AIBU - England couldn’t care less about Northern Ireland

[ThisThatTheOther]

Northern Ireland has seen a return to violence , petrol bombs etc every night for a week now. It’s dominated the headlines here in Ireland. People are worried as peace up north is so fragile. Listening to the radio yesterday an old advisor of Tony Blair was on to discuss. The radio host read out the top 8 listed stories on all main English sites and the violence of Northern Ireland didn’t even feature. It’s the top headline again in all major Irish publications this morning but not in English publications.

@Thewiseoneincognito

Forgive my ignorance but why is this happening in 2021?

Why has Irish society not been able to move on and why on Earth are young people getting caught up in this? Anyone under the age of 30 is clearly continuing the hate perpetuated by their parents.

How does this stop?

I'm sorry I completely disagree with your comment. I'm 36 and live in belfast with two toddlers. I was born in the 80s and seen a fair few parts of the troubles. When I hit my teenage yrs the peace process had begun and it was brilliant! My parents were and are still very much political. They are republicans and proud of it. BUT that was NEVER put on me, it was never preached to me or told me to follow their values. Discussions at the dinner table between my parents was always politic. In fact it made me grow to hate listening to bloody politics. I grew up had both catholic & protestant friends and my parents never said anything. In fact they were very welcoming to my protestant friends. It never bothered them. They were also pleased to see the peace process and that when myself and my brother hit our teens they could relax that we could go out and not have to worry about the troubles. So my point is that you can't say that about the parents pushing it on their kids. Mine didn't! Nor did any of my friends parents either side of religion.. Everyone wanted peace! Yes there are obviously still some low lives that obviously get a kick out of the violence and trying to bring us back to the past but 99% of us want the peace to continue for BOTH sides. No one wants this crap starting again. I'm already beginning to worry about are my kids gonna grow up and see what I seen. It's not nice! It's made me grow to hate religion because all I've ever known is how religion has divided people caused wars... FOR WHAT?

I guarantee you these young ones out causing havoc have zero proper knowledge of what the troubles were actually like. They are following so called adults who still believe in the troubles and they are putting crap into young ones heads, and then their parents are most likely pleading with them to stay out of this trouble but it's falling on deaf ears because they have no real clue what growing up in violence does and how it will affect our beautiful country.

@Alwaysandforeverhere

"I’m under 30 and I even went into further education thank you........
Yes I can and do research something that peaks my interest..."

If the first was true, you'd think you'd know it's piqued, not peaked. You really are parading your ignorance here.

You're right, it's an absolute joke. It was about 4th on the BBC app yesterday and I expect it will be nowhere to be seen now everything is wall to wall sickening bullshit about Prince Philip.

@Sarahtrue11 I wouldn’t expect people in NI to know everything going on in Wales but I certainly would expect them to be aware of days of rioting and civil unrest in Cardiff. And days of rioting and civil unrest in Cardiff would be reported prominently in all media across the U.K.

I’m glad you found your time in NI during the Troubles “exciting” but as someone who grew up there and lost family members and friends during the Troubles not to mention daily attacks and fear, I find it actually disgusting that you posted that on here like it wasn’t all that bad.

The riots are also being orchestrated by criminal gangs that are indignant that the PSNI who are probably under the most useless Chief Constable in some time (and believe me there are quite a few in the running for that title) have had some success in disrupting and lifting large amounts of drugs before distribution. Apparently the "Republicans can move their drugs easier across the land border than we can from across the water and we're supposed to be British" - these actual words were said to me a few weeks ago.

Well, these riots are due to the handling of the Bobby Storey funeral, not brexit itself.

Brexit has however been increasing tensions regarding the border issue etc

These riots are not just about the funeral

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/northern-ireland-riots-unionists-belfast-b1828296.html

www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56664378

Brexit’s Northern Ireland Protocol appears to be at the heart of the conflict as loyalists express their anger at trading arrangements that have created economic barriers between the country and the rest of the UK across the Irish Sea.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/northern-ireland-timeline-cause-riots-brexit-b1828410.html

People warned this would happen, over and over again. A lot of English people just don’t give a shit

Yep, it was dismissed as "Project Fear" and generally treated as a load of scaremongering.

When I pointed out that Brexit's incompatibility with the GFA would endanger the fragile peace in the island of Ireland to my MIL, she responded that Ireland should all go back to being one country... and part of the UK.

[quote Mochudubh]@Alwaysandforeverhere

"I’m under 30 and I even went into further education thank you........
Yes I can and do research something that peaks my interest..."

