‘If you look white, then you are white’- what is this now?!

[OwlBeThere]

I’ll start this by saying this is a conversation I had on tiktok. Yes,it’s mostly younger people on that app, but there is also some fantastic political discourse and discussion around linguistics which is my field so that’s what I use it for.

I am mixed race. My mother is Asian (Japanese), my dad is Welsh. I have the kind of skin that is very pale until I see the sun then I tan quickly. I don’t ‘look’ very obviously Asian, I suppose. I do have very straight, very dark hair from my mother, and I do have a relatively flat bridge to my nose. In my welsh village where I was raised from age 4 (born in Japan, moved to Denmark when I was 2, then to wales) I was ‘that Chinese kid’ a lot in the 80s, I had my share of casual racism thrown my way. I speak Japanese, welsh and English.
All that backstory is just to explain why I was completely baffled when in a discussion around racism I was told that because my ‘phenotype’ is white and I’m ‘white passing’ then I am white and have no business taking part in a discussion on racism as I’ve ‘probably never experienced it’.
Many people ask me my heritage, so I think it’s pretty clear to most people that I’m mixed in some way because otherwise they wouldn’t ask, right?
Have any other people mixed race people come across this as a thing? This phenotype argument that appears to negate half of my family?!

@Faultymain5

No one said it does. I’m talking about the oddity of comparing village life to a metropolis when (for whatever reason), we’re comparing who has it worse.

Comparing who has it worse is very difficult and a useless divisive thing to do, that is the point the op is making.

@TaxTheRatFarms

Why is it an oddity?

Cause it’s not a fair comparison surely you see that? And in fact you’ve made a very valid point in your original response. Everyone in that same circumstance would be likely to receive racism. Trying to say it’s bad for one but not so bad for another living elsewhere.... well yes but it probably wouldn’t be so bad if you lived somewhere other than that village too what’s the point in the statement? To me that’s odd. Comparing is weird enough but comparing apples and oranges okay🤔. The only thing I can say is they’re fruit. The only thing I can say about othered people is that they are othered.

@Peanutbutterandbananatoastie
I see that now. Doh, comprehension skills running on fumes clearly.🤦🏾‍♀️

@Bul21ia I can believe this and I agree these comments often come from the black community which it saddens me to admit but I will!.

I’m with you I’m more embarrassed than saddened, but then I look at the source, and realise these are not “my black community” cause they are as ignorant and hypocritical as hell. And their arguments continue to paint them into a corner. Everyone should have a conversation on race if that’s what they wish to do.

@TaxTheRatFarms

Also I’m a bit at “like for like” because it’s not a competition.

Ds would come home from school wanting to rip his skin off, wanting to kill himself at the worst points. Is that not enough? Because the colour of his skin is “lighter” than his black classmate, somehow the racism doesn’t count?

Who told you racism directed at your son doesn’t count? Is it because it was coming from a black person. Well we all have our prejudices and when we use them to bully and make others feel othered (even whilst themselves being othered) doesn’t mean that what their doing doesn’t matter. Racism is racism. Although there are various different definitions of the term.

We're also a Japanese mixed race family. Our children, one of whom is more "creamy" like me, haven't as of yet received any sort of prejudice but then we live in a small relaxed city. I find millenials/young kids in their teens/20s insufferable in how they try and tell us how or what we should or shouldn't be feeling or experiencing. They're so full of self importance and justice and wokeness they insist that we must be experiencing this or that or can't call ourselves this or that. It's just a bunch of ignorant stupid people trying to tell you what you have or haven't been through, and they have no clue.

I also had a friend whose grandmother was white Irish, but the whole rest of her family was Pakistani. She came out completely white, pale, red haired and freckled, and experienced a lot of not so much racism but joshing, exclusionary behaviour etc from her Pakistani community.

Who told you racism directed at your son doesn’t count? Is it because it was coming from a black person.

The racism directed at my son absolutely wasn’t coming from a black person. It doesn’t say that anywhere in my post, which was about both kids receiving racist abuse. Ds has never been racially abused by a black person, whether a child at the school or an adult in the community.

Your post about about what would happen “like for like” to the only asian person in the village if a black person moved into the village seemed to suggest that the black person would experience more racism. Otherwise why make that comparison? Apologies if that wasn’t your intention though.

I understand what op meant with the city/village comment as that’s been exactly our experience, but I appreciate that other people may have had a different experience of that.

I do completely agree with you though that othered people are othered. Racists (weirdly!) don’t discriminate in that sense do they

@YouJustDoYou

I also had a friend whose grandmother was white Irish, but the whole rest of her family was Pakistani. She came out completely white, pale, red haired and freckled, and experienced a lot of not so much racism but joshing, exclusionary behaviour etc from her Pakistani community.

