to feel sick at this

[justiceleague]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9447125/Care-home-worker-46-beaten-pulp-stepping-save-11-year-old-son-bullies.html

I am absolutely sickened by this. I honestly despair at the world now - I know that there have always been awful people but please tell me I am not alone in feeling like we are being overrun by absolute vile creatures who get away without consequences for anything and that it is just getting worse

Beating a man into a coma and they get released on bail? Honestly have had enough, the world is just awful

@Newrumpus

Newrumpus “almost murdering an innocent man. Which we do actually know they are guilty of, because they have been charged with it”

Good grief. The article says arrested, I think, not charged. But even if they have been charged that doesn’t mean they are guilty. They would either have to plead guilty or be found guilty in a court in order to be sentenced. If there is sufficient evidence they will be charged and if convicted they will be punished. Violent crimes like this are not often treated very leniently although the age of the perpetrators will be taken into account, obviously.
What do you mean "good greif" confused. It says charged. They have been charged with a couple of different things. They may not be found guilty, which would be ridiculous because they DID actually almost kill a man. He may yet still die. If be does I hope they are charged with murder, not man slaughter, actual murder. What it is you find so shocking about my opinion? Are you of the belief they are innocent? Why do you think me saying they are guilty of this crime is so shocking confused

Can you quote the details of the charges then
as the section I read said they had been arrested, not charged. What I mean by good grief is that I am shocked at your assertion that you know they are guilty because they have been charged. A charge is not the same thing as a guilty verdict. There is a process of law to follow and it must be adhered to no matter how abhorrent the alleged crime. Indeed, the more serious and shocking the offence, the more important it is to follow correct procedure. If there is evidence for an attempted murder charge, they will be charged but the evidence threshold must be met. It is not your opinion that matters as to whether or not they are guilty.

Actually you're right, they haven't been charged yet. I was taking the word of another poster who was determined they had been charged, and was jumping down my throat to try and point out how thick I was. Should have gone back to double check, buy there is no doubt the did it, they will be found guilty of something, wether its attempted murder, murder, greivious bodily harm, manslaughter. Although I'm not sure if they could charge them with man slaughter after they have been arrested for attempted murder 🤔.
Do you doubt they did actually almost kill that man? Do you think the man, his son, any witnesses that were there, and the police have all got it wrong?

If they have been arrested for attempted murder and the victim were to die, they would likely be charged with murder. They could subsequently be found guilty of manslaughter. I sincerely hope this chap recovers and suitable charges are brought where appropriate.

“ Do you doubt they did actually almost kill that man? Do you think the man, his son, any witnesses that were there, and the police have all got it wrong?”

I wasn’t there so I do not know what happened. But it is irrelevant what I think and doubt. You and I cannot decide whether they are guilty or not.

Wearywithteens

Well I can’t argue that.

• argue with that.

I wasn’t there so I do not know what happened. But it is irrelevant what I think and doubt. You and I cannot decide whether they are guilty or not.

I can decide to believe whatever I like . Even if they aren't found guilty (which is highly unlikely) I can still personally believe they are, and if I ended up on the jury at their trial, I would be in the group of people deciding if they were guilty.
Plenty of men are let off with rape because of lack of evidence etc. Doesn't mean they didn't commit the crime.

Strange that you think I can't have an opinion on something. Must be difficult living your life on the fence all the time. Always waiting to be told what to believe.

You stated that you knew they were guilty BECAUSE they had been charged. They have not been charged but even if they had been, that would not automatically make them guilty. Being charged and being guilty are not synonymous. Of course you can believe what you like but that doesn’t alter the law or the facts.

If you were still addressing me in the next post you are wide of the mark again. I don’t think that you can’t have opinions (but see above). I’m not sure how you inferred that I live my life on the fence and have to be told what to believe. Spoiling for a fight instead of understanding the points raised, I suspect.

Stories like this are what make me too scared to allow DS out on his own.

@Newrumpus

You stated that you knew they were guilty BECAUSE they had been charged. They have not been charged but even if they had been, that would not automatically make them guilty. Being charged and being guilty are not synonymous. Of course you can believe what you like but that doesn’t alter the law or the facts.

If you were still addressing me in the next post you are wide of the mark again. I don’t think that you can’t have opinions (but see above). I’m not sure how you inferred that I live my life on the fence and have to be told what to believe. Spoiling for a fight instead of understanding the points raised, I suspect.

And I don't know why you feel the need to keep telling me that being arrested or charged isn't the same as being found guilty. They are guilty, they will be charged and found guilty of something, we just don't know exactly what category it will fall under yet. They did beat that man almost to death, and as I said before he still might die. There is no doubt that they actually did do that . I don't know they are guilty because they have been charged, or arrested as another poster corrected. I know they are guilty because they are. You can tell me their not guilty until they have been found guilty in court all you like, bit it's bullshit.

Because you stated that you knew they were guilty BECAUSE they had been charged.

You can tell me their not guilty until they have been found guilty in court all you like, bit it's bullshit.

Fortunately, it doesn’t work like that.

