in thinking Anti war protesters should not have protested outside a memorial service today?

[mamazon]

went to an Armistace service today. my brother is in the sea cadets and so was marching but we go each year to pay our respects to both family members and those who we have never met but who have given us so much.

anyway i was so proud of DS. he asked lots of questions and he seemed to really take in why were there.

when we came out of teh church there were a group of about 20 anti war protestors, with plackards and banners.
they waited until the laying of wreaths before they started shouting and hollering.

I was utterly disgusted buy them. i was so angry i had tears in my eye. there were veterens there who were clearly upset by this display of ignorance.

I do not believe we shoudl still have troops in Iraq but today is not about War it is about respect for those who have given their lives in teh name of our country and all of us who live here.

im sorry but it really did make me so angry.

I don't normally swear but I just did, reading your post. People like them make me sick.

ooh no. Not On.
I do not agree with the war in Iraq but I still gave thought to the young folk fighting out there as well as the WW1/2 veteran during the 2 mins silence.
Very Bad Form Indeed.

I am very anti Iraq and a complete pacifist, but that angers me beyond belief

What do they think they are doing? Lobbying the dead? Shame on them.

my XDP was ex army and so i still know a few people who are out there now.
a young man has died over the weekend in Iraq.

i get quite annoyed by people who confuse remeberance sunday with supporting war. they are two very different things indeed.

YABU.

My grandfather in law was involved in the battle of arnhem. Millions of dutch people considet themselves to be eternally in his, and is regiment's debts. he has been involved in countless memorial services each november for decades. He is one of the people you claim to feel indebted to. But he is now so disillusioned with the treatment of war veterans from Iraq and Afganistan, he has this year, for the first time refused to buy a poppy or participate in any events. He is 90 years old, fiercely patriotic and benefits himself from teh British Legion.

To claim to 'remember' and yet to refuse to learn from past events is madness.

Not appropriate at all. There is a time and a place. Of course we all learn lessons, and there is no greater lesson that WW1, but protesting at such an occasion is downright rude and thoughtless. No excuse.

so you too confuse the death of serving members of our defence services to a political argument over whether we should be at war or not?

the death of someone who was conscripted into a war 60 years ago has no bearing on whether Mr blair should have joined Bush in a war against Iraq.
why should their sacrifice be tarnished by a political incompetance.

those who have died in modern day battles, falklands, the first gulf, ireland, sierra leone....etc etc they joined up to serv etheir country. they do not decide whether to go to war. they are esentialy pawns in a political game.

their bravery should be commended. anti war protesters have teh right to protest because of the people we were remembering today.

We can remember, Yummers - it's the politicians who don't always remember. YANBU at all - what they did today was obscene, and you have every right to be upset and angry. Fortunately the overwhelming majority of the UK know that it's an opportunity to say thank you to all the service men and women who give so much for us all.

rude and thoughtless? how very pedantic and short sighted these objections are!

lets engage in a little socratic arguing to prove my point...

why do we wear poppies?
to remember those who gave their lives and made sacrifices during wartime.

why did people give their lives and make sacrifices during wartime?
so that their loved ones and decendants might enjoy peace.

so why are people protesting outside a memorial service?
becasue our government has acted illegally and risked the peace and security of those same decendents and loved ones for no reason but greed and power.

so why is your grandfather in law, a war veteran now also refusing to wear a poppy and participate in memorial services at the age of nearly 90?
because he feels the british government has betrayed him and made a mockery of the entire event. him wearing a poppy and turnig up to remember the good friends he lost in ww2 legitimises the deaths of serving soldiers in iraq and afghanistan, and he refuses to be a part of this any more.

Mamazon, there IS no confusion to be made.

the two things are inextricably linked. You cannot separate them except semantically.

yummers: but your grandfather didn't go and shout at the people at the ceremony did he?

to disprupt an armistice day ceremony is to misunderstand it imo. what would these people prefer? that we forget all about the loss of life that war entails? that would lead to even more pointless and badly managed wars surely?

I don't believe in the Iraq war. Yes, it was a monumental mistake, yes, armed service personnel over there are as 'legitimate' as any other.

I still believe they shouldn't have protested today. Time and a place. Society has truly forgotten basic manners, sense of righteousness. There are plenty of other opportunities to protest. By doing so today and at such a time, they did little more than show their own lack of thought. That said, I still believe in what they are saying.

so he should protest to teh governemt. not families of war veterens who wish to pay respects to those they have loved and lost.

that is disgusting.

I am an anti war activist. Have been since the start of the war in afghanistan.

I also went to a service today, it was absolutely lovely, moving, silent in parts, rousing in parts, the veterans were so awe inspiring, one sat down and explained to ds all about his medals and what they were for. Was just ...well I cannot even describe how moved I was. I had tears in my eyes from the first hymn. thank god we had no shouting from anti warers or anyone else. it would have been awful.

My point is that yes, I am anti war, there is no way the gvt should have sent those men and women to die and to kill other innocent people. But that does not mean I have not the utmost respect for their sacrifice. THey don't choose the wars, they just have to fight in them.

I am so disgusted.

Can you tell me where you are? If it is the same branch as my stop the war branch, i will raise it at our next meeting as totally 100% out of order.

actually i think if there was an organised protest at no 10 today i think i would have gone and held a plackard.

i would have shouted about not allowing our veterens have died in vain. i would have chanted that they died for peace, not to allow us to send yet more young men to their death.

i would then have gone back to my great grandads picture and thanked him for being part of a war that has given me the right to attend such a protest.

there is a time and place for protests.

Mamazon he IS a blooming war veteran!

How is he harming either himself or his friends through not going through this pointless 'remembering' for the benefit of the gawping public? His private thoughts and recollections are poigniant and private, and he pays his respects to those who were so brave, each and every day he draws breath.

I agree with Senora, it is the fact that the protesters demonstrated at a completely inappropriate moment that is upsetting to many people.

If they disagree with the Iraq war (and many of us do) then they have the rest of the year to protest about it, wherever they want and however they want.

To interupt a memorial service is disrespectful. There were people there who have lost loved ones in a conflict, it would be like rubbing salt in their wounds to demonstrate today of all days.

yummers - he obviously isn't harming anyone. this thread isn't about people who refuse to participate in armistice day, but those who disrupt ceremonies.

Exactly Mamazon.

Yummers - if you/your grandad/anyone else wants to protest, then the ballot box is the place, not at a memorial service.

I don't see it as pointless, but if your grandad does, then thats private to him and he should remember it in the way it means most to him.

What I worry about most is my children remembering - there seems a lot of point in carrying on with Remberance Day to me in context of modern society which places so little value on the past, and in the fact that there will be so few of them left soon.

'the death of someone who was conscripted into a war 60 years ago has no bearing on whether Mr blair should have joined Bush in a war against Iraq.
why should their sacrifice be tarnished by a political incompetance.'

• quote of the day, or week, or whatever.

sums up what i think precisely.

fine, don't go along to the service if you disagree with it - of course, that is your own private perogative, but ruin the choice other people have made? very different. what these protesters did is the equivalent of dragging this grandfathe in law out of his home, forcing a poppy on to him and dragging him along to a service he disagrees with.

wrong wrong wrong

british people seem to have lost ability or will to protest about anything. this leads to such crass behaviour because nobody has any idea of how it could (should) be done.

er...fishie - that is a bit controvertial! when george bush visitted london in november 2003, we organised the biggest week day demonstation in british history.
we know how to protest.
we just don't do it as often as we should.