To give debt collectors my relatives address?

[Famproblems1]

NC, I'll try to keep it short.

5 years ago I let a younger relative come and stay with me temporarily when she was leaving domestic violence in another part of the country, she stayed with me for approx 12 months before moving on into a place of her own with her small children.

During the course of that relationship alot of debt was accumulated before she left age 20..she says the majority of this was due to the partner taking out contract phones and payday loans using her details and that she had no control of her finances.

Despite the fact she doesn't live here anymore and hasn't for almost 4 years I'm still getting letters here addressed to her from debt collectors asking for money and to be honest I'm tired of it and want no part of it.

Obviously I've mentioned this to her a number of times and she claims she has contacted the companies and told them not to send anything else to my address as she doesn't live here. If that's true, which is debatable, then they clearly haven't listened.

I'm aware that she's paying a token sum to a couple of different companies on a monthly basis so she she says she's doing what she can but claims to be out of her depth and can only work part time. She has refused to give her address to these people citing that she's vulnerable with MH problems and has her disabled child there.

I received another letter through the door for her this morning after a peaceful couple of months, low and behold a debt collection company demanding £300 odd and I've reached the end of my rope.

We spoke over the phone which ended in something of a heated discussion because I said I'm going to give them her new address as I'm sick of the letters coming here and don't want debt collectors turning up here trying to take control of my property.

She then spoke to her mother who called me and implied I was being cruel.

So WIBU to do exactly that?

You're on definitely dodgy grounds opening her bank statements. Plus the not declaring liability for CT thing.

But other than that, it's easy enough to see the letters off.

This will all be ramping up because the debts are close to statute barred. So the original companies know they are highly unlikely to ever see their money. So they have sold on the debts for pennies in the pound to DCAs.

Who will harass 100 people because if 10 are scared into paying it's worth their while. It's a numbers game.

So to stop it, you call them up & say 'yes, Jo Bloggs stayed with me briefly in 2017, no, I don't know where she is now as we no longer speak. I'm Mary Bloggs, the sole occupant & I can prove it, so you'd be wasting your time & money sending out any more letters/sending an agent, as I am not my acquaintance, I can't help you trace her, & I have no interest in or liability for her financial affairs.'

They'll possibly huff a bit down the phone, possibly tell you they will have to send an agent out to check or they need written details from you (bullshit) but then they'll write it off (or possibly sell it down the chain to another even less reputable DCA for even fewer pennies in the pound).

But they will give up, because they rely on low hanging fruit. If you tell them to bugger off, they will add you to the 90% of 'accounts' they've hit a dead end with - or whatever percentage it is - & chase after the 10% where the person actually is still at the named address, & in a position to pay, & not bloody minded enough to stall them for 2 more years.

I agree it's a PITA for you, but it's almost certainly a matter of one phone call to get them off your backs.

& frankly, if you give them your DN's address, most likely she will RTS them & then they'll come back to you because you are the mug who has shown you are willing to enter into correspondence with them/give them info. They'll think there's a chance if you are willing to do that, you just might pay to get rid. After all, you're obviously in contact with your relative, right? Since you just gave them her address...whereas if you'd told them it's nothing to do with you, they're more likely to give up. If it's a significant amount they might try to trace your DN by other means.

The original creditors are never going to see a penny more at this point. You're being chased by chancers, who have precious few powers over your DN & none over you.

Just ring them up & get them told.

Another one suggesting just ring and say she doesnt live there. No need to give her address..or stick letters back in post " not known at this address"..all the letters will have return address on the back of envelope..

If your sister is that bothered she could help pay the debt off instead of shouting at you.

Some people are piss takers and expect other people to carry them forever. This isnt the OPs problem, she shouldn't have to chase round calling anyone. The niece has known about the issue for 4 years and is happy for it to continue, but also is capable of complaining about opened mail. Just provide them with her address so she can focus her mind on the real issue, which is her debt.

@poptartsarefood

Some people are piss takers and expect other people to carry them forever. This isnt the OPs problem, she shouldn't have to chase round calling anyone. The niece has known about the issue for 4 years and is happy for it to continue, but also is capable of complaining about opened mail. Just provide them with her address so she can focus her mind on the real issue, which is her debt.

It's no more effort to phone a people and say that she is not at the address than it is to start giving the new address out. She also hasn't bothered to return the post.

@poptartsarefood

Some people are piss takers and expect other people to carry them forever. This isnt the OPs problem, she shouldn't have to chase round calling anyone. The niece has known about the issue for 4 years and is happy for it to continue, but also is capable of complaining about opened mail. Just provide them with her address so she can focus her mind on the real issue, which is her debt.

She doesn't have to chase around calling anyone, she just returns letters to sender which costs nothing. Many posters have already said that! If a debt collector knocks on the door, the person is not known or her whereabouts unknown. End of.

She doesn't want any debt collectors at her door and she doesn't want any more post for her niece at her house. It's up to the niece to sort it and she isn't because it's not affecting her. The niece is actually pretty selfish in this scenario and as someone said upthread, no good deed goes unpunished.

