Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to feel sick at this

104 replies

justiceleague · 08/04/2021 12:19

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9447125/Care-home-worker-46-beaten-pulp-stepping-save-11-year-old-son-bullies.html

I am absolutely sickened by this. I honestly despair at the world now - I know that there have always been awful people but please tell me I am not alone in feeling like we are being overrun by absolute vile creatures who get away without consequences for anything and that it is just getting worse

Beating a man into a coma and they get released on bail? Honestly have had enough, the world is just awful

OP posts:
Lockheart · 08/04/2021 20:09

I wasn't aware I was being given a kicking, if it helps Wink

Msmcc1212 · 08/04/2021 20:12

I’m not angry at you OP but it is good to have a balance in what you read and take in. Just focussing on the worst stuff isn’t good for us. The Daily Mail and other tabloids seek to create strong negative emotions in us. It’s our choice whether we engage with it or not.

There are loads of lovely folk out there doing lovely things. We just don’t hear about most of it. Important to remember that on the whole humans are ok mostly and sometimes even great. Only a small handful do such horrible things. Don’t despair of us is what I’m saying.

To be clear - I wasn’t suggesting a ‘slap on the hand’ and if the only way to keep people safe is to lock certain people away from society for long stretches of time/forever then that’s what we should do. Obviously.

However, blaming and name calling just lowers our tone and does nothing to make things better. Long prison sentences don’t work but can satisfy ‘our’ need for revenge and retribution - but are unlikely to be the catalyst for change we might want.

It needs to be BOTH - consequences that take into account the seriousness of the crime AND a societal focus on how to prevent these things happening as much as possible and the best way to do that is to focus on the early years.

It goes without saying that we all feel immense empathy for the victims but getting angry about it won’t help anyone.

It is, however, of course, a human response and shows our empathy that we do get angry about it. I choose to let that natural anger go, as it is damaging to my own well-being, and instead seek to understand and do what I can to help prevent such awfulness.

It’s not an either/or thing. We can understand those that commit horrible crimes and want to help them to not repeat them, at the same time as feeling appalled by the crime and feeling empathy for the victim.

Understanding why it happens doesn’t equate to condoning it.

Wearywithteens · 08/04/2021 20:16

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 08/04/2021 20:18

@ButIcantsitonleather, but they didn't know what I ment by "done with" and I ment I hope they are found guilty of, and given a sentence for attempted murder, not that they are charged with it, which I WAS aware they had been. As I said, perhaps lockheart should check before getting all uppity about something they haven't even confirmed. Just desperate to point out perceived errors.
I missed where the OP said that, but really can't see why it matters that much. The OP is just annoyed that people have been let back out into society after almost murdering an innocent man. Which we do actually know they are guilty of, because they have been charged with it.
I'm not the one derailing the thread, and of course I'll get annoyed when someone tries to belittle me on a thread for no reason but their attempt to look superior.
I don't think I said anyone felt sympathy for them, I am baffled by the amount of posters to point out "innocent until proven guilty" etc.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 08/04/2021 20:25

Oh and HTH!

VeniVidiWeeWee · 08/04/2021 20:29

@Lockhart

If you're going to be picky you really should learn how to spell demonstrandum.

jennytogether · 08/04/2021 20:30

I felt like this.. exactly as you describe... isn’t everything awful and getting worse... and I promise I stopped reading the Daily Mail and felt much better. They sell papers by drawing attention daily to the worst and rare occurrences in society. Find somewhere to get good news, maybe local news?

Lockheart · 08/04/2021 20:31

[quote VeniVidiWeeWee]@Lockhart

If you're going to be picky you really should learn how to spell demonstrandum.[/quote]
Do apologise for missing one letter out, my phone doesn't come with autocorrect for Latin.

Zakidoodles23 · 08/04/2021 20:33

I live in the town where the father was attacked and the teenagers involved are known to the police and have been for sometime. This was an escalation in their behaviour but not a surprise. It is just unbelievable that they were able to get to this point without intervention.

VeniVidiWeeWee · 08/04/2021 20:33

@Lockhart

If you could spell you wouldn't need autocorrect.

MintyMabel · 08/04/2021 21:02

Exactly - I'm a bit baffled why so many people are more angry at me for posting the article than they are at the contents of said article!