If the first was true, you'd think you'd know it's piqued, not peaked. You really are parading your ignorance here.[/quote]
Oh how ever terrible of me on a random forum to write something wrong via my mobile.

Slow clap for the person completely missing the point. Go you.

Yes that's right @Aloethere - we English are the most poorly educated and inward looking people on the planet. We are furthermore responsible for all the ills of the world.

Good grief- is it any wonder that violence and discrimination finds its voice with attitudes like yours.

Yet again on MN the 21st Century "English" are the villains of the piece. In reality, events are considerably more complex and messy. In reality there are good and bad people in every country on this planet. Every country has historical events that they are not proud of . Many ordinary people had very little say in foreign policy in times gone by, but don't let things like that stop you making sweeping generalisations about whole nations. Similarly most religions have had terrible things done in in their "names". Do you therefore judge every religious person as fundamentally evil?

As ever, there is little room for nuance or considered debate.

I best get back to my little English life, where the world revolves around me.

@AuntieStella

It was top story on the BBC news yesterday evening, and is the top non-Covid article on the website

But only the FT and The Metro have it anywhere on their front pages

Taken on board the comments above about style of reporting. What's been absent is all the build-up to this, and just generally what's going on in NI politics. Coverage only when there is an exceptional event isn't a great approach by national news organisations.

IME the BBC has dumbed down considerably in recent years, and I watch more by habit than anything else. I sometimes watch SKY, but does anyone have recommendations of any others MSM which cover more current events (and little to no entertainment or sport)?

It was prominent on The Guardian website earlier, but has been overtaken by the death of a 99 year old man now.

@skirk64
The border in the Irish Sea or hard border between Ireland and NI were not an inevitable consequence of Brexit, they were a political decision by the EU and Irish and UK governments. Borders are avoidable - the EU insisted upon one

There has to be a border between different customs areas, how else would the UK consumer be protected against sub standard foods rife in the UK or the EU consumer protected against hormone chicken from the UK.
There also has to be a means to check goods where duty etc is being paid.

But put this violence into perspective, atm its low key, similar to what happened 6 years ago.

BigBlue it is a failed state. The DUP WANT it to be a failed state so that people live in fear of losing subsidies. They do nothing for their communities yet at election time they're out spreading fear about Sinn Féin and themmuns.

And Sinn Féin has every right to talk about a BP and dates if they like....it is in the Good Friday Agreement that we can vote for constitutional change and we have every right to discuss it without being held to ransom by drugged out loyalist thugs. If 50% + 1 has been enough to maintain the crappy union, then 50% + 1 will be enough to change it, and it will.

We will not let drug dealing loyalists ruin the futures for our children by forcing us to stay in Brexit Tory Britain in a colonised, sectarian, failed statelet. The census will show a majority nationalist population for the first time more than likely in NI's sorry history...that might be the impetus the SOS needs to call the Poll.

Of course there are issues ongoing re Brexit, but that is not what the riots are currently about

This pic is a post that's been doing the rounds on social media the last few days

[quote AryaStarkWolf]Well, these riots are due to the handling of the Bobby Storey funeral, not brexit itself.

Brexit has however been increasing tensions regarding the border issue etc

These riots are not just about the funeral

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/northern-ireland-riots-unionists-belfast-b1828296.html

www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56664378

Brexit’s Northern Ireland Protocol appears to be at the heart of the conflict as loyalists express their anger at trading arrangements that have created economic barriers between the country and the rest of the UK across the Irish Sea.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/northern-ireland-timeline-cause-riots-brexit-b1828410.html[/quote]
Thats a massive misrepresentation of whats going on on the ground. I'm currently in the middle of it, with massive protests/riots being organised in my town for this evening, all on the grounds of challenging the Bobby Storey funeral and the republican "show of strength" with not one mention of the northern Ireland protocol. Our first minister herself addressed the riots as being aimed at the funeral. There are other groups of protestants opposing the Northern ireland protocol, but it seems these are all being conflated together and spun by the media and certain politicians with an agenda. People are claiming its all to do with Brexit after the fact. Look at the timing of when the riots started. It's all merging together, being fanned on by irresponsible parties, but its certainly not how it started. It's being escalated by people with a certain agenda, who of course won't be held accountable - a running theme in Northern ireland politics.

Those rioting are very much about shows of strength, and us vs them mentality. Those opposed to brexit and the Northern ireland protocol (generally) go about protesting and voicing opinion very very differently.

