Vulnerable adult being questioned during house survey?

[30julytoday]

Should I make a complaint?

My DH ad I selling our home to downsize. DH has mental health issues resulting in poor memory, suspiciousness, poor cognitive function. Not obviously apparent to strangers . He Is on anti psychotic meds

So buyers surveyors asked to come on day i had a short hospital appointment. They couldn’t give a time in advance. They said we should try to vacate property or restrict ourselves to a single room, open doors windows etc due to covid. Given this. I agreed to their visit on that day, knowing DH may be on his own depending on what time they turned up. I saw no issue with this given he just needed to let them in and then stay out of their way

So just found out, 2 days later, that after I left they asked my DH if he would help them answer some questions about the valuation. Turns out it wasn’t about the valuation. He felt they were interrogating him, and they were asking him loads about various structural work on the property and issues they’d found.
He struggles to remember stuff. Told me he said things to them that aren’t true. He got in a panic trying to find documents that he would never be able to remember where they are kept. Result is 2 days later I have a stressed and panicking husband who feels he was forced to divulge stuff but he can’t remember what about. I’m at a loss to know what was asked or what he told them. I know he said some things that are misleading in findings and report.

Given they did not say they would be asking us anything should I tell them they cannot use any of the information he told them given we don’t now know what DH said and the stress he was under, and that he lacks full mental capacity? If I’d known in advanced they’d need to ask questions I’d have told them they couldn’t come that day and it needed to be while I was there

We’ve never been asked questions at a survey before...does this even sound right? I’d have been very reserved over what I divulged to them in these circumstances even though we don’t have issues we are aware of in the house.

They were also apparently banging on patio doors to try to get information from him while he was sitting inside while they were doing the outside stuff. Then when they did wan5 to come in scared the living daylights out of DH by ringing the bell multiple times and pounding on the front door- he thought there was an emergency and became very panicked.

I’m also mad that after sending us a video of how we were expected to behave because of covid, they questioned my husband at length apparently in a closed unventilated room. There were 2 of them from different households. We haven’t seen our sons since last august and are due to see them in May once they can travel and stay in hotel. Last thing I want is for DH to get covid now with 3-4 weeks to go.

AIBU to complain?

It has everything to do with personal autonomy, trust and the crap understanding and responses to people with mental illness in our society.

Just want to say it's not about MH. My father had hidden disabilities. When I was booking somewhere I had to say he needs room or low floors or a lift if the room is on higher floors. Never have I had to explain why, just say he needs it. But we couldn't have expected them to know he needed lift if the room was on higher floor, or he couldn't have expected delivery guys to know he can't move 6 tons of coal so he had to say he needs it doing when booking.
Whether the issue is psychological or physical, people aren't mind readers.

Yes, being asked questions is normal if the householder is there.

My late husband had mental health problems at one point. In a situation like this, I would simply have said that my husband would be around, but isn't well so could they not disturb him. And yes, left my number in case of any problems.

Let me ask you all a question . How many of you have actually been subjected to multiple detailed questions during a survey on your home? Is this now a thing?

Yep. Had a survey recently and it was only the most basic type but they still wanted to know when the house was built, when the conservatory was added, any other works, what the walls were made of etc. We had also been told to vacate or stay in one part of the house for COVID reasons (I suspect if we were planning to vacate during the survey, they would have either asked if we could answer few questions before we left, or phoned to ask their questions). My understanding is that it's standard.

I agree with others that it's not reasonable to get upset with the surveyors for asking questions they would expect the homeowner to be able to answer when they have not been told of any vulnerabilities.

No you don’t have any grounds for complaint.

You should have told him to come at a more convenient time and being at home with your mentally unwell husband - it is incredibly unfair on your husband that you left him to deal with this on his own.

Sorry I’m going to retype my message here due to the fact my voice recognition typing totally messed up the above -

No you absolutely do not have any grounds for complaint. You should have told whoever arranged the survey that that particular time was not convenient as you were busy, and arranged it so that you could be at home at the same time as your husband. If he is mentally not a well man then it was completely unfair for you to leave him to deal with this on his own.

Ok, accept iabu but worth a call.

I have an ask for all of you commenting though to raise your awareness. Please do this for me and those with certain mental llnesses

The reason I do not disclose to people that he is “unwell” or anything else is due to one of the symptoms of his illness called Anasognosia here’s a link

www.healthline.com/health/anosognosia

Because of this he responds very badly to anyone believing he is ill at all. I would have to go behind his back, lie to him if I did this.

