AIBU - England couldn’t care less about Northern Ireland

[ThisThatTheOther]

Northern Ireland has seen a return to violence , petrol bombs etc every night for a week now. It’s dominated the headlines here in Ireland. People are worried as peace up north is so fragile. Listening to the radio yesterday an old advisor of Tony Blair was on to discuss. The radio host read out the top 8 listed stories on all main English sites and the violence of Northern Ireland didn’t even feature. It’s the top headline again in all major Irish publications this morning but not in English publications.

I think most people accept that invading another country and colonising it (whether Ireland, India or various African countries) was a bad thing and wouldn’t really care if Northern Ireland was handed back to Ireland.
Have to say I agree with this. Yes there probably would be more violence but people wouldn’t care about that either. Just as they don’t care about violence in any other countries.

@Rukaya

The funeral is the catalyst for violence

Bollocks it is. That's an excuse, and a very poor one.

Look at the timing, of course the the decision over the funeral was the catalyst for violence. How do you think it wasn't?

I think most people accept that invading another country and colonising it (whether Ireland, India or various African countries) was a bad thing and wouldn’t really care if Northern Ireland was handed back to Ireland

Of course they wouldn't care, they don't care what happens to NI, either way. But you talk about "handing it back to Ireland" without considering whether Ireland wants it back or whether the people living there want to be passed about like pawns.

@PADH if you read back some posts you will see posters that were circulated saying to meet at X time in response to the ‘Irish Protocol’. It is a bit simplistic to say loyalist protests are only happening because of something republicans did.

YANBU absolutely. This is partly why, despite not being Irish, I read the Irish Times and other countries' newspapers instead of the shameful English MSM.

It starts in English school history lessons with the cherry-picked curriculum and total airbrushing of Ireland - can't have the plebs thinking their precious England was ever in the wrong now can we, they might start asking questions - and continues into our adulthood with the obsessive over-reporting of London-centric issues and establishment irrelevances.

If you click on the bbc news northern ireland page at the moment there are 5 articles on the death of an establishment figure and just 2, not exactly in evidence, covering the violence affecting so many people. On the bbc uk news page there are 7 articles on the same deceased establishment figure and... none at all on NI.

Shame on the BBC.

@Mamimawr

If the English media gave it the attention it deserves then they would have to admit that Brexit was a huge mistake and they don't want to do that.

How is it being reported in Wales and Scotland, or is this another English-bashing thread?

Actually it was top news on Radio 4's The World Tonight programme last night at 10pm. Sorry if that doesn't fit the desired narrative.

If you read the Daily Heil/Express or Torygraph you can't expect any sensible coverage of anything.

@DenisetheMenace

I think it’s possibly are generational thing. My husband and I (62 and 56, in England) are increasingly worried. Have been since the border checks issue several weeks ago.

I think you could be right, there.

I'm 65, and The Troubles were an ever-present news story for nearly half my life. I remember being horrified by the Bloody Sunday shootings, and not understanding why soldiers were allowed to shoot people who were just protesting.

It’s been discussed a lot on radio here?

continues into our adulthood with the obsessive over-reporting of London-centric issues totally agree with this - but it's London, not England.

@peachgreen

As with everything in NI, there are a number of factors at play here and it's impossible to sum them up succinctly. Yes, Brexit, Bobby Storey's funeral, COVID restrictions in general, clamping down on Loyalist drug gangs etc etc. But it's also about deprivation, lack of education, community leaders that are stuck in the past, unemployment... It's not simple and there's no easy fix. Certainly not a united Ireland, as much as many of us may want that. There are plenty who don't, including many many people living in Ireland!

very true. The kids involved in the rioting are encouraged by hardliners for sure but if they had better prospects and weren't living with such deprivation they may have escaped from the sectarian way of life.

Even if there ever was to be a united Ireland this type of violence would still exist. There are many housing estates across the UK where similar acts take place.

@implantsandaDyson

The riots are also being orchestrated by criminal gangs that are indignant that the PSNI who are probably under the most useless Chief Constable in some time (and believe me there are quite a few in the running for that title) have had some success in disrupting and lifting large amounts of drugs before distribution. Apparently the "Republicans can move their drugs easier across the land border than we can from across the water and we're supposed to be British" - these actual words were said to me a few weeks ago.

Yeah that sounds about right!

Tbh I live in NI and I don't expect everyone in England to know or care what the rioting is about. I'm not actually sure what all the recent rioting in Bristol was about.

I'm 65, and The Troubles were an ever-present news story for nearly half my life. I remember being horrified by the Bloody Sunday shootings, and not understanding why soldiers were allowed to shoot people who were just protesting

I am younger than you so don't remember Bloody Sunday (I think it was just before I was born) but I agree that NI was on the news every night - someone was being shot by one side or the other every single night.

But some of us DID think about this when David Cameron decided in 2013 that it would be a great idea to hold an "in out" referendum about EU membership. Probably before a lot of remainer MNers jumped on the bandwagon, actually.

@SpringTimeDream

They seem to argue/fight/kill about extremely petty things in NI. I mean a funeral wasn't prosecuted during covid since difficult to convict etc and so a bunch of people think that's a good enough reason to riot/cause destruction/mayhem and assault others.....

Seriously WHY

Are you actually serious!!!! Really your stupidity and level of ignorance is absolutely shocking and disgusting.

[quote ThisThatTheOther]@PADH if you read back some posts you will see posters that were circulated saying to meet at X time in response to the ‘Irish Protocol’. It is a bit simplistic to say loyalist protests are only happening because of something republicans did.[/quote]
Its not simplistic at all, its very much in line with the us/them culture that ashamedly exists here. Look at our history, you do something, we do something. Retaliation after retaliation.

