‘If you look white, then you are white’- what is this now?!

[OwlBeThere]

I’ll start this by saying this is a conversation I had on tiktok. Yes,it’s mostly younger people on that app, but there is also some fantastic political discourse and discussion around linguistics which is my field so that’s what I use it for.

I am mixed race. My mother is Asian (Japanese), my dad is Welsh. I have the kind of skin that is very pale until I see the sun then I tan quickly. I don’t ‘look’ very obviously Asian, I suppose. I do have very straight, very dark hair from my mother, and I do have a relatively flat bridge to my nose. In my welsh village where I was raised from age 4 (born in Japan, moved to Denmark when I was 2, then to wales) I was ‘that Chinese kid’ a lot in the 80s, I had my share of casual racism thrown my way. I speak Japanese, welsh and English.
All that backstory is just to explain why I was completely baffled when in a discussion around racism I was told that because my ‘phenotype’ is white and I’m ‘white passing’ then I am white and have no business taking part in a discussion on racism as I’ve ‘probably never experienced it’.
Many people ask me my heritage, so I think it’s pretty clear to most people that I’m mixed in some way because otherwise they wouldn’t ask, right?
Have any other people mixed race people come across this as a thing? This phenotype argument that appears to negate half of my family?!

@shinytrees and the assumption as well. That if you are mixed you must be white+another. I know that it would be hard to put all the possible combinations on the form, but it must be annoying to constantly be "other." And TBH of all the "mixed" people I know only around half are white+other, so it isnt as if other combinations are more unnusual.

@shinytrees - sometimes I'd put white other, and sometimes I'd put mixed other - and write what it is. I do find this question difficult on forms.

I work in a college and they have a lot more categories to choose from on student enrolment forms.. e.g. different Asian and Middle-Eastern ethnicities, and different Spanish-speaking heritages; eg. Europe or South American.

Primary language is also recorded separately.

And nationality is recorded separately too.

@apalledandshocked not even simply annoying, I was sent for a medical test based on my race when I simply ticked 'mixed' on a form, a succession of doctors either didn't want to or didn't bother to check what ethnicity I actually am. They then assumed (incorrectly ) that I was from a section of the world that would be more likely to require these tests.

It was only at the hospital when the nurse went through why I was having the tests done that I was able to explain they'd got it all wrong. I then looked through my notes to find a variety of ethnicities in them all supposedly describing my race and all incorrect. Well 3 different nationalities to be precise!

@CirclesWithinCircles

*Coronawireo3ss" that was breathtaking, in all the wrong ways.

I assume you've confused the OP with me, because I'm mixed Chinese and white, and the OP is mixed Japanese and white. You do realise there is a difference?... Its like you were white British and I said you were Portuguese, or Estonian, or Greek...

You really think that racism against people who don't have dark skin isn't so serious, don't you? You simply cannot conceptualise, despite it being explained multiple times, that there are more than 2 races in the world other than black and white, and because of that, there are other features that identify race other than akin colour.

I don't really know how to address that level of obstinacy y and diminishing of people's direct expe riences of racism.

You find it “breathtaking” that I agree with people who say there may be different severities of racism according to whether people are more obviously of a different race?

@circleswithincircles
And yes I know there’s a difference between China and Japan. The OP however said that people assumed she was Chinese.
But debate on this level, where the OP hasn’t even been read properly and anyone who even mildly disagrees with you is “breathtaking” are fairly pointless.

Debates

I am Jewish of mostly Moroccan heritage but I look white. I have been told I have no right to speak about my experience of racism because white people don’t experience racism. Even when I explained that I was talking about antisemitism, I was told that talking about that distracts from the struggle people of colour experience. But I was also told I don’t have the right to talk about being from an African background because Morocco isn’t really African, so perhaps it’s just stupidity.

I have been told

Why do all these people (including OP's Tick Tock users) feel entitled to dictate to others what they are or what they are allowed to say or think even? It needs to stop

Ytrigging based on the logic of Morocco not really being African then about 6th of the population of the continent don’t count (Maghreb + Egypt). I must tell DH that despite having been born in the largest country in Africa he isn’t African. I think you were on to something with the stupidity thought.

Black Africans, so I’m told don’t consider Arabs to be real Africans as they believe them to be, along with white Africans to be invaders. Many North Africans consider themselves to originate from Yemen. However I’m not sure how true that is. Certainly the population of a country like Algeria has a very diverse gene pool, no doubt a blend of African, European middle eastern genes mixed with the native population. Siblings can look completely different even when both their parents are cousins!

@stairway I dont think you can state that about all "black africans" anyway (not saying you did, but whoever told you). Its a very big place. And Gadaffi (himself North African) was at one point quite keen on pan-Africanism and forming alliances (not saying this wasnt though self-interest or that he was a nice person obs). I think sometimes people (probably also stupid Tik-Tok users) will hear one African/one Jewish/one Moroccan etc person say something and forever afterwards be the authority on what Africans/Jewish people/Moroccans think. Which itself is a deeply unhelpful type of stupidity.

