

@OwlinaTree

Honestly op, I think from what you say his needs would be better met inn special at the moment. The reason I say that is the speech and language needs. I can only speak from my own experience, but in my mainstream school it's the one thing we really struggle to deliver meaningful support with.

I feel children with significant SLCN need access to trained professionals. In our school, we have TAs and teachers who have been on maybe a day training course and are trying to deliver speech and language intervention to non verbal children. It doesn't work. It works with children with less significant needs, but not when the needs are so significant.

I'm a SENCo and when I have said that we can't meet a child's needs entering EYFS it has been for this reason. We still accept the child into school, but will try to support the parent getting a place at special.

We can manage toileting and most behaviour/social needs and learning needs on entry, but I really don't feel mainstream can offer the support in speech and language development.

That's just my personal viewpoint, you will need to approach your local mainstream schools to see what they can offer your child. But ask questions about the speech and language provision. Toileting support is easy for schools to put in place. Speech and language is really difficult.

Good luck op.

I have to say I agree ,at my son's special school ,they have speech therapists based in school all the teachers and teaching assistants are trained in PECs , Sign along etc ,In non covid times they take the children out frequently in the mini bus to learn about shopping ,or churches ,mosques etc ,they have a soft play room ,and a multi sensory uroom ,his new high school has a hydro therapy pool ,it's all geared up to meet the needs of the child .

DS has a severely autistic child in his class. The child seems desperately unhappy and overwhelmed - he lashes out frequently and consequently the other children are afraid of him and avoid him as much as possible. In situations like this I cannot see who is benefitting from mainstream.

Totally agree @AliceBlueGown. A good Senco makes all the difference. Sadly the good ones often leave and a non-experienced one comes along and it is exhausting for parents always trying to build relationships. As @Sendsystemsucks says getting an EHCP is key. I have managed to secure EHCPs for both my children, but it has not been easy and I always feel physically sick at Annual Review time in case they try to take funding away.. I good friend once told me you are your child's best and only advocate. This is so true. We are always beating ourselves up as parents of children with additional needs. About the choices we make for our children. But you can only make the decision based on your own judgment. And if that turns out to not be right, you can always move him. Not ideal I know, but not impossible. Wishing you the best of luck.

My son did a year at mainstream and then was luckily offered a place at a special school (all thanks to the SENCO at the mainstream school, she was fab).
He is doing so much better at his new school, class sizes are smaller and different specialists visit to see the students.
He is also picked up and dropped off by the bus due to it being over 3 miles away, which he absolutely loves.

@Wannakisstheteacher

DS has a severely autistic child in his class. The child seems desperately unhappy and overwhelmed - he lashes out frequently and consequently the other children are afraid of him and avoid him as much as possible. In situations like this I cannot see who is benefitting from mainstream.

Totally see your point, but with the right help it can be a night & day situation. I've worked with an autistic child in mainstream who was extremely violent and disruptive. I used to go home with black and blue legs! I worked with him for two years, and he is now no longer in need of 1:1 and functioning really well in class. The lashing out is most often down to anxiety and feeling overwhelmed. Reduce the anxiety, and you can end up with a different child

@EmeraldShamrock

I passed by my sons class, he was by the corner, playing with Playdoh whilst all the other kids were doing their work. I thought- Ohno, he is just being babysat. That's basically what my DS does he has a a great sna and movement breaks but no actual learning work spends lots of time with Playdoh. He really enjoys Astir and the fun things he hates anything academic he has pda asd so won't attempt it.

Sorry? When it's most of the day he is playing with that? No no no. I came back an hour later and he was still in the same spot. My expectations for my son are high, he is capable of doing way more. I'm glad I pulled him out.

@Ellie56

EHCP money does not cover a 1:1 member of staff and most of it gets used on SALT or OT.

Not true. If the EHC Needs assessment is carried out properly and the professionals specify in their reports that a child requires1:1 support it should be written in the EHC Plan and legally it should be provided.

The problem is a lot of parents are unaware of their rights and the law surrounding these, that they end up with EHCPs that are not worth the paper they are written on.

Very true! You can get funding for 1:1 full time support if it is on the child's EHCP. We did! In fact, you can even get weekly or twice weekly 1:1 Speech and Language Therapy. In fact! You can also get the LA to fund additional tuition for your child. In fact! If NHS are unwilling to provide weekly therapy and it's states it's a need on the EHCP, some LA's have funded children to go to private clinics to receive therapy instead.

It a shame, as parents do have all the power but most do not know the law or have the time due to various of reasons. Plus it requires expensive specialist reports to identify the type of support, provision your child needs.

That comment about the ehcp funding is bonkers.

My DD receives 32.5 hours 1-1, an enhanced salt package and a good ot package. If it is in section F then it has to be provided and if school need more funding they need to chase the LA, not not provide it.

Yeah to add to my comment, the mainstream school my son was at (in reception) he had the full funding and a 1:1 full time. He started at the special school in year one.

As a teacher I can tell you that the majority of teachers have little to no understanding of SEND. I have watched SEN children struggle day in, day out in mainstream schools and the lack of any real understanding or provision for them is shocking. I have worked in a SEN school and if you have the option then I would send him there.

My son started off in mainstream but couldn't cope with sensory side of it. He is now at an ASC special school.
If your son has full time 1:1 on his plan then that is what he must get. How that is funded isn't your problem.

lockdown we asked questions about likely scenarios where our dc acted out in some way eg refusal to go into a particular room or violent meltdown for Ds1 or a tendency to go exploring or screech a lot for ds2. I was looking for an understanding of how these things could happen and strategies to prevent them and ameliorate them.

One special school I visited had the entire school in a noisy music lesson, together, when I visited. I commented that Ds1 could not cope with that situation, neither the number of people in the same room, nor the noise. The response was that they'd desensitise him to it . The school hall, where they all ate dinner, was so echoey that I wanted to put my hands over my own ears in there. There was no acknowledgement of sensory issues experienced by many people with autism, at all.

@secular39 @Ellie56

This isn't strictly true. An EHCP can stipulate the levels of support required, for example 18 hours per week 1:1 in Maths and English, but it doesn't completely fund it.

The majority of the money to fund any support identified in an EHCP comes from the existing school budget. The highest financial element we have ever had as a mainstream school was around £5,000 for a child with 1:1 support and multiple outside agencies involved. The costs for providing that support, and the outside support, were significantly higher.

@Iamnotthe1 that is the LA relying on you as a school not insisting on adequate funding.

My DD'S school fought to ensure they were properly funded for her needs and provision.