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AIBU?

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To think it’s about time all women were Ms or Mrs following this plane error

449 replies

AtlasPine · 09/04/2021 07:29

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/09/tui-plane-serious-incident-every-miss-on-board-child-weight-birmingham-majorca

The confusion caused here could have had dire consequences.

Isn’t it about time we dropped the title ‘Miss’ to differentiate between adult women and girls?

OP posts:
CovidCorvid · 09/04/2021 10:11

Sorry 69kg. Still doesn’t seem enough.

C8H10N4O2 · 09/04/2021 10:12

Two different issues.

Should we stop labeling women by their marital status? Yes absolutely - don't care what prefix we end up with but its ridiculous to label women in terms of their relationship to a man.

The ridiculous situation at TUI is a consequence of incompetent systems design and even less competent testing. There is no excuse for it.

poppycat10 · 09/04/2021 10:13

TUI is a German company isn't it. In Germany once you are 18 you are frau whether you are married or not, so someone obviously thought the same was the case in English.

In my view it should be. We don't need to know a man's marital status, so we don't need to know a woman's either. I filled in a form today where the title was a compulsory field - why?

raincamepouringdown · 09/04/2021 10:14

I agree. I think it's appalling that women's titles are defined by their marital status while men just get to be men.

NewPapaGuinea · 09/04/2021 10:14

Pretty terrifying that such a system design flaw made it all the way into operation! Undermines the integrity of the rest of the system.

BarbaraofSeville · 09/04/2021 10:15

I wonder if airlines in different countries use different average weights?

I think I read something about an internal carrier in the US finding that a lot of their passengers weighed more than the industry standard averages.

And you'd probably find that the average passenger weight on airlines that operate between many Asian countries to be quite a bit smaller than 69 kg.

YouAreYourBestThing · 09/04/2021 10:16

Goodness! They seriously need to 'up' their standard adult average weight don't they!! 69kg??

According to ONS data, the average male weight in the UK is 83.6kg and average female is 70.2kg, so straight away they are MILES out with that figure, which is a bit worrying! They obviously haven't changed it since the famine years!

Rewis · 09/04/2021 10:19

Why is there a need for titles anyway (I'm not British and nobody had referred to me as title lastname until I moved to uk)? Especially when boarding a plane? The system is really flawed if it based on a title. Maybe use the date of birth instead.

peak2021 · 09/04/2021 10:19

Surely all we need to know is that they are adults or children? In any case the failure of one IT system should not be grounds to change everyone else's.

TroubleUsedToBeMyBusiness · 09/04/2021 10:22

I would much prefer to be a Ms. i am married but did not change my name to my husband's so everything automatically comes to me as Miss and it is not worth the effort of trying to change. I did attempt it but was met with many computer says no instances

ancientgran · 09/04/2021 10:22

@Brefugee

That's everything to do with the weight entry error and nothing to do with ms/miss. What a crazy system to start with.

nope. It's an automated system that allocates Mr, Mrs and Ms with 69kg and Miss as 35kg.

I wonder what about boys who are routinely Mr though?

But OP is right it is high time women were Ms. (I'm all for leaving off Mrs too)

So you get to decide for roughly 50% of the population?
littlepattilou · 09/04/2021 10:25

@AtlasPine

This is nothing to do with any woman being a Miss or Ms or Mrs. That is the actions of an incredibly irresponsible, thick, low-intellect pillock, who needs sacking yesterday!

Also I HATE 'Ms' as an address for a woman who doesn't want their marital status. It sounds so naff. (JMHO obvs!)

Gobbeldegook · 09/04/2021 10:29

I really don't know why they don't just ask for an approximate weight for each passenger at the point of booking

BLToutanowhere · 09/04/2021 10:30

That seems a genuinely insane way of doing it. Title is no indicator of weight or even gender if it comes down to it these days.

Miss can mean a strapping 30 year old or a dainty 6 year old and all other shapes and sizes in the same way as my sons are both Mr but certainly (thank God as they eat enough as it is) are nowhere near the same size as me.

Ms, Miss, Mrs, Dr whatever. It's up to the woman.