Jesus 🙄 OK they're not guilty yet. Weird

People actually witnessed them attacking the man, but can't actually say they did it 😍

Not 😍, that 😂

Such a strange thread. Teenagers beat man to a pulp but we shouldn't be outraged because we don't know the facts (so the man just tripped over and sustained these injuries then) and they might have had a rough upbringing (which must make it ok to go and kick the living shit out of another human).

Bizarre.

How would the bleeding hearts feel if it were their son or husband in a coma?

There are some really disgusting people in the world. Ya clearly nbu OP.

and they might have had a rough upbringing (which must make it ok to go and kick the living shit out of another human).

No. This isn’t what the ‘bleeding hearts’ are saying. No one at any point on this thread has said ‘so it’s ok to go and kick the living shit’ out of someone. No one in their right mind would think this yet alone publicly say it!

The point is that they probably experienced trauma and abuse/neglect and there is a HUGE amount of evidence about the experience of ACEs and criminal behaviour. See the link I posted above. So... Society has failed them...AND they should have suitably serious consequences that will leave them 100% certain that this is not acceptable behaviour and that has the best chance of ensuring they won’t do it again or aren’t given an opportunity to do it again.

Again... seeking to understand what went wrong and why is not the same as saying ‘oh well that’s ok then’. The more we can understand what went wrong, the better able we are, as a society, to prevent it happening again.

It’s both/and, not either/or.

It is both appalling, horrific and abhorrent behaviour that needs to be prevented AND we need to understand what turns beautiful, innocent babies into young people that are capable of this so we can prevent it.

@Msmcc1212

and they might have had a rough upbringing (which must make it ok to go and kick the living shit out of another human).

No. This isn’t what the ‘bleeding hearts’ are saying. No one at any point on this thread has said ‘so it’s ok to go and kick the living shit’ out of someone. No one in their right mind would think this yet alone publicly say it!

The point is that they probably experienced trauma and abuse/neglect and there is a HUGE amount of evidence about the experience of ACEs and criminal behaviour. See the link I posted above. So... Society has failed them...AND they should have suitably serious consequences that will leave them 100% certain that this is not acceptable behaviour and that has the best chance of ensuring they won’t do it again or aren’t given an opportunity to do it again.

Again... seeking to understand what went wrong and why is not the same as saying ‘oh well that’s ok then’. The more we can understand what went wrong, the better able we are, as a society, to prevent it happening again.

It’s both/and, not either/or.

It is both appalling, horrific and abhorrent behaviour that needs to be prevented AND we need to understand what turns beautiful, innocent babies into young people that are capable of this so we can prevent it.

I'm bored of hearing those excuses to be honest. I grew up with a father who took drugs around me, constantly got into fights and did multiple stretches in prison. I never went out and beat someone up.

Oh, and my dad grew up in a loving home, an only child with 2 professional parents who doted on him.

Sometimes we have to take responsibility for our own behaviour and stop blaming everyone else for our own poor choices.

Whatever they are charged with, if convicted, I'm sure the sentence will be inadequate as is often the case, especially for vicious crimes committed by children. They'll be out and that poor man and his family will have to live with the physical / mental consequences for the rest of their lives. If the kids are doing that at their age, I doubt they'll grow up to be any better.

Absolutely fucking disgusting. Worst thing is, they won’t get a long sentence and I’m sorry, but if they think they’re old enough to act like billy big bollocks, they should be publicly named and shamed. Horrid little cunts!

One day, they’ll all pick on the wrong person and get the walloping the bloody deserve. When I have kids in the future, if I found out they’d behaved like absolute thugs and done this. I’d honestly disown them and give them the biggest bollocking of their lives!

It’s not all just young ones that are thugs though, there’s plenty of people of all different ages that are horrid human beings, that aren’t fit for society.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion not less outrage at the action, less outrage that they haven't gone through the justice system yet.

The OP is ranting that 'they will get away with it', what previous posters have pointed out is it hasn't gone to court yet.

If you are going to post it helps to read the full thread and the OP first.

Also agree with @Waxonwaxoff0 couldn’t give a fuck what type of upbringing you have, doesn’t give you the right to take it out on another human being. Sick to death of there always being an excuse of someone murdering or being a rapist because something traumatic happened to them.

Tough shit, happens daily to plenty of people, yet they know what happened to them was wrong so they don’t do it to other people. If they’re that fucked up, get help. Simple as!

As Waxon says, it isn't always down to the parents. Not everyone that commits crimes like this has had a violet or traumatic upbringing. There were 5 teenagers there. Do we really, honestly think they have all had such traumatic upbringings that they believe its OK to beat the living shit out of a man trying to stop them bullying his 11 year old child? Or is it more likely to be mob mentality, and trying to act like big men infront of their friends?

YANBU

MrsTumbletap where did I rant about it not having gone through the justice system yet? I think what the OP means is, she is outraged they have been allowed put on bail. They should be held in remand until they can be charged, not allowed back into society. Also, as I said, it's unlikely they will be given a sentence that reflects their crime. So yes, they will basically get away with it. They way rapists get away with it, and convicted child rapists can serve just 18 months in prison. Yes, our justice system is top notch.

Completely agree OP. The UK feels very unsafe these days, mainly because parents don't discipline their children enough and the justice system is weak.
Feel so sorry for this poor man and his family.