To think it’s about time all women were Ms or Mrs following this plane error

[AtlasPine]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/09/tui-plane-serious-incident-every-miss-on-board-child-weight-birmingham-majorca

The confusion caused here could have had dire consequences.

Isn’t it about time we dropped the title ‘Miss’ to differentiate between adult women and girls?

In many countries you become "Mrs" or the equivalent with adulthood. Seems like a good system to me.

As an aside why do people call themselves Dr just because they have an academic qualification

Why do people call themselves Mrs just because they got married?

Why is it ok to include marital status in a title but not an academic one?

So you get to decide for roughly 50% of the population?

the women in many many other countries ditched it without a backward glance. I've been asked regularly over the years why the British want Miss/Mrs/Ms and how to determine what it means by Germans. They then say either "too complicated" and use Mrs for everyone or they realise that Frau = Ms and use that.

that sounds stupid and confuses people about how to pronounce it and it doesn’t have history behind it like Miss/Mrs.

it means, like the others, Mistress. Use that. Also Mrs? How do people who aren't native speakers and encounter that for the first time handle it? they need explanation.

And for everyone who is all "oh but I love being Mrs and you nasty people aren't taking it away" how about you come up with an equivalent for men

mistress -> miss - master -> mr - unmarried/children
mistress -> mrs - mister -> mr - married
mistress -> ms - mister -> mr - unmarried adult

what do you suggest outside of us all using the full word in which case women get to hide their marital status as do men.

Fair enough to use "Dr" or letters behind your name when dealing in a professional capacity, or workplace, but no place at all for any of that in "normal" life, such as booking an aircraft seat!

Then the same should go for all military ranks (Major, Captain and so on), all religious titles (Father, and Reverend and the like) as well as inherited and bestowed titles such as Lord, lady, Dame and the like.

*Why do people call themselves Mrs just because they got married?

Why is it ok to include marital status in a title but not an academic one?*

Exactly. My PhD is far more of an achievement than being married!

Red - I'm a biological woman, but I identify as 60Kg. :)

@ravenmum

It's the women's weight that is relevant here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_weight#By_country
This lists 70kg as the average woman's body weight in the UK. Obviously many women are a lot heavier or lighter, but if you're not actually weighing, then the average is your only choice.
Obviously airlines might use an international figure, which could be slightly lower - Spanish women are listed here as weighing 66.6 kg on average, for instance.

Ah, but obviously the airlines are far less informed that the MN posters who think all women weigh +70kg, just because they and their friends/relations do!

Very few of my female friends will weigh as much as 70kg, I can only think of three or four who would do tbh. This is most of my friendships are based around sports, so the women I know are really fit and active. Other people will have friendship groups with different demographics.

What is foolish is assuming that just because the people you know are large/skinny, they must be representative of the general population. (A bit like an airline assuming that everyone called 'Miss' is a child!)

An airline flying mainly in western Europe is likely to use an average for western Europe, I'd imagine? Either that or a weighted average based on the nationality data they hold about their passengers.

Anyway, I'm in favour of having something like 'Mr' for all men (I use Ms). The airlines should be working out weights using sex and DOB, nothing else.

"Fräulein" was ditched relatively easily in Germany, I'd say, but it took from about 1950 to 1970 before it disappeared from official use. Some women clung onto it, so there was quite a backward glance, but after it fell out of official use that put an end to it. Although the diminutive "lein" ending did put quite a lot of women off in a way that "Miss" probably doesn't. German story: www.wn.de/Welt/Vermischtes/4319132-Gleichberechtigung-Als-das-Fraeulein-verschwand

@YetAnotherSpartacus

Fair enough to use "Dr" or letters behind your name when dealing in a professional capacity, or workplace, but no place at all for any of that in "normal" life, such as booking an aircraft seat!

Then the same should go for all military ranks (Major, Captain and so on), all religious titles (Father, and Reverend and the like) as well as inherited and bestowed titles such as Lord, lady, Dame and the like.

*Why do people call themselves Mrs just because they got married?

Why is it ok to include marital status in a title but not an academic one?*

Exactly. My PhD is far more of an achievement than being married!

Red - I'm a biological woman, but I identify as 60Kg. :)

I agree. Military ranks and other designations are likewise irrelevant and have no place in "normal" day to day matters.

No need nor justification to use Sir, Major, Doctor, Reverend or anything like that when doing online shopping or registering for a new dentist. They have no place at all in "normal" life.