*experienced a lot of not so much racism but joshing, exclusionary behaviour etc from her Pakistani community*

It seems to me that it wasn’t considered racism because she appeared white. Had it been the other way around I bet it would have been described as racism....

@TaxTheRatFarms The racism directed at my son absolutely wasn’t coming from a black person. It doesn’t say that anywhere in my post, which was about both kids receiving racist abuse.

You are right you didn’t say that. It also wasn’t clear to me, that you were referring to both boys being racially abused. Sorry about that.

I completely get what you mean @OwlBeThere I'm also mixed race, but like you I'm pale skinned. A lot of people don't realise and assume I'm white. As I've got older I'd say most people I meet are surprised to find out I'm mixed race.
I've been thinking a lot about this recently, as like many people I've probably experienced both white privilege and racism during my life. It's such a grey area, almost like you're not allowed to identify with half of your heritage because you look "more white" or something.
At my DCs' school last year they had an international day and my DC both wore Chinese outfits. I overheard two of the dads saying about my DC "but there's not any Chinese blood there is there" and implying cultural appropriation or something and I was like, errr actually my DMother bought them those outfits in HK, where she's from

No problem @Faultymain5 I probably could have been more clear. It’s tough when it’s such an emotional topic!

I can believe this and I agree these comments often come from the black community which it saddens me to admit but I will!

Numerous Black people here have mixed race family members. It's 2021.

Most who say 'Black people diss me' will never ever admit to White racism against them in any form, in the pretence that it doesn't exist, and often are spending time on African American websites so their outlook on racism is influenced by all that.

This post isn't even about a Black mixed person but it doesn't ever take long to criticise Black people or act as if we are a homogenous same thinking and acting hive.

Racism does not lie at Black people's door. Black people are not responsible for the institutional and structural racism and microaggressions here.

It's not an 'Im more oppressed than Black people' race to the bottom contest.

@Faultymain5
OwlBeThere
@Coronawireless...you really can’t see that someone with lighter skin might suffer racism as much as someone darker depending on circumstances?
Being the ‘only ch**k in the village’ is going to be very different from being a dark black person in a multicultural city where there lots of people who look like you.

I think that’s fair but like for like what do you think would happen to “the only c*k in the village” if there was “the only black person in the village” too?

I genuinely can’t believe you’ve asked this, you think being asian in rural wales In the 80s would have been better or worse than being black? Because I really don’t think so. I don’t see how it would be different because to those people they wouldn’t have differentiated between being black or being Asian. That wasn’t the point, I was just ‘other’.
Playing competitive racism is a sad thing to do.

I think if you read my further posts, you’ll realised I misunderstood your original statement.

@Faultymain5 and the ONLY reason I compared my experiences to a black person in a city was the man who I talked about in my OP was from Birmingham, which even in the 80s was far more culturally diverse than wheee I lived so the experience was different. That’s all. I didn’t bring it up for no reason, I brought it up to make a point about this man and who made so many assumptions about my life and upbringing.

As I mentioned I misunderstood your post.

Fair enough @Faultymain5. I was responding as I was reading.

We're also a Japanese mixed race family. Our children, one of whom is more "creamy" like me, haven't as of yet received any sort of prejudice but then we live in a small relaxed city. I find millenials/young kids in their teens/20s insufferable in how they try and tell us how or what we should or shouldn't be feeling or experiencing. They're so full of self importance and justice and wokeness they insist that we must be experiencing this or that or can't call ourselves this or that. It's just a bunch of ignorant stupid people trying to tell you what you have or haven't been through, and they have no clue

God yes, I have a few teenagers here who spend their lives falling over themselves to be inoffensive and understanding and in that persuit are infuriating I tell myself at least they care about things. And then I explain why they are full of shit and know nothing

@RandomUsernameHere yes, when my daughter went to a school thing about family dressed in a kimono there were mutterings about it. It was mine from when I was a child IN JAPAN.

Just saying hi. I’m mixed race.

This whole year since George Floyd’s murder and BLM has sent my internal identity struggle into overdrive. Which is good.

Am I white enough? Asian enough? what is my experience and family story? Where do I fit? who are my people? How do I do the best for my child who will experience racism for his brown skin and my grandchild who will will be white passing but have many relatives who are not.

Ex Hs family had no difficulty figuring my identity. “Not one of us”

Hi @OneDrop
I’ve struggled my whole life with the same feelings of being white enough here, but not being Asian enough there (being offered a fork by a distant family member on one trip when I’m more than capable of using chopsticks was one time I felt really ‘other’ there) It’s really hard sometimes.
I also feel a big responsibility to teach my children their heritage, but then two of my children are adopted and do not have Japanese heritage, but they are my children so I still feel they have the same right to learn...but then I worry others will think that’s wrong, it’s a minefield!
All 4 of my kids when asked will say they are Welsh. They all were educated in welsh so it makes sense that that part of them feels more important to them and that’s fine. But I still teach them to use chopsticks and learn Japanese. One intends to do a year out in my hometown of Kobe teaching English. ♥️
But yes I feel your pain!

