in thinking Anti war protesters should not have protested outside a memorial service today?

[mamazon]

went to an Armistace service today. my brother is in the sea cadets and so was marching but we go each year to pay our respects to both family members and those who we have never met but who have given us so much.

anyway i was so proud of DS. he asked lots of questions and he seemed to really take in why were there.

when we came out of teh church there were a group of about 20 anti war protestors, with plackards and banners.
they waited until the laying of wreaths before they started shouting and hollering.

I was utterly disgusted buy them. i was so angry i had tears in my eye. there were veterens there who were clearly upset by this display of ignorance.

I do not believe we shoudl still have troops in Iraq but today is not about War it is about respect for those who have given their lives in teh name of our country and all of us who live here.

im sorry but it really did make me so angry.

edam, i agree freedom in this country ain't what it used to be; the labour party is a testament to this. The founding fathers of socialism wouldn't recognise what their movement has become. I do think when it comes to the 11th hour of the 11th day etc the anti war protesters could have done something more imaginitive and not lost the respect of a lot of people at that particular service.

well, we will just have to agree to disagree, saggars!
remembering the dead on 11.11 is not a neutral activity unfortunately.

i can see your argument NN but i still do not feel it was an appropriate time to protest.

Agree,Mamazon.

I am sickened by Iraq/Afghanistan but there are men and women out there risking their lives.The horrors of war should never be forgotten,even if we do not agree with current political ideas.It was wholly inappropriate and distasteful for people to protest when many of the people present at that ceremony would have risked their lives and seen untold horror to ensure that we live in a society that enables us to have freedom of speech.

Why do people feel the need to say that they're anti-war? I would have thought that was bloody obvious to most of us. Do the sneering placard wavers actually believe that the rest of us are pro-war?

Mamazon, I would have been incandescent with rage if I'd come across that behaviour today. There are certain rules of society that you don't break. Some people within our society need to grow up and realize that freedom of speech carries with it responsibility.

Foolish, small-minded, arrogant little arseholes ...

When I was growing up in Ireland we only got BBC by about 1982. I remember seeing all the presenters wearing poppies and wondering what the hell it was all about. 'Look' I'd say ' there's another one'.

I didn't find out until I came to the UK what it was all about.

I think people should be allowed to pay tribute but so too should people be allowed to express their beliefs. I suspect this is why some people fought in the earlier wars.

I have two uncles, one who was in the RAF in WW2 and one who goes mad if his kids wore a poppy. You see members of his family were killed by the black and tans ( a hangover from WW1).

There are so many differnt views out there even in one family.

I disagree. No one has the right to protest at a remembrance service. It's totally inappropriate.

Disagree. Might not like it but they still have the right. If not wouldn't they be arrested?

Disgusting behaviour, there are ways of making your feelings known and that is not the way.

I went to a service today where the minister made the point about war causing so much misery for all concerned but still managed to remain respectful to all those who have served and still do serve. He talked about all the horrible situations people were put in but asked us to consider what our lives could be like now if our forces had not fought.

Thats the point exactly its not that we are pro war. It was to remember the men and woman who went to war, who stayed at home, who died and those who lived. There are perhaps battles that should not be fought, I think anti war protests at a memorial service is not a fight that they should have picked.

They have the right but common decency and sensitivity should come to the fore and esure that they have the sensitivity to realise that Rememberance is just that to remember those who fought to give them that right.

Esure?Calm down love!!Meant ENSURE!lol

its ok wrinkly - i sid that all the politicians were at the epitaph obviously i meant cenotaph.

If we listened to the anti war protestors instead of fighting for what we believe in, Hitler would be in charge of this country and any protestors would soon be sorted out by the SS.

It is not the dead soldiers who started the war it is the politicians, If they disagree with the war in Iraq they should be protesting to Tony Blair not to veterans and families remembering the brave soldiers who gave their lives so that these people were able to protest.

dros, it doesn't matter what your family's views are. Your perspective is obviously different than mine .. you being Irish, me being English, etc., but I cannot see how you think it is appropriate for protesters to stand outside a memorial service for anyone, black, white, Christian, Muslim, Hindu or anyone else, and heckle people who are either individually or collectively mourning their dead.