Please everyone read this link..you’ll then understand this is not like saying this in the case of hidden disability or because I’m embarrassed. He simply cannot comprehend he is ill and would believe I am lying to people. It’s not that he doesn’t want to believe, it is actually part of his disruption of the brain.

I have an ask for all of you commenting though to raise your awareness. Please do this for me and those with certain mental llnesses

The reason I do not disclose to people that he is “unwell” or anything else is due to one of the symptoms of his illness called Anasognosia

I feel like again you are expecting people to be psychic. I don't think it's reasonable to expect people on this board to suspect that might be the reason you wouldn't want disclose his vulnerability, especially as on the previous page you were just saying that it is for him to decide whether to disclose his medical condition as a point of principle.

FWIW, if I had a serious medical condition I would absolutely want my husband to disclose it (or at least let people know in a vague sense that I was vulnerable) where it was in my interests for him to do so.

It seems likely your DH’s reporting of what happened is not what actually happened and he has misinterpreted the tone of the questions and actions. You say he is suspicious and he sounds paranoid. Isn’t it more likely they went down their standard checklist and he just panicked and they didn’t interrogate him at all but just asked the normal questions about age of building/repairs/warranties? And that they knocked on the door, he didn’t answer so they knocked again, knowing he was in there but perhaps thinking he must have not heard, and he has blown that out of proportion to become them banging on the door and hammering on windows? Partly because it seemed scarier to him than it would to most people and partly because he is trying to make his own panic seem more reasonable? He sounds very unwell.

......and that he lacks full mental capacity
I think you need to be clear what you are saying. If he lacks mental capacity I hope you have Power of Attorney already because if you don't and a lawyer realises he lacks capacity this sale won't be proceeding for a very long time while you are appointed. Hopefully this is all sorted given what you have said in your OP about his capacity.
Like others, I can't see grounds to complain about asking a homeowner questions.

OP YABU. I hope your husband is OK though.

@30julytoday

Let me ask you all a question . How many of you have actually been subjected to multiple detailed questions during a survey on your home? Is this now a thing?

We have never experienced or expected that before

We had to provide dates of when we had the house rewired, when we installed gas heated, when we reroofed, what work we did ourselves vs hiring professionals etc... I would assume that's pretty standard?

Of course it's standard, There's only so much to be gleaned by staring at the actual structure itself without any further context.

I work in construction and there is absolutely no reason a surveyor would need to ask a homeowner anything. The point of a survey is that they go to see for themselves. Everything else such as the age of the house, any work done and subsequent building regs certificates, EPCs are all available online. Any other questions should be asked through the solicitor.

Surveyors will be bound by professional standards dictated by the RICS. They should be following strict covid rules. I would have a very strong word with your solicitor about this, it’s absolutely not on. Sorry if others have experienced lazy surveyors but going round to someone’s house and asking a bunch of questions can be done by anyone. A trained surveyor shouldn’t need to do this.

There's only so much to be gleaned by staring at the actual structure itself.

That is literally 100% what surveyors do. How else are surveyors meant to survey an empty property or a house with clueless tenants in?!

@ILovesPeanuts

......and that he lacks full mental capacity I think you need to be clear what you are saying. If he lacks mental capacity I hope you have Power of Attorney already because if you don't and a lawyer realises he lacks capacity this sale won't be proceeding for a very long time while you are appointed. Hopefully this is all sorted given what you have said in your OP about his capacity. Like others, I can't see grounds to complain about asking a homeowner questions.

Let me quote the mental health act to you as you appear to have some confusion about the use of the term mental capacity

“But just because a person has one of these health conditions does not necessarily mean they lack the capacity to make a specific decision.
Someone can lack capacity to make some decisions (for example, to decide on complex financial issues) but still have the capacity to make other decisions (for example, to decide what items to buy at the local shop).
The MCA says:
assume a person has the capacity to make a decision themselves, unless it's proved otherwise
wherever possible, help people to make their own decisions
do not treat a person as lacking the capacity to make a decision just because they make an unwise decision”
End of quote

I was actually very precise based on this mha definition in stating he lacks FULL mental capacity.
.- No lawyer will do any such thing without a diagnosis from a psychiatrist to state he is mentally incapacitated in terms of completely lacking the ability to make decisions for himself- that is actually an extremely high bar to cross as anyone who has tried to have someone sectioned will know.

And we’ve had POA for 25 years, before he was ill. Because it what’s sensible people do even without mental illness factored in.

But thanks anyway for your alarmist lecture

@Shrivelled

There's only so much to be gleaned by staring at the actual structure itself.

That is literally 100% what surveyors do. How else are surveyors meant to survey an empty property or a house with clueless tenants in?!