No need nor justification to use Sir, Major, Doctor, Reverend or anything like that when doing online shopping or registering for a new dentist

So no need for Mrs then either? It isn’t relevant in today’s society, no one cares if you’re married or not. Neither the dentist or the person on Tesco’s checkout needs to know you’re married.

There's a lot of jealousy on here from people who don't have doctorates but are desperate to cling to their marital status as milestone achievement.

No need nor justification to use Sir, Major, Doctor, Reverend or anything like that when doing online shopping or registering for a new dentist

But they are as valid a title as Mr/Mrs.

So no need for Mrs then either? It isn’t relevant in today’s society, no one cares if you’re married or not. Neither the dentist or the person on Tesco’s checkout needs to know you’re married

Exactly.

Feeling really podgy reading how nobody knows any women who weigh 70kg + as I am 6 four and weigh 85kg. And I am not fat; I am a size 14.

I remember a couple of years ago we were on an A380 that had quite a lot of spare seats near where we were seated (at the back) - the flight attendant said we should grab the spares now before anyone else got wind and moved down. I asked him if us moving around would make a difference to take off weight and he laughed and said that my 69kg wouldn't make a difference in a plane of this size. I weighed around 69kg at the time and thought it was amazing he had guessed my weight just by looking at me. Reading that article has made it make sense - I am the average adult air passenger!

I'm around 69kg and I'm slimmer than most on the school run or in town, not boasting as I've been much bigger, just observing. Can't believe they'd have that as an average!

@Reachersloveinterest

Feeling really podgy reading how nobody knows any women who weigh 70kg + as I am 6 four and weigh 85kg. And I am not fat; I am a size 14.

Please don't feel that way. I didn't say that there are no women who weigh over 70kg - 70kg is obviously the average, based on the statistics available.

My point was aimed at the all posters claiming that 70kg couldn't possible be the average because the women they happen to know are bigger than that. We all mix in different circles, and no-one can claim their social group is fully representative.

@CookPassBabtridge

I'm around 69kg and I'm slimmer than most on the school run or in town, not boasting as I've been much bigger, just observing. Can't believe they'd have that as an average!

Seriously - look up the statistics for the average woman's weight in the UK. Two different data sources have been quoted in this thread, but they both say 70kg so I'd say that's a pretty sensible benchmark to use.

What you happen to see in your particular area of town is not necessarily representative of all women in the UK, or in western Europe, or all women who are likely to be taking plane journeys with TUI.

@Reachersloveinterest I am! I’m 12 stone (so about 76Kg) for someone of my height (5ft 10) I’m a healthy weight. I wonder if people just don’t realise people’s weight, out and about I see lots of women built like me.

I don’t want to be called Ms, it’s an annoying made-up word

Oh man, I've got some terrible news for you about literally all words.

Snorted my tea down my nose!

Men have Mr
Woman have Miss Ms Mrs - why is this even necessary

Obviously the other titles that either can have Dr Prof

I think a lot of people don't realise what the average woman weighs even when she's not overweight.

A lot of people like to pretend that a typical woman weighs 8 or 9 stone, but in reality, a tall sporty woman with a body fat percentage within the healthy range can easily weigh 12 or 13 stone, I don't know what this is in kilos but I do know it's quite a bit above 70.

I'm a biological woman, but I identify as 60Kg

I’ve never really thought about it... I just fill in Miss or Ms when using my maiden name (which is on my passport / bank card etc...)
Never thought about changing my name when married, either. Just did it, don’t really know why! Now these things seem to matter more.

NRCS
I am an unmarried nearly 50 something with a partner and kids, do people in that situation really still call themsleves Miss? (Outside of schools) Wouldn't that seem really weird?

Yes, they do. No, it's not.

I'm also an unmarried almost 50-something. My title is Miss. I prefer it that way. I prefer the way it sounds compared to Ms. Why should I be forced to change it just because other people don't like it/think it's archaic?

But OP is right it is high time women were Ms. (I'm all for leaving off Mrs too)

I will stick with Doctor, thank you very much. It's high time people worked out that an honorific tells you nothing about anything. Given that airlines collect plenty of information about their passengers, perhaps they should just ask their weight instead of guessing!

It'd be interesting to see what weight the TUI computer enters for Dr, Rev etc and whether its sexist or not....