If the OP passes on the nieces address, both issues will stop and the niece can face up to her responsibilities. Debt isn't magic and it doesn't go away by doing nothing.

@poptartsarefood

She doesn't want any debt collectors at her door and she doesn't want any more post for her niece at her house. It's up to the niece to sort it and she isn't because it's not affecting her. The niece is actually pretty selfish in this scenario and as someone said upthread, no good deed goes unpunished. If the OP passes on the nieces address, both issues will stop and the niece can face up to her responsibilities. Debt isn't magic and it doesn't go away by doing nothing.

She doesn't need to pass the address on to stop issues . Debt collectors came to her door once 18 months ago and they may not have bothered to do if she had returned poster sender. All she has to do was say she had a lodger who no longer lived there and she didn't know where she'd gone. She also just needed to return post. It's no more effort to do that then it is to pass on addresses to everyone. The only reason for doing that is to be nasty.

@poptartsarefood

She doesn't want any debt collectors at her door and she doesn't want any more post for her niece at her house. It's up to the niece to sort it and she isn't because it's not affecting her. The niece is actually pretty selfish in this scenario and as someone said upthread, no good deed goes unpunished. If the OP passes on the nieces address, both issues will stop and the niece can face up to her responsibilities. Debt isn't magic and it doesn't go away by doing nothing.

It does after six years (though some companies who have bought the debt do still try it on).

The op is hardly being grossly inconvenienced.

I have not and would never open a letter not addressed to me (unless accidentally which could happen in a pile of post), nor give someone else's address away. You just don't do that! I've had loads of odd post for others come to my house since I moved here mid 1990s (though not recently); I only once opened something accidentally which was a Christmas card for someone else with no address in it, so I threw it away. Everything else is returned to sender, including circulars for thermal underwear. That way the non-redirected post gradually ceases.

The OP shouldn't be inconvenienced at all. It's nice that everyone wants her to keep running errands and redirecting post indefinitely and maybe deal with the odd debt collector, but she doesn't want to and she doesn't have to.

The decent, adult thing to do would be for the adult niece to sort her issues and stop bringing shit to her aunt's doorstep.

The OP is definitely keen on punishing the niece for her debt. Was she not grateful enough for your help?

It’s very easy not to get involved just by sending letters back in the post and not giving the address to anyone at the door. Helping the debt collectors over your relative is pretty shitty.

Couldn't tell you for sure if she was really grateful for my help or not, she seldom answers the phone to me anymore unless it's important I don't think so personally no. Or at least that gratitude ended when she moved on.

I've invited her round for dinner on many occasions only to be told it's not convenient because of the kids, one has severe autistic so going places can be difficult but if you actually want to spend time with family you can always find a way.

Lockdown has made for convenient excuses as to why we couldn't meet up for coffee etc.

I just feel as though I was good for help at the time but now she is back on her own feet, debts aside, she can't be bothered to maintain a relationship.

So why should I continue to let myself get stressed out about these letters when nobody else is thinking of me?

@Famproblems1

She was staying here temporarily, I never planned to have her here long term so why would she need to be on my council tax bill?

She paid me a set amount every month for board and I handled my admin as I usually would.

Then you were liable for her CT since she was paying you to be there 🙄🙄 So u are happy to not pay or have her pay what is legally required but want to loan when you are getting a bit of post that is annoying.

Moan rather

They won't stop writing to your address until they're provided with another. They're unlikely to turn up unless they're high court as everyone knows they have pretty much no rights at this stage. It's not your problem. You did a very kind thing and she's taking advantage.

@Gooseygoosey12345

They won't stop writing to your address until they're provided with another. They're unlikely to turn up unless they're high court as everyone knows they have pretty much no rights at this stage. It's not your problem. You did a very kind thing and she's taking advantage.

Rubbish. What do you think happens when people move into new homes and the previous tenant had debts? They might not even know where they went to and even if they do, the debt collectors have no power to insist who aren't debtors provide addresses.

@Famproblems1

Couldn't tell you for sure if she was really grateful for my help or not, she seldom answers the phone to me anymore unless it's important I don't think so personally no. Or at least that gratitude ended when she moved on.

I've invited her round for dinner on many occasions only to be told it's not convenient because of the kids, one has severe autistic so going places can be difficult but if you actually want to spend time with family you can always find a way.

Lockdown has made for convenient excuses as to why we couldn't meet up for coffee etc.

I just feel as though I was good for help at the time but now she is back on her own feet, debts aside, she can't be bothered to maintain a relationship.

So why should I continue to let myself get stressed out about these letters when nobody else is thinking of me?

So basically you just want revenge because she is not being grateful enough. Why would you be stressed out about letters that have nothing to do with you? Just return to sender like everyone else does when they move into a house when the previous tenant has debts

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

And it’s illegal to open someone else’s post!

No it’s not.

So why should I continue to let myself get stressed out about these letters when nobody else is thinking of me?

Yes this is the question you should be asking yourself OP.

Why are you letting yourself get so stressed about this?

It has literally nothing to do with you at all.