Then I've clearly met a lot of untrained ones

@Shrivelled

I work in construction and there is absolutely no reason a surveyor would need to ask a homeowner anything. The point of a survey is that they go to see for themselves. Everything else such as the age of the house, any work done and subsequent building regs certificates, EPCs are all available online. Any other questions should be asked through the solicitor.

Surveyors will be bound by professional standards dictated by the RICS. They should be following strict covid rules. I would have a very strong word with your solicitor about this, it’s absolutely not on. Sorry if others have experienced lazy surveyors but going round to someone’s house and asking a bunch of questions can be done by anyone. A trained surveyor shouldn’t need to do this.

Thank you. Exactly. This is how I expected it to be done. All the information we have around work done, previous extensions is in the deeds we have already sent to our solicitor

Shrivelled: might it have been that he had a trainee with him and they got carried away as a training exercise? That was only thing that occurred to me

Surely, certificates would only be available on line if they exist?

The only grounds for complaint is that they did not follow their own covid rules.

The mental ill health of your husband is irrelevant here because without disclosure they would not have known he was unwell and incapable of answering these questions. His lack of legal capacity would need to be disclosed to rely on that in any situation. Many people have tried to explain this to you.

I understand your anxiety at not knowing what he has told them and whether that may have a detrimental effect on the results of the survey but that anxiety is yours to deal with not the surveyors. I think perhaps guilt has a part to play here too.

Quoting MHA and giving definitions of your husbands symptoms is totally irrelevant here because without disclosure to them, it’s irrelevant to what happened with the surveyor. I know it’s not your place to disclose but it’s not their place to know something that they haven’t been told either.

Your anxiety is perfectly natural given the circumstances but getting angry at people here for trying to point out that without disclosure nobody would know isn’t resolving your issue, it’s extending the blame to others for something that has nothing to do with them, who are only answering your question. I’m sorry you don’t like their answers OP

@Shrivelled

I work in construction and there is absolutely no reason a surveyor would need to ask a homeowner anything. The point of a survey is that they go to see for themselves. Everything else such as the age of the house, any work done and subsequent building regs certificates, EPCs are all available online. Any other questions should be asked through the solicitor.

Surveyors will be bound by professional standards dictated by the RICS. They should be following strict covid rules. I would have a very strong word with your solicitor about this, it’s absolutely not on. Sorry if others have experienced lazy surveyors but going round to someone’s house and asking a bunch of questions can be done by anyone. A trained surveyor shouldn’t need to do this.

Having worked for a very well qualified and experienced surveyor who did buyer’s surveys often, this is complete bullshit. Of course surveyors will ask questions about the house if the owner is there if they need to.

I feel for you @30julytoday as someone who has family members with serious mental health issues who I love and support.

I also think YABU but wanted to give a qualified response.

I think you are understandably close to these issues as someone who cares deeply for your DH. However your way of caring (by ensuring he has the dignity not have his medical information shared) is great, but you're also expecting people to be mind readers in all scenarios.

What did you expect to happen in a situation where it sounded like you needed to be there?

You are going straight to the nuclear option of saying you don’t need to disclose medical details, and you’re right, you don’t.

But there is a middle ground, and you can’t expect others to know he is ill and treat him accordingly without informing them.

They did not interrogate your partner, they asked him questions as the homeowner—as is standard practice—and his perception warped it so he believes he was interrogated because he panicked and couldn’t answer.

They were not banging and hammering on doors and windows. They’ll have known he was inside and/or been able to see him, needed to get in, and knocked until he answered. Again, his perception is warping the situation because he didn’t let them in.

You need to take responsibility for the fact that you let this happen, and you can’t blame the for treating an adult homeowner like an adult homeowner.

You don't know what power of attorney means. It's literally not possible to get it before the onset of mental incapacity

YABU
You knew they were going to be in your house with your vulnerable husband. I would have assumed that a surveyor would want to ask a couple of questions and if I was the surveyor I'd expect the adult left in the house with me to be able to answer the questions. I'm quite perplexed as to why you'd leave strangers in your house with any adult who has problems with mental health and suspiciouness, surely that's a recipe for disaster.

The repeated ringing and knocking seems very strange. Are you sure that's an accurate account of what happened or could your husband have become panicked and stressed and exaggerated what really happened in the moment due to his stress.

It sounds like you're regretting leaving him and feeling guilty about it. Just take it as a lesson and use this as a learning experience.
I would try to call the surveyor or at least your solicitor to set the record straight, I would specify his health problems, otherwise any false information he has provided could be used against you in the future, for example if he's said certain regs are in place or testing has been done and this isn't true.