in thinking Anti war protesters should not have protested outside a memorial service today?

[mamazon]

went to an Armistace service today. my brother is in the sea cadets and so was marching but we go each year to pay our respects to both family members and those who we have never met but who have given us so much.

anyway i was so proud of DS. he asked lots of questions and he seemed to really take in why were there.

when we came out of teh church there were a group of about 20 anti war protestors, with plackards and banners.
they waited until the laying of wreaths before they started shouting and hollering.

I was utterly disgusted buy them. i was so angry i had tears in my eye. there were veterens there who were clearly upset by this display of ignorance.

I do not believe we shoudl still have troops in Iraq but today is not about War it is about respect for those who have given their lives in teh name of our country and all of us who live here.

im sorry but it really did make me so angry.

Freedom of speech obviously more important to some than the freedom to remember the dead in peace on one day a year.

And my last word on this is that the belief that one can do as one pleases and disregard what's right or appropriate isn't what my ancestors fought for. It's the root of what's crap in today's society.

by Yummers "oh god the NIMBYs on this thread drive me crazy"

when you start a post liek that it is of no surprise that you feel it is acceptable to offend and upset people.

your Grandfather agrees that he too would have been shocked and would have found it inapropriate for an anti war protest to take place at a memorial service. so he is agreeing with us all here.

and as for "relatively young women, who have never experienced war for themselves"

I lived on an army base for a short time, my XDP was in athe army and two of his friends were killed on duty. he has many more that were injured, one was paralysed.
i know a great number that are still serving and who are in iraq right now or have just returned.

i have spoken at lengths about what goes on out there and i feel i know pretty well what happens thank you.

You seem to be totaly incapable of seeing an alternative viewpoint and just wish to insult and offend people here.

Haven't read all yummer posts but mostly she seemed calm and thoughtful. I'm not sire what a Nimby is though.

I do believe free speech is the price you pay for democracy and that we have in place laws to inhibit behaviour that incite racial hatred etc.

'be so keen to curtail other peoples freedoms'

er, don't think so. There is quite a gap btwn lodging a post and saying I find it inappropriate and curtailing a freedom.

Kneejerk? Get real. Its not kneejerk to me, thanks. Actually I think I'm saying the same as your gd - it was 'inappropriate' but for Gawds sake I wouldn't have them stopped.

Sagger says it better than I could. The belief that you can do anything, everything in the name of freedom - has a lot to answer for.

Dros - im not sure of teh correct translation but i think NIMBY inferrs a lack of inteligence.

YUMMERS has repeatedly tried to incite posters by being very agressive in her posting manner.

everyone else here has posted and been happy to debate, Yummers hasn't debated at all...just repeated her POV over and over and even more abruptly each time

NIMBY - not in my backyard.

Not sure how it fits in here. Usually used in context of pple protesting re building services for mentally ill, ex offenders etc.

ahh i see.

wel were nto NIMBY we are NAMWMS surely?

I don't know ANYONE who is actually pro-war, who sits down and goes "Hey, that's a great idea, let's send hundreds of people to their deaths. What jolly fun that would be!"

At yesterday's Remembrance Service, part of the sermon was about being proud of what the armed forces do, their bravery and their commitment to their country. No-one in the army, air forces or navy had any choice about whether the British government went to war with Iraq or Afghanistan. And they could have put their papers in and left but most of them believe in the democratic system which allowed the people of this country to choose the government they did.

So if you don't believe in honouring their commitment, or the commitment of the hundreds and thousands who have already died, get off your backsides and do something about the government or the millions of apathetic idiots who don't bother to vote. Leave the men and women doing their job alone.

Yummers - You said "He was baffled that relatively young women, who have never experienced war for themselves could be so keen to curtail other people's freedoms because of a kneejerk reaction"

I have experienced war. I was in Iraq in 2003 for the Ground War and have also served in 3 different 'War Zones' that are still in conflict.

I served in these places to allow the people of these places the same freedoms we enjoy. Freedoms that were ensured by the great men and women who served in WWI and II. I go to Rememberance Day services to honour all the men and women that have given their lives - be it WWI or II, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Falklands et al.

Protesters should be free to protest. It is their right. But is it also their right to not have a shred of common decency in protesting at a (mostly) private service - where there were no politicians, councillors, Armed Forces hierarchy? In other words NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON who could have made a difference to the Governments policy for Iraq and Afghanistan. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON who could have called a halt to the ongoing conflicts.

I have met with Protesters, shared views with them, agreed with some of the points they make (and disagreed with many others) - but would NEVER agree that upsetting old men and women who were paying their respects is in any way appropriate, or helpful to their cause.

Save the protests for the people who CAN make a difference, the politicians, not just an easy target at a graveside (which is essentially what a cenotaph is - a graveside for those who do not have one)

It isn't a NIMBY thing - you have used that expresion in totally the wrong context. If I lived in Whitehall I would expect to see daily protests - and certinly would not complain. But no-one should be forced to witness a protest when they are paying their respects to the dead.

Show this to your grandfather - and see how he feels now.

Saggers..."And my last word on this is that the belief that one can do as one pleases and disregard what's right or appropriate isn't what my ancestors fought for. It's the root of what's crap in today's society." Agreed.

fabulous post MamaD.

If those protesters wanted to raise the awareness of the anti-war movement, shouldn't they have been outside 10 Downing Street? Most people who go to Remembrance Parades do so to remember family and friends who are no longer here.
Most people are against war, but at the moment, serving personnel don't have a choice. Even if they signed off now, they'd still be in for at least a year. They'd still have to go.

I've been following this thread and wondering whether or not I should comment and I've eventually decided to try and articulate how I feel about the issue.

My thoughts:

1 - Yes, it is right to protests about something that people clearly feel is wrong. However, a Remembrance Day parade is not the time or the place. Protest to the people who have the power to make the decisions - MPs, Parliament etc.

2 - I attended a Remembrance Day Parade (as I do every year) with my husband - a serving officer - was laying a wreath. I know many serving personnel who have doubts and worries about the war but they firmly believe that they have a job to do and that by doing that job to the best of their ability they will (hopefully) make things better.

3 - We've lost friends to this war (we were at a funeral only two weeks ago) and I don't think they died in vain - whether or not one agrees with the principle of going to war or not, surely one can see that these soldiers, sailors and airmen are making small differences to people's lives.

4 - We live in a very selfish society today, it's all "Me, me me! My rights are worth more than everyone else's rights!" so we should be proud of people who are prepared to relinquish rights that civilians take for granted in order to serve the public good. The Forces are not a political organisation - they simply believe that democracy, in the form of an elected government, is worth serving. If you want to change how a governement thinks and acts, protest to the government or vote and change them!

Good post, jcscot.

It's the old story, isn't it, that if you're going to complain, complain to the right person, as with everything in life. The people attending the Rememberance Day service are not the right people to complain to.