If you can't be bothered to go to the postbox - after 5 years this is fair enough - just chuck the letters in the bin. That's 10 seconds of your day. Done. Like everyone else in the world has to do with junk mail. You seem to have built this up in your head to be something enormous, and that's the issue here.

‘ So why should I continue to let myself get stressed out about these letters when nobody else is thinking of me?’

That’s right, you are creating this stress.
Because all of this is actually about you.
Your sense of being used, ignored & ‘got at’ by the letters.
Your family may well be thinking of you but not in a way that you need to see or hear.

Easily due to strict COVID restrictions, few of us have seen family & friends, & unless we are adept at maintaining contact with them, many of us have become isolated & may feel very lonely.

As you say, you do speak with your sister & niece, but communication quickly breaks down particularly when you bring up the subject of the letters. As a tactic to build rapport with your family, this really is not working for you.

You did your sister & niece an honest massive favour by putting her family up as she escaped from DA & found her feet. They probably are very grateful. You did good but that was a gift freely given & you should not expect anything by return.

It seems to me that you are gnawing some grievances in COVID isolation. All too easy for any of us to do & how we long for lockdown to lift so we can live with everyday ease.

For your own sake, desist from opening letters that are nothing to do with you - you are nagging a loose tooth. Either bin the letters or return unopened marked ‘not known at this address’. Every time you do this you are taking back some control.

Numerous posters have confirmed this proposal & some have kindly explained the debt collection process to assure you of what may/may not happen to you.

People are not perfect & we all fuck up at times. Not everyone has a well ordered life & it can be very frustrating & draining to be on the edges of chaotic people’s lives. But we can keep our boundaries strong & minds clear of other peoples clutter. It takes practice.

Start by sending the letters back as an everyday practice.
Accept that your niece is doing the best she can. She & yr sister may not know that orgs like CAP are available.

A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him.

Yes, it is.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/26/part/V/crossheading/offences-of-interfering-with-the-mail#:~:text=84%20Interfering%20with%20the%20mail,U.K.&text=(3)A%20person%20commits%20an,been%20incorrectly%20delivered%20to%20him.

The debt letters are easily dealt with, many people have posted the advice to ring them or RTS the letters.

Your bigger issue is that she is still managing her bank account from your address. Until you stop that you’ll never stop the rest from coming.

If it was me I’d give her a week to sort the bank or I will. If she doesn’t then take the statement and your ID and proof of address
into a branch. As soon as they know that someone else is opening her statements they will stop sending stuff and take the address off.

Her bank statements don't come here any longer but did for quite a period of time after she moved on.

She doesn't have a driver's licence or a passport and was, apparently, told that a birth certificate wasn't sufficient to change her address in branch as that particular bank had tightened the process making it harder for fraudsters, or anybody else, to gain access to accounts and change information.

So I continued to receive her bank statements here for quite a while. Yes I opened some. No I didn't do anything malicious with them.

Her bank is no longer registered to my address as eventually she managed to change the address thank god.

@UniversalAunt

‘ So why should I continue to let myself get stressed out about these letters when nobody else is thinking of me?’

That’s right, you are creating this stress.
Because all of this is actually about you.
Your sense of being used, ignored & ‘got at’ by the letters.
Your family may well be thinking of you but not in a way that you need to see or hear.

Easily due to strict COVID restrictions, few of us have seen family & friends, & unless we are adept at maintaining contact with them, many of us have become isolated & may feel very lonely.

As you say, you do speak with your sister & niece, but communication quickly breaks down particularly when you bring up the subject of the letters. As a tactic to build rapport with your family, this really is not working for you.

You did your sister & niece an honest massive favour by putting her family up as she escaped from DA & found her feet. They probably are very grateful. You did good but that was a gift freely given & you should not expect anything by return.

It seems to me that you are gnawing some grievances in COVID isolation. All too easy for any of us to do & how we long for lockdown to lift so we can live with everyday ease.

For your own sake, desist from opening letters that are nothing to do with you - you are nagging a loose tooth. Either bin the letters or return unopened marked ‘not known at this address’. Every time you do this you are taking back some control.

Numerous posters have confirmed this proposal & some have kindly explained the debt collection process to assure you of what may/may not happen to you.

People are not perfect & we all fuck up at times. Not everyone has a well ordered life & it can be very frustrating & draining to be on the edges of chaotic people’s lives. But we can keep our boundaries strong & minds clear of other peoples clutter. It takes practice.

Start by sending the letters back as an everyday practice.
Accept that your niece is doing the best she can. She & yr sister may not know that orgs like CAP are available.

I see where you are coming from in parts but there has been points throughout the various lockdowns where you've been able to meet with another household outdoors, and the guidelines haven't stopped her seeing her mother even when we weren't supposed to be mixing households at all.

It does feel to me like I have had my uses and now she no longer needs a place to stay and has got something of a normal life back she can't be bothered to maintain a relationship at all. It does make me feel used and unappreciated, yes.

I still don't think her attitude to the debt collectors is acceptable regardless.

Getting someone else's post is mildly annoying but that doesn't mean you can open it. Return to sender or forward to your family member.