Hardly. Just because I’m not frothing at the mouth, baying for blood, doesn’t mean I’m not saddened by the incident. You also give yourself too much credit to think your post could do anything other than make me laugh at the ridiculousness of it.

As for what is wrong with a good old froth fest, well, as seen here, it makes people think a baying mob is a good solution to the problem. It encourages people to whinge and moan about how terrible things are (they aren’t) how crap the justice system is (it’s not great but not for the reasons bleated here) and how the perpetrators deserve long, harsh sentences (which are ineffective and pointless) A better solution is for people to get involved with the system to try to change it. But nobody is going to do that because screaming on mumsnet got it out of their system.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 08/04/2021 22:06

@MintyMabel

Exactly - I'm a bit baffled why so many people are more angry at me for posting the article than they are at the contents of said article!

Hardly. Just because I’m not frothing at the mouth, baying for blood, doesn’t mean I’m not saddened by the incident. You also give yourself too much credit to think your post could do anything other than make me laugh at the ridiculousness of it.

As for what is wrong with a good old froth fest, well, as seen here, it makes people think a baying mob is a good solution to the problem. It encourages people to whinge and moan about how terrible things are (they aren’t) how crap the justice system is (it’s not great but not for the reasons bleated here) and how the perpetrators deserve long, harsh sentences (which are ineffective and pointless) A better solution is for people to get involved with the system to try to change it. But nobody is going to do that because screaming on mumsnet got it out of their system.

Off you pop to help the criminals turn their lives around then. No?.....didn't think so. Just you keep lecturing and laughing at people who are disgusted by what has happened. Good for you 👍
thebillyotea · 08/04/2021 22:12

MintyMabel

are you always that rude and patronising, or are you related to the criminals in this case?

Msmcc1212 · 08/04/2021 23:08

Apologies Wearywithteens if you felt patronised. That wasn’t my intention. My intention was to share and own my perspective as it as an area of expertise I have. I won’t apologise for sharing my expertise but I do apologise if you felt patronised.

I don’t think it’s helpful to angrily blame and name call and I stand by that position. Again, I’m not patronising you - but I am directly saying that I don’t agree with your use of derogatory language to describe children/young people who have committed crimes - no matter how awful the crime. It’s just not helpful to anyone ...but ... at the same time it’s understandable - it’s my initial internal reaction too that I then have to rationalise - so I’m not judging you either. I’m just offering an alternative perspective to ‘they are inherently bad’ that you may or may not have considered.

Not many people do have a thorough and in-depth understanding of human brain development in the context of abuse and neglect. Not many people know that over 90% of people in prison have a history of abuse and trauma in childhood. Not many people know that human brain development doesn’t complete until our mid twenties. All of these things go some way towards helping us to understand what went wrong here.

Again - I’m not saying that means there shouldn’t be consequences to criminal behaviour. There should. But understanding why crime happens can help to prevent it.

What happened here was awful and the perpetrators need consequences that ensure they are left in doubt how serious it is and that give them the best chance of not repeating. The victims need every support and empathy available and my heart goes out to them.

Like a PP said - it should never have got to the point where the perpetrators were able to do this. It’s a failure of society, the system and the responsible adults in their life that it’s come to this. It’s terribly sad.

Msmcc1212 · 08/04/2021 23:15
  • in no doubt!
Tealightsandd · 08/04/2021 23:24

@Lockheart

They haven't got away without consequence. Released on bail does not mean "let off". Evidence has to be gathered and they will go to court. That process does not happen overnight. This happened less than a week ago. Did you expect them to be tried, convicted, and sentenced in the space of 5 days?

Less outrage, more critical thinking.

They shouldn't have been released on bail. It's nothing to do with being tried and convicted. The perpetrators are clearly very violent and a serious danger to the public. They therefore should've been remanded into custody for the protection of the public.
SchrodingersImmigrant · 08/04/2021 23:36

Maybe we wouldn't be so overrun if parents controlled their offsprings better.🤷🏻
Based on reports these idiots were under 15.

I think people greatly underestimate the number of useless parents. There are groups of 13- 14 year olds roaming streets and setting premises who do not play the ball on fire.
"Shs, you wanna get stabbed fgs" was one of the most memorable sentences for me. That was when bunch of under 15s kept making incredible mess in a bus and I was about to say something. I was warned by someone not to fgs.