BarbaraofSeville · 09/04/2021 10:31

@Gobbeldegook

I really don't know why they don't just ask for an approximate weight for each passenger at the point of booking
Because people tell them the weight they would like to be, not the weight they are fully dressed in outdoor clothes and shoes.
MarieIVanArkleStinks · 09/04/2021 10:38

Titles are obsolete IMO. What are they for? A name is enough to identify a person, surely. But a title which automatically announces women's sexual status to strangers, particularly when those titles are all a truncation of the same word of 'mistress', does seem very archaic and pointless in this day and age.

A 'Dr' title neatly circumvents the problem for me, but women should not have to complete a PhD to exercise such a 'privilege.' I'm okay with Ms, but prefer Dr as this doesn't announce my sex or status. The French and German custom of Mademoiselle/Fraulein reverting to Madame/Frau when females reach adulthood also sounds sensible to me. I'd accept 'Mrs' were a similar custom to be adopted here (but not unless).

As a married woman who has always used my own family name I've been quite surprised at the ferocity of reaction (only ever emanating from other women, funnily enough) to this idea. Attempts to put me back in my box have been quite unexpected. Retaining one's own identity on marriage isn't that unusual. Beats me why any stranger would give a fluffy fuck how another stranger was styled when all they want is to tick a box. My MiL persists in addressing my by Mrs Hisname, which she knows fine well I've never used, despite polite requests to respect my actual identity. I've even received a (very wrong) assertion that I don't 'respect' my husband. Our respect is mutual.

Where passenger safety is an issue, it becomes more pressing. A default adult female identity is a good idea (I have no problem if this happened to be Mrs for everyone). The argument that this removes 'choice' is a little odd, as there is nothing stopping people from replacing this with another preference should they so choose.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 09/04/2021 10:39

@speakout

I too think titles which denote sex, gender or marital status should be abandoned. Far too personal. I can see a fair use for professional titles in a working envronment- Dr, Prof, Rev etc,
But some women prefer to be Miss or Mrs rather than Ms - why should their preferences not be taken into account?
C152 · 09/04/2021 10:39

YAB totally U. This is about a software programming error and possibly a briefing error from those who employed the programmers.

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 09/04/2021 10:41

@Gobbeldegook

I really don't know why they don't just ask for an approximate weight for each passenger at the point of booking
People will give the weight that they intend to be once they've done their pre-holiday diet.

The airline won't get any useful information at all - far better to use an average, or a pressure pad to discreetly weigh passengers and their baggage.

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 09/04/2021 10:42

@YouAreYourBestThing

Goodness! They seriously need to 'up' their standard adult average weight don't they!! 69kg??

According to ONS data, the average male weight in the UK is 83.6kg and average female is 70.2kg, so straight away they are MILES out with that figure, which is a bit worrying! They obviously haven't changed it since the famine years!

69kg was the standard women's weight wasn't it? So not miles out at all.
MarieIVanArkleStinks · 09/04/2021 10:43

@Rewis

Why is there a need for titles anyway (I'm not British and nobody had referred to me as title lastname until I moved to uk)? Especially when boarding a plane? The system is really flawed if it based on a title. Maybe use the date of birth instead.
Agree. I really don't see the point of them.
listsandbudgets · 09/04/2021 10:44

Why... should I be pigeonholed into something I'm not? I am sure most organisations are capable of ascertaining my status as an adult based on my date of birth.

I'm not married so not a Mrs.

I'm not divorced or vaguely in the middle. I love my DP, we've been together 22 years but I'm still me not a part or ex part of him.

So I'm a Miss and happy with it.

I don't know which you are - presumably Mrs. or Ms. but please don't impose your title on me... I'm very happy as I am.

Regards

Miss Listsandbudgets.

rainbowthoughts · 09/04/2021 10:44

You think women should change because of an IT error?

LookAChicken · 09/04/2021 10:44

Well Master for a boy fell out of use si why not drop Miss.🤷

NRCS · 09/04/2021 10:45

I too have been Ms since old enough to realise that women were offered up on a platter to men as available (Miss) or not (Mrs). But I support women's rights to call themselves Miss or Mrs if it's meaningful for them, even though I find it archaic.

In terms of an airline booking system this is just really bad coding. They've used the wrong field in the title fuels and should clearly use the field you have to select when booking as adult or child or, as others have said, the inputted age or DOB.

I do think titles generally are archaic as well, I never use Ms unless the online system forces it. I am quite happy for everyone to be First Name - Surname as that is enough to identify them, especially in the workplace where it's irrelevant if someone is married or not and I'd probably notice if they were a child.

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