@OneDrop my ex’s father also wasn’t backwards in expressing his disappointment in me. Though I’m still not sure if it was the fact I was Asian or the fact I was Welsh that bothered him most 😂

I got another stupid comment like this yesterday. Apparently, because I'm not Muslim, I should not present myself as a native Arabic speaker. I am a native Arabic speaker. Since reading this thread I am noticing how much people police other people's identities more and more and are extrememly unhappy with people who don't fit into their framework of the world. I find it off that it is mostly young, liberal people who talking about being kind and embracing minorities who do this. When did it start?

Youjustdo, I agree. At the moment (and it probably goes in phases up and down over the decades) we have some often younger people who think they are right. I suppose lots of young people with a cause now and even int he 1500s think like that and as most people get older they realise there are different equally valid views on things. The I am right thing however can be dangerous and can feel a bit cult like - we are mightier than you all, we look down benevolently on you and we are the best; we then pretend we have all your interests at heart and we try to but by saying all the time we have the right view in a sense we don't. These people feel sorry for those who don't have ther view *(whether that be that everyone is racist or that not being vegan makes you a worse person or that Brexit voters are wrong or that unless you vote [ add their favourite -party -0 socialism, green etc) then you are wrong and they think one day if they work hard enough they will convert everyone to their one right view.

Although that single mindedness of the young can be a force for good and help people make good changes it can be patronising and over the top and even put people's backs up and damage a cause. A good example was when rich post Extinction Rebellion people stopped ordinary not well off people commute to work which meant they could not feed their children whereas the protestors had trust funds or rich parents or big pensions to live off and had no idea of the day to day struggles of people.

I was talking to one of my sons about it yesterday in the light of the comments that someone made in the press that it was wrong Prince P's family were white/the funeral guests were white. Well he was white. Yesterday my second daughter married in London and the 13 people allowed to attend were all white. not because we are a racist family (i hope none of us are) but because she happened to marry someone white. Coming into the same gardens for photos was a black family i was talking to and they were black. it was just how it was and everyone was really happy as it was a wedding day despite the royal funeral.

People should think about the best way to persuade others that something is wrong or a view should be changed but not from a position that my view is the top of the tower and it is my way or the high way.

As my son and I were saying people seem to want to put people into boxes now - you are [x] so therefore you are bad. I suppose it's simpler - you are with us or again our cause. Yet freedom and life is not like that. I do think it the current cancel culture will blow over as did the US McCarthy era which was part of my sons' A level course so they studied a fair bit about that. I was reminded of it when I watched the whole series of the Americans (fiction but based on Russia implanting spies into the US in the era of fears of "reds under the beds".

We are not as simple as people with views to be put into one box or other.

Ytrigging's post puts it better than I do. That they think those people are sure they are right and that XYZ people must feel like ABC and if they do not fit that neat box the XYZ need to change their views. The world instead is a mixed bag of views and people and nothing is simple. However the bottom line is it remains wise to be kind and fair to everyone (even a hard line extremist with set views).

enia At the moment (and it probably goes in phases up and down over the decades) we have some often younger people who think they are right. I suppose lots of young people with a cause now and even int he 1500s think like that

Its just bog-standard ignorance, stupidity and lack of education. The ignorance of a few of the posters on this thread is quite breathtaking. Having to have it explained to them over and over again that skin colour is not the only difference between races and still not getting it and insisting that they are right. It is really incredible that such blatant ignorance can exist and I do suspect that it is not actually ignorance with a couple of these posters, but blatant, anti-Asian racism. As for the people who insist that racism against everyone except blacks isn't somehow as serious - that is blatant racism again, and a concept that is completely unrecognised by the law.

It is quite well known that some mixed race Asian/white people can come out, due to the vagaries of genetics, looking white. I have a friend who is 1/4 Chinese who looks white to most people and who, as a result, is very careful to whom to mention her ethnic origins to as she can be mocked or accused of being a liar for simply saying she has a Chinese grandmother. I find that utterly shocking - that she cannot freely discuss her own racial origins due to the ignorance of people in this part of the world about mixed race phenology and its variety.

Then again, I have an American friend who is half Chinese but does look really quite white (as with my above friend, those of us who are Asian or mixed race Asian can often tell when someone else is mixed race Asian but white and, dare I say, black people, generally cannot). Because he is American, and mixed race people are possibly more accepted there, he has no problems being completely open about his heritage, and no-one doubts him.