Parents need to be made responsible

Newrumpus · 08/04/2021 23:43

“almost murdering an innocent man. Which we do actually know they are guilty of, because they have been charged with it”

Good grief. The article says arrested, I think, not charged. But even if they have been charged that doesn’t mean they are guilty. They would either have to plead guilty or be found guilty in a court in order to be sentenced. If there is sufficient evidence they will be charged and if convicted they will be punished. Violent crimes like this are not often treated very leniently although the age of the perpetrators will be taken into account, obviously.

Wearywithteens · 09/04/2021 00:25

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

TheFairyCaravan · 09/04/2021 00:37

That's literally what they've been charged with. Did you read the article?

Well you obviously didn’t read the article @Lockheart because they were arrested for attempted murder and grievous bodily harm with intent, but they’ve all been bailed. None them have been charged with anything.

Being angry about an innocent man, who has been left for dead, after he went to the aid of his son is not frothing. The poor child witnessed it. He must be in such a state of trauma. My heart goes out to the whole family.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 09/04/2021 03:03

@Newrumpus

“almost murdering an innocent man. Which we do actually know they are guilty of, because they have been charged with it”

Good grief. The article says arrested, I think, not charged. But even if they have been charged that doesn’t mean they are guilty. They would either have to plead guilty or be found guilty in a court in order to be sentenced. If there is sufficient evidence they will be charged and if convicted they will be punished. Violent crimes like this are not often treated very leniently although the age of the perpetrators will be taken into account, obviously.

What do you mean "good greif" Confused. It says charged. They have been charged with a couple of different things. They may not be found guilty, which would be ridiculous because they DID actually almost kill a man. He may yet still die. If be does I hope they are charged with murder, not man slaughter, actual murder. What it is you find so shocking about my opinion? Are you of the belief they are innocent? Why do you think me saying they are guilty of this crime is so shocking Confused
Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 09/04/2021 03:10

Well you obviously didn’t read the article@Lockheartbecause they were arrested for attempted murder and grievous bodily harm with intent, but they’ve all been bailed. None them have been charged with anything.

Well there you go then, turns out you were wrong after all. Not that I'm bothered because my opinion still stands. I hope they "get done with" attempted murder, or murder charged and found guilty of.

Newrumpus · 09/04/2021 08:17

Newrumpus
“almost murdering an innocent man. Which we do actually know they are guilty of, because they have been charged with it”

Good grief. The article says arrested, I think, not charged. But even if they have been charged that doesn’t mean they are guilty. They would either have to plead guilty or be found guilty in a court in order to be sentenced. If there is sufficient evidence they will be charged and if convicted they will be punished. Violent crimes like this are not often treated very leniently although the age of the perpetrators will be taken into account, obviously.
What do you mean "good greif" confused. It says charged. They have been charged with a couple of different things. They may not be found guilty, which would be ridiculous because they DID actually almost kill a man. He may yet still die. If be does I hope they are charged with murder, not man slaughter, actual murder. What it is you find so shocking about my opinion? Are you of the belief they are innocent? Why do you think me saying they are guilty of this crime is so shocking confused

Can you quote the details of the charges then
as the section I read said they had been arrested, not charged. What I mean by good grief is that I am shocked at your assertion that you know they are guilty because they have been charged. A charge is not the same thing as a guilty verdict. There is a process of law to follow and it must be adhered to no matter how abhorrent the alleged crime. Indeed, the more serious and shocking the offence, the more important it is to follow correct procedure. If there is evidence for an attempted murder charge, they will be charged but the evidence threshold must be met. It is not your opinion that matters as to whether or not they are guilty.

Msmcc1212 · 09/04/2021 08:22

Wearywithteens

As I said. I felt angry initially too and as I said, it’s a normal and empathetic reaction, but it’s pointless.

I also shared empathy for the victim and his family and said that the perpetrators need fitting consequences.

One can simultaneously understand the reasons and be appalled by the crime and feel awful for the victims. Please don’t cherry pick my words.

Stay unnecessarily angry at them and me of you want. I’ll leave you be.

skirk64 · 09/04/2021 08:46

The trouble is because of their ages they will only get a token sentence anyway. Really we shouldn't discriminate on age, we should give thugs like the ones in the original article the same sentence they would get if they were a few years older.

Swipe left for the next trending thread