If it was anyone else but the British, it would be considered politically incorrect.

Of course they have the right - thats not the point. The point is its not the right time or place.

Today might be right, any other time is right, but not then. Really for me, its akin to protesting at a funeral.

Yes rememberance is managed by the media, but that doesn't make it less valid. I think some of the BBC stuff in the last few years has brought home the impact on ordinary people and actually serves to underline the mass, utter, awful WASTE as well as any shouting and banging.

And though you may not like them, the queen etc have a right to remember to. They have to do it in front of everyone (am not really a Royalist.......)

You'd have to be mad to be pro-war, but what the other poster said is right, do they really assume just cos we haven't a banner that we are in favour of the war??

I don't go to Memorial Services. I buy a poppy, I listen to the odd thing on TV or radio, I try to explain it to my kids. I want them to know about the waste of the Great War, but I also want them to know about the sacrifice made and respect the dead and their families. I can't for the life of me see where respect came in to those protesters today.

Yes NN - we will.

I think part of the issue here is that some people see Rememberance Day as some form of Government propaganda and therefore that it's OK to protest. The televised service may be just that. Others, well me anyway, see it as a time for individuals to remember other individuals, and be grateful for the sacrifices they made on our behalf. Not a time for protest - just a time for quiet appreciation.

Mamazon, absolutely disgusted. How dare anyone disturb a Rememberance Service in that way.

I would suggest that if there were some serving soldiers at that service the protesters probably spent most of last night at the accident unit having their placards removed from various orifices....... they certainly would have if they had been at the same service as me

I think the protesters chose the time and place because the state leaders were present. I am sure it upset those present but that is the nature often of protest.

I agree it was a very sensitive time and place to do it but I still think you have to acknowledge that they have a right to protest. I work opposite the cenetaph and the amount of protesters I see on a daily basis is surprising. Many don't reach the news. One day a open deck double decker bus drove past with about 40 topless women. I have no idea what they were protesting or promoting. I thought it may have been breast cancer but I don't know. I am sure many people were offended.

'dros, it doesn't matter what your family's views are. Your perspective is obviously different than mine .. you being Irish, me being English, etc'

Why would my perspective be different to yours because I am Irish. Members of my family have died in conflict. The Irish don't tend to have rememberance days or even celebrate independence. Not sure why that is but certainly when I was growing up there they didn't. Many Irish died in the war especially WW1 and less so in WW2. AS I said my uncle joined the RAF during WW2 and fought. He was young and looking for excitment. To this day he will not speak about the war as he saw so much. There were many like him too.

oh god the NIMBYs on this thread drive me crazy. 'you can protest, but not there! do it somewhere appropriate!'. you can't stop people from doing what they believe to be the right thing. that's not always the tasteful thing, or the conformist thing. in fact it usually isn't.

i told my grandfather in law all about this debate this afternoon and he was incensed by the reactionary attitude i described. He said that had he been at the memorial service he would have been shocked, and found it inappropriate, but not been appalled or disgusted. He was baffled that relatively young women, who have never experienced war for themselves could be so keen to curtail other people's freedoms because of a kneejerk reaction.He says he spent the war as an officer in the parachute regiment, doing what he believed to be the right thing, and is just thankful that there are people around today who are also prepared to follow their conscience, even if they get it badly wrong sometimes.

I'm confused Yummers. I think the general gist of the thread is that it was shocking and inappropriate, which I see your grandfather in law agrees with and that they 'got it badly wrong', which again your grandfather in law apparently agrees with.....?

Her Grandfather was not 'appalled and disgusted'. It seems to me that he may not agree with them but admires them for soing something htey believed it.

Am I right yummers?

But he agrees inappropriate yes?

Yummers I just realised how much heat you have been getting on this thread. I think you make a lot of sense. Point proven by how many people here are discussing the war in Iraq precisely because these protesters did something 'distasteful'.

Saggar if I understand Yummers correctly her grandad thinks it is more important to have freedom of speech than it is to be appropriate.

Appropriate behaviour is not always right.