To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

I have a team of people working for me, all from home. I think it depends on the nature of the work they do. I don't care what their childcare arrangements are as long as they get the work done that I expect them to do, to the required quality.

If they have children under 5, childcare for pre school children has been open for everyone throughout this lockdown (I am a childcare provider and have been working as normal)

Update your policy. Ours was done recently, 24 hours to sort out childcare child off school/has no carer, after that no pay. Obviously isolating due to covid is excluded from this

People will just lie, youre inviting them to do so.

You have to distinguish between ...

Unable to source childcare/bubbles bursting - and support employees in these circs

Unwilling to pay for childcare because of wfh - nip this in the bud fast.

I think it depends if they all have the option to return to the office full time or not. If you are still expecting them to work from home, then things are a bit more complicated.

My workplace is still expecting us to work from home, and whilst I do have childcare, it is my DH looking after my children at home after school as it was pre-pandemic. So invariably they may distract me at times as my house is a standard 3 bed semi and I don't have a dedicated office. But that can't be helped.

I'm not sure how I would prove my childcare arrangements to my boss, and I'd be pretty pissed off if my boss said my children need to be looked after elsewhere when it is not my decision to work from home and I'd actually rather be in the office.

@Rukaya

Many organisations insisted on this pre-Covid So I hand you a letter saying I have childcare, that I wrote myself. How does that help you at all?

No they didn't. I have never worked anywhere where I was asked about my childcare arrangements for the very good reason that they are not stupid enough to ask directly discriminatory questions.

I think YANBU that employees should generally have childcare as they would in normal times, if it is open (e.g. nursery, preschools, school itself are open).

But... YABU if you expect childcare to be in place over the school holidays. Holiday clubs are not running in lots of areas and there just aren't the options parents usually take advantage of. Equally, afterschool and before school wraparound care is very patchy across the country, with many providers having not opened at all. Similarly, grandparent/family care is allowed under a childcare bubble but many grandparents are not yet feeling safe enough to offer this choice to working parents (or the parents do not want to risk putting willing grandparents at risk by accepting offers).

If they have children under 5, childcare for pre school children has been open for everyone throughout this lockdown (I am a childcare provider and have been working as normal)

No it hasn't

I completely agree that there are a lot of places where the childcare availability isn't back to normal yet so it's probably a bit early. But it's worth looking ahead and being clear about what the expectations will be, and what the trigger is for that whether it is a specific date, linked to level if restrictions, etc.

But I know many parents who have cancelled childcare which is open because they are wfh and therefore think they can avoid paying it. For some it won't be an issue as their work is more flexible but if you have client facing work needing done during the day that's a different matter.

People's pushing this too far will just result in companies ordering more people back to the office

In current circumstances YABU. Childcare options (including professional childcare such as holiday clubs/ school wraparound care/ nurseries) are dramatically reduced due to Covid. Schools are still working to a bubble system, so school children may be told to isolate with only a few hours notice. As a manager, you should be dealing with poor productivity/ client complaint issues on an individual basis.

In the long term, if and when working conditions return to normal , then It would be reasonable to have policies which set expectations around professionalism in work time when WFH, on such matters as core hours and client calls.

@Rukaya

Grandparents are largely vaccinated now and childcare bubbles have always been in place so there really is no excuse

Well theres the "excuse" of not having available or alive grandparents to do childcare, for a start

That's in reply to the many people On this thread that said they use grandparents for free
Childcare

I don't. I pay for before/after school
Childminder and my twins are due to start full time soon even though I'm WFH

But lots of parents think they are entitled and so take the piss

To be fair I did think nurseries/childminders had been open as normal since January - or at least until they were overrun by covid cases.

@notalwaysalondoner

Overall, YANBU. There is no way with a child under about 10 an adult can concentrate properly on work for an extended period of time unless another adult is supervising (and even 10 is pushing it unless they are pretty self-sufficient and mature, probably 12 is more realistic). Even half an hour of extra time having the child in the house will impact their work, as they'll be very interrupted by having to go pick up the child then go back to work for an extra half hour or whatever. And I think the point about childcare being expensive is irrelevant - that's not the company's problem, it's very unprofessional to use WFH as an excuse to save money at your company's expense.

I do think people's points here about availability of childcare not being back to normal may be fair, the trouble is, you can't look at each employee's school individually and assess if it has sufficient wraparound care etc. Certainly if they're in nursery they should be in nursery to allow a full 9-5 (or whatever) working day, not being picked up at 3 just because the parents are WFH.

