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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I wanted Prince Philip to make it to 100 to get a letter from The Queen

325 replies

JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil · 09/04/2021 12:12

Losing your DH after such a long marriage must feel like losing an organ. RIP.

OP posts:
Mittens030869 · 09/04/2021 22:54

I don’t think she can be blamed for the actions of her daughters. The family was separated by then. And Philip obviously fought against the Nazis not for them.

Coving · 09/04/2021 23:05

@Mittens030869

I don’t think she can be blamed for the actions of her daughters. The family was separated by then. And Philip obviously fought against the Nazis not for them.
No, I don’t think so either. But neither do I think we can conclude that a son who spent very little of his life in her vicinity can be concluded to be an unlikely racist purely because his mother hid a family of Jewish refugees, which is an argument that keeps being made.
JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil · 09/04/2021 23:05

I obviously don’t speak for all people of colour but to put my OP into context I’m a mixed raced woman with an elderly black mother and both DM and I were sad at the news today. Yes he said some stupid stuff which was racist but neither DM or I think he was an actual racist.

I’ve experienced racism so I’m not one of those people of colour who try to ingratiate myself with white people by claiming racism doesn’t exist. However, I think his sometimes offensive comments were jokes which missed the mark as opposed to coming from a place of true malice.

Even when they are trying their best to try and not appear racist, you can often still tell if someone’s racist, there’s an unconscious vibe almost like a poker players ‘tell’. He didn’t have it.

My DH is white and his DF is 90. The first time he visited the area we live he made some comment about there hardly being any white people around (there were loads of white people but to him more than 5 non white people would be very noticeable because he comes from a 100% white are and therefore the non white people were ‘loads’/‘majority’) He doesn’t have a racist bone in him (SIL is Asian) and didn’t mean anything bad by it but he’s not very worldly and just noted the difference between where we and he lived. A bystander who didn’t know him as well me would probably think he was racist.

I obviously didn’t know Prince Philip well but he’s a very well travelled man and there is much affection for him and the Queen across the commonwealth from what my DM says (who’s from the Caribbean).

OP posts:
Coving · 09/04/2021 23:25

I don’t think anything PP said came from ‘a place of malice’, I think it was the kind of casual bigotry characteristic of an immensely privileged man who still thought in entirely colonial terms — the ‘slitty -eyed’ comment, telling the president of Nigeria that his traditional robe made him look like he was ready for bed, asking Australian Aborigines whether they still threw spears at one another etc etc were probably intended as ‘genial banter’, but of an unpleasantly revealing sort.

Wearywithteens · 10/04/2021 01:22

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Lampzade · 10/04/2021 01:35

@cariadlet

It does speak volumes. It shows how gracious and statesman like they are. The statement says more about them than it does about him.
This
IndecentCakes · 10/04/2021 01:39

What a shame for the Queen.

Re: the obituaries and sombre clothing, though, these things are always prepared and ready to go. There was almost certainly an obituary ready for Boris Johnson, for example, strange as it seems!

Wearywithteens · 10/04/2021 01:48

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Heyduggi · 10/04/2021 01:48

Such sad news, a truly remarkable man and life.

I feel very sorry for the Queen tonight Sad

00100001 · 10/04/2021 07:51

@VladmirsPoutine

Ah, as night follows day the Meghan bashing is in full swing.
Why is it, we're allowed to criticise Philip, but not Meghan?
Lweji · 10/04/2021 07:59

Godwin's Law is that basically any internet argument will inevitably descend into someone comparing somebody they disagree with to Hitler or the Nazis.

That wasn't what happened on this thread.

Because that's not Godwin's Law. The comparison isn't of the person we disagree with. It's a comparison with Hitler or the Nazis, in general. And that certainly happened in this thread, when someone made a question about a comparison between the Prince and Hitler.
It is a clear example of reductio at hitlerium (spelling?) where you claim he isn't racist because he wasn't like Hitler.

BTW, I'd expect people to understand these days that there were many shades of racism and many forms. You can be racist and have non-white friends. You can treat some non-white well and others not. You can even employ without looking at race and be racist.
And there's a difference between being a racist and being racist. Some behaviour can be racist, even if the person isn't a racist. Many forms of racism have been learned growing up and even those of us who think are not, should sometimes pause and verify our own biases and prejudices.
In that sense, the whole argument about Prince Philip being racist or a racist is sterile. He had behaviour, or at least words, that is considered racist. How much he was at heart, we can't say.
But remember that he could be racist and still be nice to the Obamas. It's like saying, I'm not racist, I have a black friend. Hmm
But a few ill placed comments do not make him a racist. Not as a defined characteristic.

In my opinion most of the pps all recognise his failings, just disagree on what to call it. He's not a devil or a saint. Shocker.

Lweji · 10/04/2021 08:02

Why is it, we're allowed to criticise Philip, but not Meghan?

A criticism is when people have done something, not when we expect them to.
Most mentions of Meghan and Harry on these threads have been speculative rather than reactive.
I really don't think it's fair to bad mouth them for something they haven't done, but pps expect them to.

SueSaid · 10/04/2021 08:18

'OMG like totally!! Like Obama is so two-faced'

Honestly, are you a teenager?! Grow up.

So many glowing tributes online and on tv from people who have actually met PP or worked with him. They can't all be 'two faced' surely.