My social media platforms make for very terrifying reading at the minute, none of which is being well represented in the media.

I'm English and living in Belfast and have been inundated with relatives and friends asking if we're ok. So far seems like pockets of small handfuls of thugs (and seem mostly kids from photos I've seen!) and Belfast still feels very safe, certainly where I am. But they must be reporting it in GB as friends and family seem to think I'm living in a constant war zone.

What concerns me most is NI politicians seem to be using it for point scoring rather than trying to diffuse the situation or improve the deprived communities instigating this. However, I think YANBU to suggest UK politics on the whole doesn't give a shit about NI. Brexit is testament to that.

The funeral is the catalyst for violence

But all of these grievances and anger aren't coming out of nowhere. All sorts of other things contribute to resentment and ill feeling, and then you just need a spark to get people on the streets.

The impact of Brexit on NI is part of that bigger picture, I don't see how you can say it's not.

The funeral is the catalyst for violence

Bollocks it is. That's an excuse, and a very poor one.

Why has Irish society not been able to move on and why on Earth are young people getting caught up in this? Anyone under the age of 30 is clearly continuing the hate perpetuated by their parents

Irish society? Fuck off. There is no rioting in the country of Ireland this week...its in the UK. Northern Ireland is the UK, its YOUR society.

I thank god every single day I got off that godforsaken island for good this year. Born and raised there and always hated it, and hated how when I would travel elsewhere I would get ignorant questions to boot. A lot of the replies on this thread make for such depressing reading.

@Sarahtrue11 that’s nonsense. If Wales had a civil war we in Ireland would know about it. I am from Ireland and I know all about the shooting at Dunblane as it was this huge awful thing that happened.

In England many of us do care actually but we are also at a loss to understand why people want to perpetuate the violence.
Also I grew up with the Troubles reported on endlessly and of course the bombs in London and Birmingham.
I feel like both sides need their heads knocking together and to be told to give it up!
Learn to live together and let the past be in the past.

I tend to think that Ieland should be united again

[quote FolkSongSweet]@Sarahtrue11 I wouldn’t expect people in NI to know everything going on in Wales but I certainly would expect them to be aware of days of rioting and civil unrest in Cardiff. And days of rioting and civil unrest in Cardiff would be reported prominently in all media across the U.K.

I’m glad you found your time in NI during the Troubles “exciting” but as someone who grew up there and lost family members and friends during the Troubles not to mention daily attacks and fear, I find it actually disgusting that you posted that on here like it wasn’t all that bad.[/quote]
Well said @FolkSongSweet

@goldfinchfan

In England many of us do care actually but we are also at a loss to understand why people want to perpetuate the violence. Also I grew up with the Troubles reported on endlessly and of course the bombs in London and Birmingham. I feel like both sides need their heads knocking together and to be told to give it up! Learn to live together and let the past be in the past.

I tend to think that Ieland should be united again

Your last two sentences are at odds I'm afraid, I don't think you grasp it. There is no way of pleasing both sides and a unilaterally united Ireland would lead to a great deal more violence.

As with everything in NI, there are a number of factors at play here and it's impossible to sum them up succinctly. Yes, Brexit, Bobby Storey's funeral, COVID restrictions in general, clamping down on Loyalist drug gangs etc etc. But it's also about deprivation, lack of education, community leaders that are stuck in the past, unemployment... It's not simple and there's no easy fix. Certainly not a united Ireland, as much as many of us may want that. There are plenty who don't, including many many people living in Ireland!

Read all of my previous posts, I haven't said it's not. I've highlighted tension caused by brexit and coronavirus legislation.

The riots were caused by the funeral.

The NI protocol came into effect on 1st Jan. There were no protests then. There were no protests when our shelves were bare and supermarket freezers were empty. People were voicing their disagreement, lobbying their representatives, challenging the decisions, but not rioting. (Myself included)

Those rioting were in response to the funeral decision. Everything else has been dragged into it afterwards to make thugs feel more justified in their actions and for better political spin. (From what I'm seeing)

The Northern ireland protocol only came into it once media outside of Northern Ireland came into it. I think it has been snowballed purposely as a political statement regarding brexit, when it began as an institutionalised problem within Northern Ireland and this horrible us vs them culture here.

I agree the funeral was a catalyst and it's now being painted otherwise, after the fact.

I appreciate many will disagree with me, but I find the whole discussion very interesting.