That is pure bullshit. My 2 kids do not interrupt me. They know what they can and can't do whilst I am working and they don't even enter the room if I am on a call.

I'm in HR and my view is that you should focus on productivity. Either they can do the work, kids around or not, or they can't. If they can't then, kids or not, manage them appropriately. It's up to them if they have childcare.

This is a good point. Some people work better/worse from home regardless of children.

Could you contact those that are working less well and then review in 2 weeks time. If they are still working less efficiently then you could ask them to come back into the office if they can’t get wfh with children if they have any.

Hi we are still being pretty flexible until September because a lot of childcare and Family care is still all
Over the place - though
still definitely talking through individual performance issues now (and adapting and supporting). Beyond that think important to have a core Assumption about childcare in place of working which we have always had Because although you can always flex it protects the majority of people who are sensible from the odd one who isn’t. And maintains fairness (it is hard on a co worker if they are strapped for cash because they are paying for child care and someone else is muddling through, doing less in lots of subtle ways and saving the money). And this isn’t always a gender thing - would be pretty annoying if a worker and partner are both working 3 days per week with the salary impact to care for children and some one else is saying I can manage and earning full time. The policy is there to give everyone a baseline and so they know where they are and you can always manage around and flex from that. Also feels fairer to other staff without children or doing eldercare

@puffinkoala

To be fair I did think nurseries/childminders had been open as normal since January - or at least until they were overrun by covid cases.

It seems to have been about 50/50 here. I think some didn’t have the staff available to open and others chose not to.

I would say tentatively that YANBU, I am currently on annual leave (as I would have been in normal times) to look after my young school age children as they are not in school for Easter holidays. DH and I are both WFH full time atm and our DC are all under 8.

My work has in its policy that we can wfh with DC around if we or they have to isolate, also if childcare/school is closed or not available. If it's available, use childcare - this wouldn't apply for older children (ie middle school and above). This seems reasonable to me.

I think that if people are wfh with young DC and not using available childcare to save money that's not fair on their employers as you cannot work as efficiently, unless they are able to make up the time they are not working during the day while looking after DC elsewhere, like evenings and weekends. We are paid to do a job and ultimately you need to do the job well to justify getting paid (and staying employed).

The (selfish) thing for me is that WFH permanently has massively improved my life. I don't want anyone to take the piss so that this improvement in working life is taken away.

You can’t ask for proof of childcare. You’d have to ask all staff to declare if they have kids (including the men and those due to retire soon) and then ask all of them to prove their childcare (again, everyone)

Plus, as many others have stated, any policy like this at the moment would disproportionately effect women and as such be discriminatory.

OP when you said "young" you haven't distinguished between those who are pre-school age so can go to childminders and nurseries until 5/6pm, and those who are 5-8 years old who can't.

You need to have rules in place that ensure both are covered.

@Rukaya

If they have children under 5, childcare for pre school children has been open for everyone throughout this lockdown (I am a childcare provider and have been working as normal)

No it hasn't

You might have been working throughout but it's a sweeping statement to speak for the entire country! Childcare is like rocking horse shit where I live and I know I'm not alone there!

My work has in its policy that we can wfh with DC around if we or they have to isolate, also if childcare/school is closed or not available. If it's available, use childcare - this wouldn't apply for older children (ie middle school and above). This seems reasonable to me.

Yes same here and also seems reasonable to me.

Bear in mind, school bubbles will continue to burst and sometimes children will be required to self-isolate at short notice. Parents will need to keep their child at home whilst still working from home in these circumstances.

YANBU at all OP. I imagine those who say you are, are pisstaking similarly. It’s not enough that people are saving time and money on commuting by WFH but they want to save even more money on childcare and expect to be paid full whack whilst not doing their job properly!

Whilst schools were closed and parents were having to homeschool, it was unavoidable. Nurseries were open all the way through so pre school children should have been in there. If before and after school care is an issue, then staff should expect to reduce their hours and get paid accordingly. For school holidays like now, they should have taken holiday themselves although holiday clubs are running in our area. If parents are choosing not to put their children in nursery or school then they can’t work and should resign.

I have several colleagues like this and as someone who had to change career for less hours and lower pay due to childcare issues pre pandemic with absolutely no leeway. I think they’re cheeky fuckers quite frankly.

I don’t think it’s worth the energy or time to pursue it. You’d be better off focusing on their productivity and quality of work (then the ball is in their court if they need to make childcare arrangements to improve their work)

@MysticMeggy nurseries were most definitely not open all the way through!