Im white irish in the uk or as we call it here 'white'. I queried why they needed to know if i was white or white irish and i was told it was to do with cystic fibrosis.

Same logic would apply to sickel cell anaemia i guess but i dont know how it helps them really.

[quote shinytrees]@apalledandshocked not even simply annoying, I was sent for a medical test based on my race when I simply ticked 'mixed' on a form, a succession of doctors either didn't want to or didn't bother to check what ethnicity I actually am. They then assumed (incorrectly ) that I was from a section of the world that would be more likely to require these tests.

It was only at the hospital when the nurse went through why I was having the tests done that I was able to explain they'd got it all wrong. I then looked through my notes to find a variety of ethnicities in them all supposedly describing my race and all incorrect. Well 3 different nationalities to be precise![/quote]
Thats really bad. And a really good example of why actually being able to talk about the complexities of race and identity really matters sometimes.

No obviously not all black africans, this is just from what my Algerian husband has said. There does seem a separation from of North Africans from other Africans. Culturally very different.

[quote Coronawireless]@circleswithincircles
And yes I know there’s a difference between China and Japan. The OP however said that people assumed she was Chinese.
But debate on this level, where the OP hasn’t even been read properly and anyone who even mildly disagrees with you is “breathtaking” are fairly pointless.[/quote]
Yes I do. It's incredibly offensive to assume that racism is "less severe" for any race other than black.

@Coronawireless
Well in your OP you seem to swing between two points. One is that you look Chinese and had people make comments to about that. On the other hand you say you are “white passing” and your phenotype is white.
If the latter, or if most people do not harass you because of your race, then having a few comments here and there does not equate to what many people have to put up with on a daily basis, including being refused a job or a place to live and being physically assaulted

1. Japanese not Chinese
2. In my original post I said SOMEONE ELSE decided I was white passing, I’ve never described myself that way. I have no idea what my phenotype is, someone else said it was white. I can’t see how it can be when I have many Asian features, but I don’t especially care.
3. I come from a small town where just about everyone I was growing up with knew my ethnicity as I was the only non-white kid in my school so it’s sort of irrelevant if I look Japanese, they bullied me for it anyway.
4. I have a Japanese name, so even before seeing me, jobs will know, so again, even if I do ‘look white’ then my name and personal details show I am not.
5. I don’t want to play competitive racism, but I’ve had more than a few comments (as I mentioned in my op) about my race, I’ve been assaulted. Is that good enough for you?

The point of my post was that this guy decided based on ONE photo of me, from a side angle that I look white and made a huge number of assumptions about my life based on it. But also, that even if I am ‘white passing’ to some people, that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to talk about race issues.

I dunno how you read in my OP so incorrectly, but I hope that clears It up for you.

@Coronawireless...you really can’t see that someone with lighter skin might suffer racism as much as someone darker depending on circumstances?
Being the ‘only ch**k in the village’ is going to be very different from being a dark black person in a multicultural city where there lots of people who look like you.

[quote OwlBeThere]@Coronawireless...you really can’t see that someone with lighter skin might suffer racism as much as someone darker depending on circumstances?
Being the ‘only ch**k in the village’ is going to be very different from being a dark black person in a multicultural city where there lots of people who look like you.[/quote]
I think that’s fair but like for like what do you think would happen to “the only c*k in the village” if there was “the only black person in the village” too?

@stairway

No obviously not all black africans, this is just from what my Algerian husband has said. There does seem a separation from of North Africans from other Africans. Culturally very different.

However, I think you will find if you speak to non-Arab Africans that it is the Arabs that behave towards them like white invaders. Different perspectives.

@Faultymain5

From my experience of having lived in a not very diverse village, they both receive racist abuse equally. Ds is half East Asian, his friend half black carribean, both had awful issues with racist bullying at school, both parents also faced racist abuse, although my dh seemed to get more as an East Asian man, as people saw him, a 5’7 slim Japanese man, as an easier target than a 6’2 black man. That’s in terms of comments/abuse on the streets though. I’m sure ds’s friend’s dad faced far more discrimination with structural racism than my dh (more likely to get pulled over by the police, more likely to be stop and searched, more likely to be accused of being involved in county lines for simply driving through the local dodgy estate. The list goes on.)

Anyway. In terms of racist abuse, the presence of a black person in the theoretical village does not negate the abuse received by the only asian/east asian in the village.

No one said it does. I’m talking about the oddity of comparing village life to a metropolis when (for whatever reason), we’re comparing who has it worse.

Also I’m a bit at “like for like” because it’s not a competition.

Ds would come home from school wanting to rip his skin off, wanting to kill himself at the worst points. Is that not enough? Because the colour of his skin is “lighter” than his black classmate, somehow the racism doesn’t count?

Why is it an oddity?

@newstart1337
How many generations have to pass before you stop being defined by your descendants skin colour and you start being defined by your actual skin colour?

People shouldn’t be defined by their skin colour what exactly do you mean? You need to be referred to by the race you actually are not how light or dark you are that doesn’t mean it’s correct if your going by the shade of someone’s skin as skin colour varies!!