'really don't think it's fair to bad mouth them for something they haven't done'
They released a 2hr interview attacking the RF in the final weeks of PP's life, no doubt causing great hurt to the Queen and everyone else. So while I think we should ignore them let's not pretend they haven't upset a lot of his family at a very difficult time.

Macncheeseballs · 10/04/2021 08:46

I don't buy the 'product of his age' bs. Language and attitudes change over the years, and its the responsibility of someone in the public eye to keep up with those changes, unless they're being deliberately obtuse and arrogant.

VladmirsPoutine · 10/04/2021 12:20

I'm not white and I've always kept like a bingo card in my mind for when mostly white people would defend racism or minimise it. If it were real this thread would've made me a millionaire.

benorjerry · 10/04/2021 12:24

Gibraltar, just watching it now, looking decidedly wet and grey today!

jessstan2 · 10/04/2021 13:21

@Lweji

Why is it, we're allowed to criticise Philip, but not Meghan?

A criticism is when people have done something, not when we expect them to.
Most mentions of Meghan and Harry on these threads have been speculative rather than reactive.
I really don't think it's fair to bad mouth them for something they haven't done, but pps expect them to.

You can criticise whomever you like, I criticised Donald Trump, but get your facts straight first, don't depend on rumour and gossip.

Other than that, what's the point? Human beings have flaws, we should not put them on pedestals. In the Duke of Edinburgh's case I think his achievement outweighed his mistakes and he was quite a complex and interesting man. There's not much point in doing him down now anyway (I'm sure you haven't).

It makes a change for the media to be positive about somebody rather than hounding them, lying and taking things out of context.

Mittens030869 · 10/04/2021 13:51

Where Meghan is concerned, it’s very unfair on Harry, who is actually grieving for his Grandad (unlike the rest of us), to take unnecessary potshots at his wife when it has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Macncheeseballs · 10/04/2021 13:58

I'm not sure Harry's on mumsnet

Mittens030869 · 10/04/2021 14:08

No, but Meghan might be (probably not admittedly). Regardless, it just feels like it’s in poor taste to turn this into another opportunity to slag her off. It literally has nothing to do with her, Philip dying.

jessstan2 · 10/04/2021 16:50

I agree.

Meghan has come in for enough shit, it's time to call a halt. Let's face it, she has done no harm.

Back to the late Duke of Edinburgh.

I can only see one programme featuring him tonight and that is a repeated episode of the 'The Royal House of Windsor' on Channel 4. I've seen it fairly recently I think, it was quite good and I may watch again if nothing else takes my fancy.

sitandwait · 10/04/2021 17:08

Not everyone agrees that she's done no harm, just as not everyone agrees that the royals are above as criticism. Interesting though that people keep coming onto threads pronouncing that it's time to stop criticism of Harry and Meghan, as if it's up to them.

Funeral now announced for next Sat, along with the statement that Harry will attend but Meghan's doctors have advised her not to travel. This seems to me to be the best solution given that no option is ideal or will entirely avoid criticism.

Ifeelsuchafool · 10/04/2021 19:20

I don't think he was a racist, or sexist for that matter, fundamentally. Not in ways that really matter. ie I don't think he really thought that non whites or women were second class citizens and didn't deserve the kind of opportunities that most white males enjoy. I think he was just inarticulate and lacked a social compass generally. Hardly surprising when he grew up without a home. Packed off to boarding school with, "no fixed abode" never knowing where, or with what relatives, he would be spending the next holiday. Poor kid! No amount of relative wealth or grand connections, I think, can make up for that kind of nomadic upbringing.

I've heard people, particularly of his generation, make what they hope will be amusing remarks that they just don't think properly about, not meaning anything insulting but just because they're expected to make conversation and don't really have much imagination. He grew up in an era which encompassed the end of the British Empire and would have been used to many colonials being described as having, "turned native" which at the time meant nothing more insulting than that they'd adapted to life in their adopted country so well that they were more akin to the indigenous population there than to their British roots. I think that was all he was trying to say but realised that, "native" now has a racist connotation and also wanting to be light hearted and amusing, ended up just saying something even worse in his confusion.
I'd hate to have to spend my days making small talk to people I don't know, and probably have zero actual personal interest in, just because it's expected of me, especially if the only reason for having to do so was my spouse's job!
I'm a staunch Republican but I'm sorry for the queen as a person, they'd been married for such a long time, she must feel as if she's lost a part of herself, and I actually mourn the days when people just didn't speak ill of the dead for the sake of good manners.

keffie12 · 10/04/2021 19:28

Doesn't matter how long you've been married. It is earth shattering. I lost unexpectedly, my husband 3 years ago after 16 years together and 11 married.

He was and is my soul mate, husband, best friend and the Dad he didn't have to be to our 4. I am though grateful for those years and now in presence. Our lives would have been harder without my late husband. He came into our lives at a time when things were hell on earth in the aftermath of divorce from hell. He stood with us through it all. An exceptional mam

It doesn't get better. It gets different. I can only think of one thing worse than the loss of your life partner and I'm not even going to write it as you can guess

My thoughts are with the Queen. Its hell however long or shorter you have been together

My thoughts are also with the unknown ones who are grieving too

keffie12 · 10/04/2021 19:29

Should say man not mam 🙄 at me

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