I voted against brexit, and have been opposing the Northern ireland protocol. As have many others here who do not wish to return to violence and oppose these senseless riots. These riots do nothing to help our cause or our. And I'm very much of the (unpopular) opinion that saying the riots began due to the protocol is giving these rioters an "out." They blatantly began following the decision to not prosecute anyone regarding the Bobby Storey funeral. Look at the timing.

Now the riots have started, they are being fanned irresponsibilly and more and more is being added in, and now they're getting bigger and more widespread.

@Hankunamatata

NI was moving forward. Most moderate people refer to themselves as northern irish - it's a compromise between called british or irish.

BUT then Brexit happened. Ob they weren't going to put a border on the land and stir up Republicans so they stuck it in the sea and stirred up unionists instead. Being cynical there was going to be issues whatever they did.

The education is amazing here IF your bright BUT has statistically failed lower class protestant boys with bad outcomes for them. We are now seeing the fallout of this.

Ffs it still a system where there are catholic schools and other state schools basically for protestants. Even bloody teachers are trained separately in two colleges based on religion. Small number of Intergrated schools and shared education campuses so things are moving slowly forward.

It's just another blip.

The riots looks frightening to people in England but tbh its nothing much different year on year, except we had Brexit to stoke the flames.

NI is an amazing place. With brilliant people who have a hilariously dark sense of humour.

BUT then Brexit happened. Ob they weren't going to put a border on the land and stir up Republicans so they stuck it in the sea and stirred up unionists instead. Being cynical there was going to be issues whatever they did.

They weren't going to put a border between NI and ROI because it would breach the GFA, and breaching an international treaty is kind of a big deal. Brexit and GFA meant that a border in the Irish Sea was inevitable.

This was repeatedly pointed out in the run-up to the Brexit vote and dismissed as "Project Fear" by all the politicians supporting Brexit.

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions as to whether they were lying or just too thick to get it.

[quote FolkSongSweet]@Sarahtrue11 I wouldn’t expect people in NI to know everything going on in Wales but I certainly would expect them to be aware of days of rioting and civil unrest in Cardiff. And days of rioting and civil unrest in Cardiff would be reported prominently in all media across the U.K.

I’m glad you found your time in NI during the Troubles “exciting” but as someone who grew up there and lost family members and friends during the Troubles not to mention daily attacks and fear, I find it actually disgusting that you posted that on here like it wasn’t all that bad.[/quote]
I would say that rioting in Northern Ireland is not big news. We have all heard about many riots in Northern Ireland over the last thirty years. It is not an uncommon thing to hear about there.

I think there is a general attitude of "oh there they go again". and "will they ever grow up". They have been fighting about the same shit for so long, when they could sit down and look at moving forward.

@CapricornRising

*can't have the plebs thinking their precious England was ever in the wrong now can we, they might start asking questions

Shame on the BBC*

I wonder what the media coverage of the Bristol riots was like in Ireland?

@MimiPigeon

I think most people accept that invading another country and colonising it (whether Ireland, India or various African countries) was a bad thing and wouldn’t really care if Northern Ireland was handed back to Ireland. Have to say I agree with this. Yes there probably would be more violence but people wouldn’t care about that either. Just as they don’t care about violence in any other countries.

This is where it gets complicated; an act of Union is a bit different to being colonized. Such is the appetite of nationalism, these two things are conflated.

The basic problem with NI is its sectarianism which it places above everything else. Separate schools, separate areas, kept that way and nurtured by both sides into their politicians who they vote for, year after year. It won’t change because NI votes along sectarian lines, and that isn’t on England. Our lives aren’t motivated from being separate - and many NI people who settle in England like it for exactly that reason.

Your average Ulsterman doesn’t even share the same mentality as modern England. He’s probably still thinking about Church and State.

Yanbu

It's terrible that this isn't discussed more.

@LexMitior I sadly agree

I think there is a general attitude of "oh there they go again". and "will they ever grow up". They have been fighting about the same shit for so long, when they could sit down and look at moving forward.

Do people seriously not understand how patronising and offensive this is

It certainly has been covered, I've heard news reports on bbc radio and bbc tv news each day since it has been happening. I'll lay money on Ch 4 news having covered it too.
I think you are right that much of the general public couldn't care less but then they don't seem to care about anything that doesn't have a 'celebrity' involved, it's not just NI, it's lots of very important issues that they can't be arsed to think about if it doesn't directly impact upon them.

All this talk of colonialism still. The issue is entrenched sectarianism & an impressionable generation of young people who are being incentivised to violence by political/sectarian activists. They are the victims in this (the youths.)

@dreamingbohemian

I think there is a general attitude of "oh there they go again". and "will they ever grow up". They have been fighting about the same shit for so long, when they could sit down and look at moving forward.

Do people seriously not understand how patronising and offensive this is

@dreamingbohemian Northern Ireland is one of the very few countries in Europe that has such a ridiculous level of sectarianism, division, hatred and fighting. For what? For fucking what? It was not the only country in Europe that was colonised 100 years ago. It seems to think it was.

Fot a first-world county, it is absolutely ridiculous. Why don't they sit down and talk about how to move forward.

I would say that rioting in Northern Ireland is not big news. We have all heard about many riots in Northern Ireland over the last thirty years. It is not an uncommon thing to hear about there.

I think there is a general attitude of "oh there they go again". and "will they ever grow up". They have been fighting about the same shit for so long, when they could sit down and look at moving forward.

This